Trump's trade war with China

[Zorro!]

What the Chinese are doing is opening trade with other countries.

Tell us, how are those negotiations from the great negotiating going?

My guess is the chinese are stalling in hopes that trump will be defeated in 2020

As I noted, they are doing more than stalling. They are opening trade with new partners but as you note, the great negotiator is getting nowhere.

As if china would not open trade with more countries anyway

China cannot replace the US market easily or quickly

Far easier than Wall Street is going to want to abandon China.

Liberals and wall st are allies on this

Yup!

 

[Zorro!]

Well, we don't have the same access, and, unlike us, they kill spies when they catch them.

Killing CIA Informants, China Crippled US Spying Operations

https://www.nytimes.com › world › asia › china-cia-spies-espionage
May 20, 2017 - At least 18 C.I.A. sources were killed or imprisoned in China between 2010 and 2012, one of the worst intelligence breaches in decades.

Trump has taken a much more civilized approach, agreements and tariffs. But since you prefer all things China, you would likely prefer we execute the spies the we catch. What method do you suppose China uses for executing spies?

So your argument is that they are better at exposing US spies than we are at exposing spies?

Of course. We have an open society and they have a police state. The idea of normalizing trade with them was that they would become more like us, not us more like them.

Trump's trade agreements and tariffs is a much more civilized approach than capturing and executing spies. You would prefer that we adopted their execution response? How exactly does China execute the spies it catches?

We have killed tens of thousands of innocent people but you are going to condemn China for addressing spies?

The chinese communists have killed 10s of millions and are still doing so

Which makes what we do ok?

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that we should not defend ourselves from Chinese espionage because we are stained with sin?

You sure have a lot of different ways to roll 7's for China and snake eyes for the US.

 

[Zorro!]

That makes liberal environmentalists in America who also want free trade with china hypocrites

If there was any truth to that you might be right but by you simply saying it, it does not make it true.

Once Trump gets the Chinese theft from America under control, I would support environmental tariffs on China to help urge them to clean up all the damn plastic they have dumped in the oceans. Are you with me on that?

How is that control going? It was already noted that China is simply going to wait him out...

Oh sure, "Long Game China Always Wins!" Good luck with that. We are going to collect a hell of a lot in tariffs while they attempt that strategy.

... Trump wants to dismantle environmental protections here...

And make us just like China? Can you list some specific examples, what you are saying sounds a little far-fetched.

... I will support a law that disallows any product to be imported here that does not meet our environmental standards.

That's some good fresh thinking. I would support starting some incremental steps in that direction once Trump gets the current deal he is working on.

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

 

[Zorro!]

There are a number of reasons to keep China at arms length. Look at how much plastic they throw in the oceans and how much pollution the discharge, it's funny how the Left is A.OK with these things that they would blow a gasket over if the US did it. The way they reflexively align with China in every US/China dispute is kinda weird.

U.S. companies moved there to avoid the regulations about dumping stuff in the water here.

Weird how the Left seems to be all for this and really wigs out if they are subjected to tariffs in order to sell goods here, that compete with domestic producers that pay the costs in order to comply with our much more stringent environmental regulations.

Investigative reporters have trailed Chinese Merchant ships and found that a significant amount of the plastics in our oceans is from their merchant ships that just heave their garbage over railing like the world is their personal toilet. And nary a peep from the Left on Chinese crimes against our oceans and environment. It's very curious, I wonder about this response from the Left toward the Chinese.

When things aren't going your way, divert.

What's not going our way?

Your, not our.

OK. What is not going your way?

 

[pknopp]

So your argument is that they are better at exposing US spies than we are at exposing spies?

Of course. We have an open society and they have a police state. The idea of normalizing trade with them was that they would become more like us, not us more like them.

Trump's trade agreements and tariffs is a much more civilized approach than capturing and executing spies. You would prefer that we adopted their execution response? How exactly does China execute the spies it catches?

We have killed tens of thousands of innocent people but you are going to condemn China for addressing spies?

