UN Secretary General's Speech on Darfur, 2004

[Gunny]

http://www.crimesofwar.org/onnews/news-darfur.html

And below you will find listed what has been done about it since:

 

[CSM]

and you were expecting exactly what from the UN?

 

[archangel]

Kofi reminds me of the old 'Beatnick' generation... goatee and all...he would be a happy camper if he could sit in a 'Coffee' house and listen to Condi play the piano...along the lines of 'Sugar Shack' while Madeline Halfbright...receits poetry about the Sudan...he would sigh and say 'can't we all get along' while rolling another 'Refer'

 

[Gunny]

and you were expecting exactly what from the UN?

From them? Nothing.

I dragged it up because I keep wondering why WE aren't doing something. I don't care if France has so much invested in the gov't of Sudan they veto any proposal for military intervention anymore than I gave a damn about France voting against invading Iraq. The only countries France can pick on are their neo-colonies, and I wouldn't bet real money they'd win THAT.

In the meantime, an entire tribe of people are being wiped off the face of the earth while, as Edmund Burke said: "Good men do nothing."

 

[CSM]

From them? Nothing.

I dragged it up because I keep wondering why WE aren't doing something. I don't care if France has so much invested in the gov't of Sudan they veto any proposal for military intervention anymore than I gave a damn about France voting against invading Iraq. The only countries France can pick on are their neo-colonies, and I wouldn't bet real money they'd win THAT.

In the meantime, an entire tribe of people are being wiped off the face of the earth while, as Edmund Burke said: "Good men do nothing."

I'm with you. NATO AIR has been point man for a long time on this board on the very subject. I think he got tired of being ignored. Glad you picked up the flag.

 

[Gunny]

I'm with you. NATO AIR has been point man for a long time on this board on the very subject. I think he got tired of being ignored. Glad you picked up the flag.

Now if we could only get President Bush to pick up the flag.

 

[manu1959]

biggest messes since wwII off the top of my head

korea
indochina
iran iraq afganistan
east timo
darfur
somalia
want to add to the list?

answer this....how many were french colonies?

 

[archangel]

biggest messes since wwII off the top of my head

korea
indochina
iran iraq afganistan
east timo
darfur
somalia
want to add to the list?

answer this....how many were french colonies?

4? unless ya are talking about the French Foreign Legions outposts...then maybe all of the above!

 

[Gunny]

biggest messes since wwII off the top of my head

korea
indochina
iran iraq afganistan
east timo
darfur
somalia
want to add to the list?

answer this....how many were french colonies?

Eritrea and Djbouti

And you forgot the biggest debacle of all ...France itself.

 

[NATO AIR]

What is most tragic about Dar Fur is that we have the capability (not to send troops so much) to campaign in the media, in the corridors of power and in the streets in the world to make a difference on this. To shame a "moderate" Arab regime like Jordan or Saudi Arabia (or even one of the Gulf States) into publicly criticizing Sudan or refusing to back it at the Arab League would have incredible domino effects, giving the Chinese and Russians the carte blanche to pummel Sudan's leadership behind the scenes, something they cannot do now for fear of upsetting client states (for the Russians) and oil suppliers (for the Chinese).

That and after reading Robert Young Pelton's "License To Kill: Private Military Contractors in the War on Terror", I fully support the US pressuring the AU and UN to accept a Blackwater divison in Dar Fur to help secure relief agencies and certain key refugee camps.

 

[Annie]

I agree with Gunny and CSM regarding Nato's take on the Darfur and other hot spots. He's done a lot to call attention to these godforsaken areas, not only on the boards, also in his blog, and his attempts to volunteer.

As for the US, I think we should pull out of the UN, seriously, take our monies paid there and use them as a basis of setting up a coalition willing to help with advisement, support, etc., to these sorts of areas.

As for the humanitarian aid that the UN provides quite well, except of course when the administrators steal the money or the workers rape the victims, I think the US both public and private has shown an ability to give and respond outside the UN auspices.

 

[NATO AIR]

Thank you Kathianne.

The UN is rapidly losing all relevance for the US and becoming an exemplary vehicle for our enemies and rivals.

 

[Annie]

Thank you Kathianne.

The UN is rapidly losing all relevance for the US and becoming an exemplary vehicle for our enemies and rivals.

Exactly.

 

[NATO AIR]

Exactly.

At the same time though, we have lots to do to rebuild and restore our stock as a country and a force. A recalibration of the power structure is underway, if the US can be imaginative and reasonable in the coming years, we may yet win out.

I see important reasons for optimism in the growing maturity of Chinese, Indian, Brazillian and Japanese leaders, to say nothing of the future leaders of key states like South Africa, South Korea, Indonesia, etc. We ignore great potential by focusing on Europe and the Middle East.

 

[Annie]

At the same time though, we have lots to do to rebuild and restore our stock as a country and a force. A recalibration of the power structure is underway, if the US can be imaginative and reasonable in the coming years, we may yet win out.

I see important reasons for optimism in the growing maturity of Chinese, Indian, Brazillian and Japanese leaders, to say nothing of the future leaders of key states like South Africa, South Korea, Indonesia, etc. We ignore great potential by focusing on Europe and the Middle East.

I don't know of another nation on earth, that has helped so many 'rebuild' and gotten so little thanks, rather contempt by those that do nothing.

I agree on Japan, South Africa, the rest?

 

[NATO AIR]

I don't know of another nation on earth, that has helped so many 'rebuild' and gotten so little thanks, rather contempt by those that do nothing.

I agree on Japan, South Africa, the rest?

You want the short? Really, it comes down to us wanting to return to being a normal nation after the Berlin Wall fell. In the meantime, we lost our bearings, betrayed and abandoned relatively old and reliable friends based on a naive understanding of democracy and freedom (nations like Thailand and Pakistan that got left in the lurch) and ignored opportunity after opportunity, not only to preempt terrorists like Bin Laden but to change security and cultural understandings in places like Latin America, Africa, etc.

Indonesia has the world's largest Muslim population, and Islam is thriving on the fringes of its borders, from Indonesia to Senegal to India. We rightly condemn the stupidity of Muslim protesters and the double standards, but yet we do nothing to empower locals there who have preached a relatively tolerant and modern version of Islam for decades only to find it losing ground to the Saudi Wahabbi campaign of fundamentalism. Its not about democracy, its about rule of law, open markets and jobs. Democracy comes along, but again, the rule of law, security, trade, etc, this is more important.

 

[Annie]

You want the short? Really, it comes down to us wanting to return to being a normal nation after the Berlin Wall fell. In the meantime, we lost our bearings, betrayed and abandoned relatively old and reliable friends based on a naive understanding of democracy and freedom (nations like Thailand and Pakistan that got left in the lurch) and ignored opportunity after opportunity, not only to preempt terrorists like Bin Laden but to change security and cultural understandings in places like Latin America, Africa, etc.

Indonesia has the world's largest Muslim population, and Islam is thriving on the fringes of its borders, from Indonesia to Senegal to India. We rightly condemn the stupidity of Muslim protesters and the double standards, but yet we do nothing to empower locals there who have preached a relatively tolerant and modern version of Islam for decades only to find it losing ground to the Saudi Wahabbi campaign of fundamentalism. Its not about democracy, its about rule of law, open markets and jobs. Democracy comes along, but again, the rule of law, security, trade, etc, this is more important.

Sorry Nato, don't buy all that. Mistakes and machinations not withstanding, we've backstabbed far fewer than many of those that condemn us. Take France for example, Russia, China, etc.