Trump And Israel: Carrots And Peas

[LordBrownTrout]

Anyone with the idea, or desire, that Israel is going to dissolve are in for a sad disappointment. The past 70 years should show that isn't going to happen.

Much of the turmoil in Israel over the existence of Israel is much like the divisiveness in the US between the two political parties. Will there ever be peace in Israel? Probably not until the Israelis and Palestinians can find the ability to work out their differences peacefully. I doubt that will happen in the time I have left on this earth.

Everyone will live peacefully but only for a short time.

 

[Rigby5]

Well Sunni Man?

No one ever suggested killing Jews in the Mideast.
The proper course of action is to let all the 12 million Arab Muslims vote as well as the 6 million Jews, and see who is elected?
And the rule of law requires that the Arab homes illegally confiscated by Israel, be returned to the Arab owners or their descendants, who are allowed the right of return.
So Jews then would own very little land in Israel.

 

[Rigby5]

I believe that this is the more accurate portrayal of reality.

You posted a cartoon.

Here is the reality. ...

View attachment 290678

If that were true......this wouldn't be:

In 2012, the official number of Arab residents in Israel increased to 1,617,000 people, about 21% of Israel's population. The Arab population in 2019 was estimated at 1,890,000 people, representing 20.95% of the country's population.
Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Arab_citizens_of_Israel

The reality is there are about 12 million Moslem Arabs in Palestine/Israel, and only about 6 million Jews, in Palestine/Israel.
And the Moslem Arabs are native, while almost all the Jews are from immigration since 1920.

Were in in Israel...and saw twice as many Muslims as Jews?


Or are you simply our best source of greenhouse gases?

Israel has illegally displaced most of the native Arabs off their land and into illegal concentration camps, like Gaza, or refugee camps like Shatila in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc.

 

[Sunni Man]

Then please enlighten me on exactly what you mean?

The country currently known as Israel will be relegated into the dustbin of history, and replaced with a new country called Palestine to be governed democratically based on Sharia law.

Former Israeli jewish citizens will be allowed to remain in the new country and allowed a couple of token seats in the new Parliament, but will not be allowed to join the military or hold local political office. They will be required to pay an annual tax in lieu of having to perform military service.

Any jews who can't live under these peaceful conditions will be free to exit the country with a couple of suitcases per person. Any property, business, homes, and bank accounts, will become property of the state. ...

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Well Sunni Man?

No one ever suggested killing Jews in the Mideast.
The proper course of action is to let all the 12 million Arab Muslims vote as well as the 6 million Jews, and see who is elected?
And the rule of law requires that the Arab homes illegally confiscated by Israel, be returned to the Arab owners or their descendants, who are allowed the right of return.
So Jews then would own very little land in Israel.

I asked Sunni Man only because of his apparent hatred for Jews, to include his denial of the Holocaust (a link he provides on his signature lines). So, based on his "No" with a emoji that would make one think his "no" wasn't a true comment, I asked for him to enlighten me on what he means.

A one country solution is very unlikely, so by whatever means is decided upon, let there be two nations. The United Nations created this mess and the United Nations should fix this mess. There is no reason Jews and Palestinians can't coexist.

 

[jwoodie]

Then please enlighten me on exactly what you mean?

The country currently known as Israel will be relegated into the dustbin of history, and replaced with a new country called Palestine to be governed democratically based on Sharia law.

Former Israeli jewish citizens will be allowed to remain in the new country and allowed a couple of token seats in the new Parliament, but will not be allowed to join the military or hold local political office. They will be required to pay an annual tax in lieu of having to perform military service.

Any jews who can't live under these peaceful conditions will be free to exit the country with a couple of suitcases per person. Any property, business, homes, and bank accounts, will become property of the state. ...

Nuremberg Laws - Wikipedia

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Then please enlighten me on exactly what you mean?

The country currently known as Israel will be relegated into the dustbin of history, and replaced with a new country called Palestine to be governed democratically based on Sharia law.

Democratically governed would include Jews - otherwise it isn't democratic at all.

Democratic:
2. adjective
Something that is democratic is based on the idea that everyone should have equal rights and should be involved in making important decisions.

Democratic definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Former Israeli jewish citizens will be allowed to remain in the new country and allowed a couple of token seats in the new Parliament, but will not be allowed to join the military or hold local political office. They will be required to pay an annual tax.

Any jews who can't live under these peaceful conditions will be free to exit the country with a couple of suitcases per person. Any property, business, homes, and bank accounts, will become property of the state. ...

Very Germanic of you - minus the concentration camps of course.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Israel isn't going away and neither is Palestine. So, if both sides would acknowledge each other's existence and try to come together to work out their differences then there might just be peace in the Middle East.

