Zone1 Unbelievers, Faith Is A Simple Test: To Find Out If You Are Teachable?

[JAG]

If it turns out that you are not teachable, then obviously you
know more than God knows and there will be no place for you
in God's Heaven.

Heaven can only have one Supreme Being.

A Supreme Being that will never consent to become a student
to be taught wisdom and truths by any of His fallen and very
sinful human creatures.

Humans who characteristically do things like democratically electing
Adolf Hitler to power . . .

. . . and who follow the Rev Jim Jones to Jonestown and drink the Kool Air
and near 1000 then lay down to die . . .

. . . and who follow David Koresh (Branch Dividians) 75 of 84 DIED ...

and the Heavens Gate Cult - 39 dead by suicide . . .

. . . then World War 1 the totally unnecessary war that killed
many millions and all for absolutely NOTHING . . .

So?

So why would God want to be taught by the likes of fallen corrupted
and in many cases totally INSANE humans?

Why put any faith in nutty insane dangerous human beings?

Just the opposite the . . .

Lord Jesus said, "Have faith in God." {Mark 11:22}

And you will for certain make a Free Will decision on that and you will
end up saying either:

(1) Yes I will have faith in God and allow God to teach me what
He wants me to know.

or you will end up saying:

{2) I will not. NO NO NO, I will NOT.
(and THAT leads to John 3:16's perish)

Thoughts?

JAG

[]

 

[Donald H]

If it turns out that you are not teachable, then obviously you
know more than God knows and there will be no place for you
in God's Heaven.

The trouble with your theory is in atheists not believing in a god and thus we don't accept that the Christians' god knows anything.

Therefore, I feel perfectly secure and comfortable in saying that I know more than the Christian's god.

I'm always open to learning but first I will ask for some proof of there being a god. We atheists don't accept that on claims of faith alone.

What does he know that we don't know?

We certainly do know that he's been proven wrong by science and fwiw, the Catholic church sold his entire farm when they accepted Darwinian evolution over his creation myth.

 

[Cougarbear]

The trouble with your theory is in atheists not believing in a god and thus we don't accept that the Christians' god knows anything.

Therefore, I feel perfectly secure and comfortable in saying that I know more than the Christian's god.

I'm always open to learning but first I will ask for some proof of there being a god. We atheists don't accept that on claims of faith alone.

What does he know that we don't know?

We certainly do know that he's been proven wrong by science and fwiw, the Catholic church sold his entire farm when they accepted Darwinian evolution over his creation myth.

There are faults on both sides of this argument. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the first principal of the Gospel. But, we are not saved through faith. We are saved through Grace. The question is what is this gift of Grace exactly? Jesus is Jehovah and said in Isaiah that "together with my dead body we all will rise up from the dead." The gift is that we will live again in the resurrection. This is that grace. Whether good or evil, we will receive our bodies back in the resurrection. We will not be left in the ground and our spirits left in spirit prison forever. Now, the place we shall reside after the resurrection does have to do with the level of faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There are 4 places for the raising of our corruptible bodies to the level of incorruptible bodies in the resurrection: In Heaven, First Corinthians chapter 15 states three degrees (mansions or levels, Celestial, Terrestrial, the glory of the stars (Telestial). The judgment to which level of glory depends upon several factors like the valiant level of your belief or testimony that God lives, Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and that the Holy Ghost bears this witness to us. To most, this requires faith. But, faith without good works is dead as James taught. Works can be how we treat our fellow human beings. Or, it could include the necessary ordinances required for entrance to the Celestial Glory or Kingdom like Baptism by Emersion in water, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by one with authority to do so and other required ordinance received by the knowledge of the Holy Ghost to name a few. By their fruits, ye shall know them. Does the work bless other or harm others? Does your thirst for destroying the faith of others harm or bless others? Then, there are those who even in front of the judgment bar of God, with the Father and Son present through the power of the Holy Ghost deny Jesus is the Son of the Father and is our Lord and Savior, the Christ (Messiah). Because of their evil and rejection of the Godhead, they will receive no glory of heaven but remain in Hell governed by Perdition or in other words, Satan (Lucifer) forever. Yet, they will find grace in their non-glorified eternal bodies that they have a resurrected body and Satan and his devils do not!