The chinese communists have killed 10s of millions and are still doing so

Which makes what we do ok?

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that we should not defend ourselves from Chinese espionage because we are stained with sin?

You sure have a lot of different ways to roll 7's for China and snake eyes for the US.

You understand my point.

 

[Zorro!]

Tariffs are tax increases paid by American's...

That's funny, I just looked at my receipt and I don't see a tariff charge.

Please post an image of a receipt you have that has a line for "tariff charge".

If you want to be this ignorant that is on you.

It's your claim that we pay them, yet, I've carefully checked my receipts and it's not on there. So then I thought, "maybe it's built into the price." So I check for price inflation since Trump ramped up tariffs in the middle of last year.

So we have two possibilities:

i) US Consumer are paying the tariffs in which case, we should see surging consumer prices.

ii) US Consumers are not paying the tariffs in which case we should not see surging consumer prices.

Guess what I found?

I understand that you had a theory, but once it is clear that the data do not support it, what do you do then?

 

[pknopp]

If there was any truth to that you might be right but by you simply saying it, it does not make it true.

Once Trump gets the Chinese theft from America under control, I would support environmental tariffs on China to help urge them to clean up all the damn plastic they have dumped in the oceans. Are you with me on that?

How is that control going? It was already noted that China is simply going to wait him out...

Oh sure, "Long Game China Always Wins!" Good luck with that. We are going to collect a hell of a lot in tariffs while they attempt that strategy.

... Trump wants to dismantle environmental protections here...

And make us just like China? Can you list some specific examples, what you are saying sounds a little far-fetched.

... I will support a law that disallows any product to be imported here that does not meet our environmental standards.

That's some good fresh thinking. I would support starting some incremental steps in that direction once Trump gets the current deal he is working on.

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

It's a war we can't win. China will be happy to trade with other countries. Wall Street will never allow things to escalate. The market is too important to them.

 

[pknopp]

Tariffs are tax increases paid by American's...

That's funny, I just looked at my receipt and I don't see a tariff charge.

Please post an image of a receipt you have that has a line for "tariff charge".

If you want to be this ignorant that is on you.

It's your claim that we pay them, yet, I've carefully checked my receipts and it's not on there. So then I thought, "maybe it's built into the price." So I check for price inflation since Trump ramped up tariffs in the middle of last year.

So we have two possibilities:

i) US Consumer are paying the tariffs in which case, we should see surging consumer prices.

ii) US Consumers are not paying the tariffs in which case we should not see surging consumer prices.

Guess what I found?

I understand that you had a theory, but once it is clear that the data do not support it, what do you do then?

You are not important.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Zorro!]

Once Trump gets the Chinese theft from America under control, I would support environmental tariffs on China to help urge them to clean up all the damn plastic they have dumped in the oceans. Are you with me on that?

How is that control going? It was already noted that China is simply going to wait him out...

Oh sure, "Long Game China Always Wins!" Good luck with that. We are going to collect a hell of a lot in tariffs while they attempt that strategy.

... Trump wants to dismantle environmental protections here...

And make us just like China? Can you list some specific examples, what you are saying sounds a little far-fetched.

... I will support a law that disallows any product to be imported here that does not meet our environmental standards.

That's some good fresh thinking. I would support starting some incremental steps in that direction once Trump gets the current deal he is working on.

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

It's a war we can't win...

It's not a war, it's trade negotiation, and we most certainly can improve our position. In fact, we already have, $Billions are flowing into the US Treasury in tariffs and consumers are see no inflation surge.

... China will be happy to trade with other countries...

As are we. That's the beauty of all this. Everyone gets to make an intelligent choice, no shots are being fired, no one is being maimed or killed, everyone is simply looking at the situation and making the choices they believe to be in their national interests.

China has dropped from our #1 trading partner and Canada and Mexico have moved up to #1 and #2. Do you have a reflexive preference for the Chinese over the Mexicans and the Canadians? Which supply lines do you think are easier on the environment? Simple trucking over the border or container ships from the other side of the world? Your instinctive compulsion to argue the Chinese line against America is as persistent as it is curious. What drives that in you?