You are quite the optimist.

A deeper knowledge may disabuse you of same.


"The hate, rather, is a direct byproduct of mainstream Islamic teaching—and has been for nearly fourteen centuries. According to the ancient Islamic doctrine of al-wal’a wa al-bara’, or “loyalty and enmity”—which is well grounded in Islamic scriptures, well sponsored by Islamic authorities, and well manifested all throughout Islamic history and contemporary affairs—Muslims must hate and oppose everyone who is not Muslim, including family members. (The importance of this doctrine is such that al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri wrote a nearly 60 page treatise on al-wal’a wa al-bara’ in The Al Qaeda Reader, pp. 63-115.)

Koran 60:4 is the cornerstone verse of this doctrine and speaks for itself: “You [Muslims] have a good example in Abraham and those who followed him, for they said to their people, ‘We disown you and the idols which you worship besides Allah. We renounce you: enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah alone’” (Koran 60:4, emphasis added).

Koran 58:22 praises Muslims who fight and kill their own non-Muslim family members: “You shall find none who believe in Allah and the Last Day on friendly terms with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger—even if they be their fathers, their sons, their brothers, or their nearest kindred.”

According to standard Islamic exegesis, this verse refers to a number of Muslims who slaughtered their own non-Muslim kin (one slew his non-Muslim father, another his non-Muslim brother, a third—Abu Bakr, the first revered caliph of Islamic history—tried to slay his non-Muslim son, and Omar, the second righteous caliph, slaughtered his relatives). Popular commentator Ibn Kathir wrote that Allah was immensely pleased by their unwavering zeal for his cause and rewarded them with paradise.

In fact, verses that support the divisive doctrine of “loyalty and enmity” permeate the Koran (see also 4:89, 4:144, 5:51, 5:54, 6:40, 9:23, and 60:1). There is one caveat, captured by Koran 3:28: when Muslims are in a position of weakness, they may pretend to befriend non-Muslims, as long as the hate carries on in their hearts. (Read here for several recent examples of Muslims living for years at peace and in friendship with non-Muslims, but then violently turning on them once they became stronger.)

Because enmity for non-Muslims is so ironclad in the Koran, mainstream Islamic teaching holds that Muslim men must even hate—and show that they hate—their non-Muslim wives, for no other reason than that they are “infidels.”
Trump's 'Islam Hates Us' Returns - Raymond Ibrahim

 

[Sunni Man]

I asked Sunni Man only because of his apparent hatred for Jews,

I do not hate Jews. They are a very inventive and clever people.

My beef is with the apartheid, terrorist state Israel. ...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well Sunni Man?

No one ever suggested killing Jews in the Mideast.
The proper course of action is to let all the 12 million Arab Muslims vote as well as the 6 million Jews, and see who is elected?
And the rule of law requires that the Arab homes illegally confiscated by Israel, be returned to the Arab owners or their descendants, who are allowed the right of return.
So Jews then would own very little land in Israel.

"No one ever suggested killing Jews in the Mideast."


Are you this stupid, or this insane????

 

[bendog]

Trump pandering to the Rapture Now crowd. And, Israel continues its self-imposed march to apartheid. And oddly "the Christians" are singing onward Christian soldiers to the march.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

PoliticalChic

If we erase any and all optimism and hope then we condemn both sides to eternal conflict. They might as well get the war started and winner take all.

A course of action I would not prefer personally.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Then please enlighten me on exactly what you mean?

The country currently known as Israel will be relegated into the dustbin of history, and replaced with a new country called Palestine to be governed democratically based on Sharia law.

Former Israeli jewish citizens will be allowed to remain in the new country and allowed a couple of token seats in the new Parliament, but will not be allowed to join the military or hold local political office. They will be required to pay an annual tax in lieu of having to perform military service.

Any jews who can't live under these peaceful conditions will be free to exit the country with a couple of suitcases per person. Any property, business, homes, and bank accounts, will become property of the state. ...

Would the same apply to your nation?

“Following the September attacks in the United States, Abu Basir, one of the leading scholars supporting the ideology of al-Qa`ida, published a book of Islamic rulings on issues of immigration. In his book of rulings, Abu Basir uses the Islamic principle of “the necessities allow the prohibited.” Just as Muslims can drink wine or eat pork in order to save them from starving, so they can immigrate to the Western “infidel countries” to save themselves from the oppression of the governments of their homelands.