With your faulty logic and attitude, the Godhead knows the above and is in full control of our future living arrangements. Our earthly knowledge won't save us from our outcomes in the eternities unless we grow our faith through good heavenly works. Knowledge is good what interpreted and understood correctly as well. That includes both secular and biblical knowledge. For instance, I don't see the view that Genesis may teach that the earth is young and there was a worldwide flood is inherently evil or bad. The teachings of a traditional family is good. The teachings of the Lord as he fulfilled the lesser law of Moses and brought forth the higher law of Christ are very good in that we love one another. So what if science shows that with our level of knowledge that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. What we see and have to work with may not be the entire truth if other variables are presented on why we observe things the way we do today. What if God lives and the earth originated from another star and was place here messing up the way we calculate time and age of material in the earth? The change in cosmic rays, as one physicist said to me, may cause us to see the age of things much greater than they really are. Now, that would take great faith to believe this. And, I do. With God, nothing is possible. See, believers actually are the ones who keep open minds. Not atheists. One other mistake you made was believing that the Catholic Church is the church that has any authority to know the Gospel truths. It's not. So, that comment proved nothing. Thanks for reading...

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

. . and who follow David Koresh (Branch Dividians) 75 of 84 DIED

They didn't "die," they were MURDERED -- BURNED ALIVE -- by Janet Reno and Bill Clinton

 

[Donald H]

There are faults on both sides of this argument. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the first principal of the Gospel. But, we are not saved through faith. We are saved through Grace. The question is what is this gift of Grace exactly? Jesus is Jehovah and said in Isaiah that "together with my dead body we all will rise up from the dead." The gift is that we will live again in the resurrection. This is that grace. Whether good or evil, we will receive our bodies back in the resurrection. We will not be left in the ground and our spirits left in spirit prison forever. Now, the place we shall reside after the resurrection does have to do with the level of faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There are 4 places for the raising of our corruptible bodies to the level of incorruptible bodies in the resurrection: In Heaven, First Corinthians chapter 15 states three degrees (mansions or levels, Celestial, Terrestrial, the glory of the stars (Telestial). The judgment to which level of glory depends upon several factors like the valiant level of your belief or testimony that God lives, Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and that the Holy Ghost bears this witness to us. To most, this requires faith. But, faith without good works is dead as James taught. Works can be how we treat our fellow human beings. Or, it could include the necessary ordinances required for entrance to the Celestial Glory or Kingdom like Baptism by Emersion in water, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by one with authority to do so and other required ordinance received by the knowledge of the Holy Ghost to name a few. By their fruits, ye shall know them. Does the work bless other or harm others? Does your thirst for destroying the faith of others harm or bless others? Then, there are those who even in front of the judgment bar of God, with the Father and Son present through the power of the Holy Ghost deny Jesus is the Son of the Father and is our Lord and Savior, the Christ (Messiah). Because of their evil and rejection of the Godhead, they will receive no glory of heaven but remain in Hell governed by Perdition or in other words, Satan (Lucifer) forever. Yet, they will find grace in their non-glorified eternal bodies that they have a resurrected body and Satan and his devils do not!