... Wall Street will never allow things to escalate. The market is too important to them.

How are they going to stop Trump? They don't own him. As Kissinger points out, Trump is unique in our experience because he is a President that isn't beholden to a donor group, and old Henry thought it would be interesting to see how that worked out. I am in agreement with him.

Wall Street doesn't like the tariffs, yet, there they are and all their dire predictions are falling flat. They are sensibly adjusting their supply lines to other nations that are not seeking to building a global military to directly confront us. Is that a problem for you? There are far more 3rd world producers than there are First World Consumer Markets and quite frankly there is no consumer market in the world that matches ours. I'm not sure why you are alarmed. Why are you alarmed?

 

[Zorro!]

He is taxing the people who had nothing to do with the companies moving to China. There is no espionage...

Yes there is.

List of Chinese spy cases in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
The following is a list of individuals who have been accused by the government of the United States of spying against the United States on behalf of the People's Republic of China.

Contents

• 1Larry Wu-tai Chin
• 2Glenn Duffie Shriver
• 3Katrina Leung
• 4Peter Lee
• 5Chi Mak
• 6Moo Ko-Suen
• 7Wen Ho Lee
• 8Fei Ye and Ming Zhong
• 9Lan Lee and Yuefei Ge
• 10Gregg Bergersen and Tai Shen Kuo
• 11Anne Lockwood, Michael Haehnel, and Fuping Liu
• 12Bryan Underwood
• 13Bo Jiang
• 14Hua Jun Zhao
• 15Walter Liew
• 16Guoqing Cao and Shuyu Li
• 17Sherry Chen
• 18Xiaoxing Xi
• 19Szuhsiung Ho
• 20Edward C. Lin
• 21Kun Shan Chun
• 22Candace Marie Claiborne
• 23Kevin Mallory
• 24Jerry Chun Shing Lee
• 25Xu Jiaqiang
• 26Shuren Qin
• 27Ron Rockwell Hansen
• 28Ji Chaoqun
• 29Yanjun Xu
• 30Xudong Yao
• 31Yi-Chi Shih
• 32Yu Zhou and Li Chen
• 33Yujing Zhang
• 34Zhongsan Liu
• 35Xuehua Edward Peng

Thats a lot of chinese spying on the United States

Just another reason to keep china at arms length

I'm OK with that as long as we do the same.

I dont think we have the same chance to spy on china

Foreigners are closely watched in china and very few if any are allowed to work in the chinese defense industry

We spy on everyone.

We do need to get our Spy Agencies under control, it's clear that the President doesn't control them, and Congress is scared to death of them. I'm sure you agree that our Spy agents should be acting on our behalf and not their own?

 

[Zorro!]

It's the goods they are producing there and selling here that are subject to tariffs, he is targeting exactly the right entity.

US corporations, located in China, are the folks conducting industrial espionage against us? Are you sure?

He is taxing the people who had nothing to do with the companies moving to China. There is no espionage...

Yes there is.

List of Chinese spy cases in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
The following is a list of individuals who have been accused by the government of the United States of spying against the United States on behalf of the People's Republic of China.

Contents

• 1Larry Wu-tai Chin
• 2Glenn Duffie Shriver
• 3Katrina Leung
• 4Peter Lee
• 5Chi Mak
• 6Moo Ko-Suen
• 7Wen Ho Lee
• 8Fei Ye and Ming Zhong
• 9Lan Lee and Yuefei Ge
• 10Gregg Bergersen and Tai Shen Kuo
• 11Anne Lockwood, Michael Haehnel, and Fuping Liu
• 12Bryan Underwood
• 13Bo Jiang
• 14Hua Jun Zhao
• 15Walter Liew
• 16Guoqing Cao and Shuyu Li
• 17Sherry Chen
• 18Xiaoxing Xi
• 19Szuhsiung Ho
• 20Edward C. Lin
• 21Kun Shan Chun
• 22Candace Marie Claiborne
• 23Kevin Mallory
• 24Jerry Chun Shing Lee
• 25Xu Jiaqiang
• 26Shuren Qin
• 27Ron Rockwell Hansen
• 28Ji Chaoqun
• 29Yanjun Xu
• 30Xudong Yao
• 31Yi-Chi Shih
• 32Yu Zhou and Li Chen
• 33Yujing Zhang
• 34Zhongsan Liu
• 35Xuehua Edward Peng

Thats a lot of chinese spying on the United States

Just another reason to keep china at arms length

I'm OK with that as long as we do the same.