But he goes even further: immigration is allowed also “in order to enforce the Muslims and weaken the infidels. One of the goals of immigration is the revival of the duty of Jihad and enforcement of their power over the infidels. Immigration and Jihad go together. One is the consequence of the other and dependent upon it. The continuance of the one is dependent upon the continuance of the other.” https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/589c/1fc2080075bccaf3e0caa168ffbcfb1df261.pdf



The jihadi next door knows the plan.
It includes immigration.




"Alleged Would-be ISIS Bomber Could Have Lived American Dream
...Mustafa Mousab Alowemer was arrested for allegedly plotting to bomb a small Christian church in Pittsburgh's North Side.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, his motivation was to support the cause of ISIS. And he was "aware that numerous people in or around the Church could be killed by the explosion."

That's a lousy way to show gratitude.

You see, Alowemer is a refugee from Syria. He entered the United States three years ago and lived with his family in an apartment in a public housing complex.
They lived there because Pittsburghers are generous."
Alleged Would-be ISIS Bomber Could Have Lived American Dream



Does Sharia fit under the document that you love, the United States Constitution???

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

I asked Sunni Man only because of his apparent hatred for Jews,

I do not hate Jews. They are a very inventive and clever people.

My beef is with the apartheid, terrorist state Israel. ...

Lets be honest, terrorism runs deep on both sides. I don't care about "who did what first". Both are guilty. The only way Israel will cease to exist is if they were to lose a war and had their lands completely occupied and under the rule of the victors.

So a different, peaceful, solution must be worked on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe that this is the more accurate portrayal of reality.

You posted a cartoon.

Here is the reality. ...

View attachment 290678

If that were true......this wouldn't be:

In 2012, the official number of Arab residents in Israel increased to 1,617,000 people, about 21% of Israel's population. The Arab population in 2019 was estimated at 1,890,000 people, representing 20.95% of the country's population.
Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Arab_citizens_of_Israel

The reality is there are about 12 million Moslem Arabs in Palestine/Israel, and only about 6 million Jews, in Palestine/Israel.
And the Moslem Arabs are native, while almost all the Jews are from immigration since 1920.

Were in in Israel...and saw twice as many Muslims as Jews?


Or are you simply our best source of greenhouse gases?

Israel has illegally displaced most of the native Arabs off their land and into illegal concentration camps, like Gaza, or refugee camps like Shatila in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc.

Of course that is false.

To make room for the attackers of 1948, Arab residents were told by the Islamist attackers to 'temporarily' leave the 'battlefields' and could return after the Jews were pushed into the sea.




"... the Arabs in Palestine were asked to stay and live as citizens in the Jewish state. Instead, they chose to leave, either because they were unwilling to live with the Jews, or because they expected an Arab military victory which would annihilate the Zionists. They thought they could leave temporarily and return at their leisure. Later, an additional claim was put forth, namely that the Palestinians were ordered to leave, with radio broadcasts instructing them to quit their homes."
Steven Glazer, 1980, "The Palestinian Exodus in 1948", J. Palestine Studies 9(4), pp. 96–118.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Trump pandering to the Rapture Now crowd. And, Israel continues its self-imposed march to apartheid. And oddly "the Christians" are singing onward Christian soldiers to the march.

So you're a government school grad?

 

[jwoodie]

A one country solution is very unlikely, so by whatever means is decided upon, let there be two nations.

Thank you King Solomon, but Israel does not need another hostile country along its borders. The only possible solution I can see would be a confederation wherein the Palestinians would have a separate legislative body with limited veto power over legislation passed by the Knesset. This could eventually lead to political compromises and lessened intransigence on both sides.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliticalChic

If we erase any and all optimism and hope then we condemn both sides to eternal conflict. They might as well get the war started and winner take all.

A course of action I would not prefer personally.

You stand up for what is right.

You saw what the result of the Chamberlain/Roosevelt policy of appeasement.


One side favors slaughter and genocide.....

Central to Islamism is the demand that the entire world worship Islam.

Demand.

John Quincy Adams also described the Quran in one of his essays as follows:

The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.
No, Professor Ahmed, the Founders Were Not So Fond of Islam

 

[PoliticalChic]

I asked Sunni Man only because of his apparent hatred for Jews,

I do not hate Jews. They are a very inventive and clever people.

My beef is with the apartheid, terrorist state Israel. ...

Lets be honest, terrorism runs deep on both sides. I don't care about "who did what first". Both are guilty. The only way Israel will cease to exist is if they were to lose a war and had their lands completely occupied and under the rule of the victors.

So a different, peaceful, solution must be worked on.

This is nonsense.

You have succumbed to the moral equivalency doctrine of the Left.

 

[Sunni Man]

You have succumbed to the moral equivalency doctrine of the Left.

Incorrect ..

He is applying common sense to the reality of the situation in a quest to reach an equitable and peaceful solution..