With your faulty logic and attitude, the Godhead knows the above and is in full control of our future living arrangements. Our earthly knowledge won't save us from our outcomes in the eternities unless we grow our faith through good heavenly works. Knowledge is good what interpreted and understood correctly as well. That includes both secular and biblical knowledge. For instance, I don't see the view that Genesis may teach that the earth is young and there was a worldwide flood is inherently evil or bad. The teachings of a traditional family is good. The teachings of the Lord as he fulfilled the lesser law of Moses and brought forth the higher law of Christ are very good in that we love one another. So what if science shows that with our level of knowledge that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. What we see and have to work with may not be the entire truth if other variables are presented on why we observe things the way we do today. What if God lives and the earth originated from another star and was place here messing up the way we calculate time and age of material in the earth? The change in cosmic rays, as one physicist said to me, may cause us to see the age of things much greater than they really are. Now, that would take great faith to believe this. And, I do. With God, nothing is possible. See, believers actually are the ones who keep open minds. Not atheists. One other mistake you made was believing that the Catholic Church is the church that has any authority to know the Gospel truths. It's not. So, that comment proved nothing. Thanks for reading...

None of that provides any proof to an atheist, or for that matter to a Christian either. And I've already told you that faith alone doesn't convince me.

I'm still quite comfortable saying that I know more than the Christian's god, and the reason so is given.

 

[Donald H]

There are faults on both sides of this argument. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the first principal of the Gospel. But, we are not saved through faith. We are saved through Grace. The question is what is this gift of Grace exactly? Jesus is Jehovah and said in Isaiah that "together with my dead body we all will rise up from the dead." The gift is that we will live again in the resurrection. This is that grace. Whether good or evil, we will receive our bodies back in the resurrection. We will not be left in the ground and our spirits left in spirit prison forever. Now, the place we shall reside after the resurrection does have to do with the level of faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There are 4 places for the raising of our corruptible bodies to the level of incorruptible bodies in the resurrection: In Heaven, First Corinthians chapter 15 states three degrees (mansions or levels, Celestial, Terrestrial, the glory of the stars (Telestial). The judgment to which level of glory depends upon several factors like the valiant level of your belief or testimony that God lives, Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and that the Holy Ghost bears this witness to us. To most, this requires faith. But, faith without good works is dead as James taught. Works can be how we treat our fellow human beings. Or, it could include the necessary ordinances required for entrance to the Celestial Glory or Kingdom like Baptism by Emersion in water, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by one with authority to do so and other required ordinance received by the knowledge of the Holy Ghost to name a few. By their fruits, ye shall know them. Does the work bless other or harm others? Does your thirst for destroying the faith of others harm or bless others? Then, there are those who even in front of the judgment bar of God, with the Father and Son present through the power of the Holy Ghost deny Jesus is the Son of the Father and is our Lord and Savior, the Christ (Messiah). Because of their evil and rejection of the Godhead, they will receive no glory of heaven but remain in Hell governed by Perdition or in other words, Satan (Lucifer) forever. Yet, they will find grace in their non-glorified eternal bodies that they have a resurrected body and Satan and his devils do not!

With your faulty logic and attitude, the Godhead knows the above and is in full control of our future living arrangements. Our earthly knowledge won't save us from our outcomes in the eternities unless we grow our faith through good heavenly works. Knowledge is good what interpreted and understood correctly as well. That includes both secular and biblical knowledge. For instance, I don't see the view that Genesis may teach that the earth is young and there was a worldwide flood is inherently evil or bad. The teachings of a traditional family is good. The teachings of the Lord as he fulfilled the lesser law of Moses and brought forth the higher law of Christ are very good in that we love one another. So what if science shows that with our level of knowledge that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. What we see and have to work with may not be the entire truth if other variables are presented on why we observe things the way we do today. What if God lives and the earth originated from another star and was place here messing up the way we calculate time and age of material in the earth? The change in cosmic rays, as one physicist said to me, may cause us to see the age of things much greater than they really are. Now, that would take great faith to believe this. And, I do. With God, nothing is possible. See, believers actually are the ones who keep open minds. Not atheists. One other mistake you made was believing that the Catholic Church is the church that has any authority to know the Gospel truths. It's not. So, that comment proved nothing. Thanks for reading...

I hear your point on the Catholic church not being the only word. But I think they are leading the way toward as much enlightenment that can be possible in a modern world of science.
And I hear you on your church being able to move on from accepting genesis.