I dont think we have the same chance to spy on china

Foreigners are closely watched in china and very few if any are allowed to work in the chinese defense industry

Yes, great point. I bet a lot more Chinese folks work in US defense industries than American folks work in Chinese defense industries.

 

[pknopp]

How is that control going? It was already noted that China is simply going to wait him out...

Oh sure, "Long Game China Always Wins!" Good luck with that. We are going to collect a hell of a lot in tariffs while they attempt that strategy.

... Trump wants to dismantle environmental protections here...

And make us just like China? Can you list some specific examples, what you are saying sounds a little far-fetched.

... I will support a law that disallows any product to be imported here that does not meet our environmental standards.

That's some good fresh thinking. I would support starting some incremental steps in that direction once Trump gets the current deal he is working on.

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

It's a war we can't win...

It's not a war, it's trade negotiation, and we most certainly can improve our position. In fact, we already have, $Billions are flowing into the US Treasury in tariffs and consumers are see no inflation surge.

... China will be happy to trade with other countries...

As are we. That's the beauty of all this. Everyone gets to make an intelligent choice, no shots are being fired, no one is being maimed or killed, everyone is simply looking at the situation and making the choices they believe to be in their national interests.

China has dropped from our #1 trading partner and Canada and Mexico have moved up to #1 and #2. Do you have a reflexive preference for the Chinese over the Mexicans and the Canadians? Which supply lines do you think are easier on the environment? Simple trucking over the border or container ships from the other side of the world? Your instinctive compulsion to argue the Chinese line against America is as persistent as it is curious. What drives that in you?

... Wall Street will never allow things to escalate. The market is too important to them.

How are they going to stop Trump? They don't own him. As Kissinger points out, Trump is unique in our experience because he is a President that isn't beholden to a donor group, and old Henry thought it would be interesting to see how that worked out. I am in agreement with him.

Wall Street doesn't like the tariffs, yet, there they are and all their dire predictions are falling flat. They are sensibly adjusting their supply lines to other nations that are not seeking to building a global military to directly confront us. Is that a problem for you? There are far more 3rd world producers than there are First World Consumer Markets and quite frankly there is no consumer market in the world that matches ours. I'm not sure why you are alarmed. Why are you alarmed?

No, we are not going to be happy to simply trade with other countries.

 

[pknopp]

Yes there is.

List of Chinese spy cases in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
The following is a list of individuals who have been accused by the government of the United States of spying against the United States on behalf of the People's Republic of China.

Contents

• 1Larry Wu-tai Chin
• 2Glenn Duffie Shriver
• 3Katrina Leung
• 4Peter Lee
• 5Chi Mak
• 6Moo Ko-Suen
• 7Wen Ho Lee
• 8Fei Ye and Ming Zhong
• 9Lan Lee and Yuefei Ge
• 10Gregg Bergersen and Tai Shen Kuo
• 11Anne Lockwood, Michael Haehnel, and Fuping Liu
• 12Bryan Underwood
• 13Bo Jiang
• 14Hua Jun Zhao
• 15Walter Liew
• 16Guoqing Cao and Shuyu Li
• 17Sherry Chen
• 18Xiaoxing Xi
• 19Szuhsiung Ho
• 20Edward C. Lin
• 21Kun Shan Chun
• 22Candace Marie Claiborne
• 23Kevin Mallory
• 24Jerry Chun Shing Lee
• 25Xu Jiaqiang
• 26Shuren Qin
• 27Ron Rockwell Hansen
• 28Ji Chaoqun
• 29Yanjun Xu
• 30Xudong Yao
• 31Yi-Chi Shih
• 32Yu Zhou and Li Chen
• 33Yujing Zhang
• 34Zhongsan Liu
• 35Xuehua Edward Peng

Thats a lot of chinese spying on the United States

Just another reason to keep china at arms length

I'm OK with that as long as we do the same.

I dont think we have the same chance to spy on china

Foreigners are closely watched in china and very few if any are allowed to work in the chinese defense industry

We spy on everyone.

We do need to get our Spy Agencies under control, it's clear that the President doesn't control them, and Congress is scared to death of them. I'm sure you agree that our Spy agents should be acting on our behalf and not their own?

Trump appoints those over these agencies.

 

[Zorro!]

Tariffs are tax increases paid by American's...

That's funny, I just looked at my receipt and I don't see a tariff charge.

Please post an image of a receipt you have that has a line for "tariff charge".

If you want to be this ignorant that is on you.

It's your claim that we pay them, yet, I've carefully checked my receipts and it's not on there. So then I thought, "maybe it's built into the price." So I check for price inflation since Trump ramped up tariffs in the middle of last year.

So we have two possibilities:

i) US Consumer are paying the tariffs in which case, we should see surging consumer prices.

ii) US Consumers are not paying the tariffs in which case we should not see surging consumer prices.

Guess what I found?

I understand that you had a theory, but once it is clear that the data do not support it, what do you do then?

You are not important.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

So we disagree, I have no problem with that. But your response is to question my humanity? That's odd, do you consider those that disagree with you to be subhuman or nonhuman? That's a curious response, why do you do that?

 

[basquebromance]

i dont understand to save my life why someone would pick a fight with Trump, he is a different kinda animal. i havent seen a motherf*cker come close to beating him!

 

[Zorro!]

Oh sure, "Long Game China Always Wins!" Good luck with that. We are going to collect a hell of a lot in tariffs while they attempt that strategy.
And make us just like China? Can you list some specific examples, what you are saying sounds a little far-fetched.
That's some good fresh thinking. I would support starting some incremental steps in that direction once Trump gets the current deal he is working on.

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

It's a war we can't win...

It's not a war, it's trade negotiation, and we most certainly can improve our position. In fact, we already have, $Billions are flowing into the US Treasury in tariffs and consumers are see no inflation surge.

... China will be happy to trade with other countries...

As are we. That's the beauty of all this. Everyone gets to make an intelligent choice, no shots are being fired, no one is being maimed or killed, everyone is simply looking at the situation and making the choices they believe to be in their national interests.

China has dropped from our #1 trading partner and Canada and Mexico have moved up to #1 and #2. Do you have a reflexive preference for the Chinese over the Mexicans and the Canadians? Which supply lines do you think are easier on the environment? Simple trucking over the border or container ships from the other side of the world? Your instinctive compulsion to argue the Chinese line against America is as persistent as it is curious. What drives that in you?

... Wall Street will never allow things to escalate. The market is too important to them.

How are they going to stop Trump? They don't own him. As Kissinger points out, Trump is unique in our experience because he is a President that isn't beholden to a donor group, and old Henry thought it would be interesting to see how that worked out. I am in agreement with him.

Wall Street doesn't like the tariffs, yet, there they are and all their dire predictions are falling flat. They are sensibly adjusting their supply lines to other nations that are not seeking to building a global military to directly confront us. Is that a problem for you? There are far more 3rd world producers than there are First World Consumer Markets and quite frankly there is no consumer market in the world that matches ours. I'm not sure why you are alarmed. Why are you alarmed?

No, we are not going to be happy to simply trade with other countries.

Why not?

 

[Zorro!]

i dont understand to save my life why someone would pick a fight with Trump, he is a different kinda animal. i havent seen a motherf*cker come close to beating him!

He's no pushover, that's for sure.