 

[luiza]

Complex and complicated matters require simple answers for simple minded people .

Cult christian mumbo jumbo then allows happy messages to keep the mind from thinking further .

That way you can control Sheeple in any way you wish.

 

[Donald H]

Complex and complicated matters require simple answers for simple minded people .

Cult christian mumbo jumbo then allows happy messages to keep the mind from thinking further .

That way you can control Sheeple in any way you wish.

The Catholic church has accepted Darwinian evolution. With that goes a rejection of the creation myths.

I'm anxious to hear the complicated an complex explanations for that!

It's going to have to be something more than what has been offered by our two Catholic reps. who insist that the bible is only 'rhetoric' while modern science if literal fact.

In my opinion, the only way forward for Christians is to reject modern science and turn back to creation.

However, I'm expecting and am entirely open to some creative thinking!

 

[ding]

With that goes a rejection of the creation myths.

Incorrect. It compliments it.

We know the universe was created from nothing. It literally popped into existence and started to expand and cool.

In it's simplest form the first two chapters of Genesis tells us in allegorical fashion that God created existence and that the world ancient men lived in was part of a process and not created all at once. And that man AROSE from that creation. That doesn't compete with the theory of BIOLOGICAL evolution, it compliments the theory of BIOLOGICAL evolution.

 

[Donald H]

Incorrect. It compliments it.

We know the universe was created from nothing. It literally popped into existence and started to expand and cool.

No, we don't know that and that's not even consistent with your religious beliefs.

In it's simplest form the first two chapters of Genesis tells us in allegorical fashion that God created existence and that the world ancient men lived in was part of a process and not created all at once. And that man AROSE from that creation. That doesn't compete with the theory of BIOLOGICAL evolution, it compliments the theory of BIOLOGICAL evolution.

In fact Genesis gets it all wrong and therefore some wild interpretation of what it says has to be invented. But both of us have already agreed that the bible can't be taken literally.

Have you now rejected the multiverse theory.

There is a popular theory that the universe always existed

 

[Cougarbear]

None of that provides any proof to an atheist, or for that matter to a Christian either. And I've already told you that faith alone doesn't convince me.

I'm still quite comfortable saying that I know more than the Christian's god, and the reason so is given.

What you are saying is you are god. If you are god, then you know everything.. And, you don't. Science is not constant in knowledge or understanding. I would say that in recent years, "science" is trying to be come constant and tell everyone that they cannot dispute science. Even an honest scientist would not agree with you. Atheists (scientists) are more and more developing their own religious ideology to which no one is to reject their ideology. Fauci is a great example of this. Al Gore is another in the area of global warming. Tyranny has entered into the science realm and destroying science. There's no reason for science to compete against God. For centuries, it did not. Yet, here you are attempting to do just that.

 

[Cougarbear]

I hear your point on the Catholic church not being the only word. But I think they are leading the way toward as much enlightenment that can be possible in a modern world of science.
And I hear you on your church being able to move on from accepting genesis.

With that said, both churches aren't rejecting Genesis or God either. My opinion is that these are areas that God is not going to answer at this time. It's one of those areas that challenges one's faith and testimony. I'm one who is still valiant in my Testimony of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Personally, I've received witness to this. But, I also know that the written word has challenges as it has been added to and subtracted from their original writings through translations and alterations by leaders in Church history. It's up to each person to gain their own testimonies of what is true and what is not with the written word and logic and reasoning as well with our secular knowledge as well.

 

[Donald H]

What you are saying is you are god.

No, dog forbid! I have said that I know more than a fictitious imagined god.

If you are god, then you know everything.. And, you don't. Science is not constant in knowledge or understanding. I would say that in recent years, "science" is trying to be come constant and tell everyone that they cannot dispute science. Even an honest scientist would not agree with you.