 

[pknopp]

Tariffs are tax increases paid by American's...

That's funny, I just looked at my receipt and I don't see a tariff charge.

Please post an image of a receipt you have that has a line for "tariff charge".

If you want to be this ignorant that is on you.

It's your claim that we pay them, yet, I've carefully checked my receipts and it's not on there. So then I thought, "maybe it's built into the price." So I check for price inflation since Trump ramped up tariffs in the middle of last year.

So we have two possibilities:

i) US Consumer are paying the tariffs in which case, we should see surging consumer prices.

ii) US Consumers are not paying the tariffs in which case we should not see surging consumer prices.

Guess what I found?

I understand that you had a theory, but once it is clear that the data do not support it, what do you do then?

You are not important.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

So we disagree, I have no problem with that. But your response is to question my humanity? That's odd, do you consider those that disagree with you to be subhuman or nonhuman? That's a curious response, why do you do that?

Your anecdotal examples are not relevant or important.

The Basics Of Tariffs And Trade Barriers

 

[Zorro!]

Thats a lot of chinese spying on the United States

Just another reason to keep china at arms length

I'm OK with that as long as we do the same.

I dont think we have the same chance to spy on china

Foreigners are closely watched in china and very few if any are allowed to work in the chinese defense industry

We spy on everyone.

We do need to get our Spy Agencies under control, it's clear that the President doesn't control them, and Congress is scared to death of them. I'm sure you agree that our Spy agents should be acting on our behalf and not their own?

Trump appoints those over these agencies.

He does. Are you arguing that Trump has effective control over the agencies that have been trying to drive him from office?

Actually, let's go a step deeper. Do his appointees have effective control over the agencies that have been trying to and to this day are still trying to, drive him from office?

The answer is clearly "NO!"

Which leads us to the next question:

Who does control these agencies?

When Schumer issued his dire warning to Trump not to cross the Intelligence Community, do you think Schumer was describing a State of Affairs that had just formed when Trump took office, or was he describing a State of Affairs that had persisted for some time and that Schumer accepted as a given?

Well, will you look at that date:

Schumer: Trump 'really dumb' for attacking intelligence agencies

https://thehill.com › homenews › administration › 312605-schumer-trump-...
Jan 3, 2017 - “Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.” Trump said Tuesday evening that an ...

Schumer made these statements while Obama was President, before Trump had even taken office.

 

[pknopp]

He isn't getting his deal.

Then we will take more in tariffs. It's their choice.

It's a war we can't win...

It's not a war, it's trade negotiation, and we most certainly can improve our position. In fact, we already have, $Billions are flowing into the US Treasury in tariffs and consumers are see no inflation surge.

... China will be happy to trade with other countries...

As are we. That's the beauty of all this. Everyone gets to make an intelligent choice, no shots are being fired, no one is being maimed or killed, everyone is simply looking at the situation and making the choices they believe to be in their national interests.

China has dropped from our #1 trading partner and Canada and Mexico have moved up to #1 and #2. Do you have a reflexive preference for the Chinese over the Mexicans and the Canadians? Which supply lines do you think are easier on the environment? Simple trucking over the border or container ships from the other side of the world? Your instinctive compulsion to argue the Chinese line against America is as persistent as it is curious. What drives that in you?

... Wall Street will never allow things to escalate. The market is too important to them.

How are they going to stop Trump? They don't own him. As Kissinger points out, Trump is unique in our experience because he is a President that isn't beholden to a donor group, and old Henry thought it would be interesting to see how that worked out. I am in agreement with him.

Wall Street doesn't like the tariffs, yet, there they are and all their dire predictions are falling flat. They are sensibly adjusting their supply lines to other nations that are not seeking to building a global military to directly confront us. Is that a problem for you? There are far more 3rd world producers than there are First World Consumer Markets and quite frankly there is no consumer market in the world that matches ours. I'm not sure why you are alarmed. Why are you alarmed?

No, we are not going to be happy to simply trade with other countries.

Why not?

Wall Street wants the market available to them.