Nobody is telling you that you can't dispute, but I will tell you that you're going to have to accept responsibility for your denialism.

Atheists (scientists) are more and more developing their own religious ideology to which no one is to reject their ideology. Fauci is a great example of this. Al Gore is another in the area of global warming. Tyranny has entered into the science realm and destroying science. There's no reason for science to compete against God. For centuries, it did not. Yet, here you are attempting to do just that.

Atheists, by definition, aren't competing against any of the gods.
I can't address you point when you turn to a scattergun approach to condemning so many.

 

[ding]

No, we don't know that and that's not even consistent with your religious beliefs.

We do know that. It's just science.

But you might as well be admitting that if the universe were created from nothing - which it was - God must have created it. Because you would have no other reason to reject the science.

 

[ding]

In fact Genesis gets it all wrong and therefore some wild interpretation of what it says has to be invented. But both of us have already agreed that the bible can't be taken literally.

Have you now rejected the multiverse theory.

There is a popular theory that the universe always existed

Actually it doesn't get it wrong at all. If it did you would explain hopw it got it wrong rather than just saying it got it wrong.

And nothing in the account of Genesis would preclude multi verses at all.

No one believes the universe is eternal universe into the past except for atheists who understand the universe being created implies there was a creator. Which is the only reason they reject the mainstream science.

 

[Cougarbear]

No, dog forbid! I have said that I know more than a fictitious imagined god.

Nobody is telling you that you can't dispute, but I will tell you that you're going to have to accept responsibility for your denialism.

Atheists, by definition, aren't competing against any of the gods.
I can't address you point when you turn to a scattergun approach to condemning so many.

You also have to accept responsibility for your denialism of almighty and all-knowing God.
Yes, by definition atheists aren't competing against God. However, how atheists conduct themselves with respect to God is a different story. Many atheists today are turning their movement into a religious ideology of tyranny over those who believe in their God. In many instances as much as Satanists are doing now. Watch the Grammy's? There is evil in the world whether you want to admit this or not. And, it's catching.

 

[Donald H]

You also have to accept responsibility for your denialism of almighty and all-knowing God.
Yes, by definition atheists aren't competing against God. However, how atheists conduct themselves with respect to God is a different story. Many atheists today are turning their movement into a religious ideology of tyranny over those who believe in their God. In many instances as much as Satanists are doing now. Watch the Grammy's? There is evil in the world whether you want to admit this or not. And, it's catching.

The only thing atheists have in common with each other is them not believing there is a god.

I'm an atheist who doesn't conduct myself in any way that has something to do with any of the thousands of gods.

 

[ding]

The only thing atheists have in common with each other is them not believing there is a god.

I'm an atheist who doesn't conduct myself in any way that has something to do with any of the thousands of gods.

Not true. Atheism proceeds on the basis that the needs of individuals and society in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs and primitive instincts. Atheists see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Atheists believe that love is only an elctro-chemical reaction in the brain.

 

[Donald H]

Actually it doesn't get it wrong at all. If it did you would explain hopw it got it wrong rather than just saying it got it wrong.

Where would I start? How about all of it?

And nothing in the account of Genesis would preclude multi verses at all.

Is your 'multi verse' a typo or are you just being clever? Have you decided if you accept the mulltiverse theory yet?

No one believes the universe is eternal universe into the past except for atheists who understand the universe being created implies there was a creator. Which is the only reason they reject the mainstream science.

IF there was a creator then that implies that it didn't start from nothing.
I like the theory that the universe always existed and no creator had anything to do with starting it, or will have anything to do with ending it, if it does end.

 

[ding]

Where would I start? How about all of it?


Is your 'multi verse' a typo or are you just being clever? Have you decided if you accept the mulltiverse theory yet?


IF there was a creator then that implies that it didn't start from nothing.
I like the theory that the universe always existed and no creator had anything to do with starting it, or will have anything to do with ending it, if it does end.

"We must know how to combat religion..." Vladimir Lenin