Three Officers Charged for death of 8 year old.

[gipper]

westwall
I never expected that you would continue to fellate your orange messiah. Get off your knees man. Grow a fucking spine.

 

[gipper]

And what? Was this when TRUMP visited the DC church that had been set on fire during a peaceful protest?

Lol. You don’t know? WTF!

 

[Turtlesoup]

I’ve written many times. I don’t want to see anyone die.

I don’t know the solution for Gang Violence. I do know our current Justice System doesn’t work. Recidivism rates in the US are higher than a vast majority of other nations. Nations with lower rates tend to focus on Rehabilitation.

I don’t know the answer. But I think we better start exploring something other than lock them up and forget about them in hell hole prisons.

Cut Welfare...is the answer.

Paying imbeciles with around 70 iq to breed the most kids creates issues in all parts of life. The Gang bangers should be killed off---and their familiy members cut off from all public assistance and sterilized.

 

[SavannahMann]

Cut Welfare...is the answer.

Paying imbeciles with around 70 iq to breed the most kids creates issues in all parts of life. The Gang bangers should be killed off---and their familiy members cut off from all public assistance and sterilized.

Well I’m not sure what we would do with all those starving white kids. Since a majority of Welfare recipients are White. And forced sterilization of those white families would probably be used as proof that the Minority loving Democrats and Socialists are trying to wipe out the White Race, probably by you in a thread yet to come.

7. Ethnic and Racial Differences in Welfare Receipt in the United States | America Becoming: Racial Trends and Their Consequences: Volume II | The National Academies Press

Read chapter 7. Ethnic and Racial Differences in Welfare Receipt in the United States: The 20th Century has been marked by enormous change in terms of how...

www.nap.edu

And I’m sure that the resulting population loss to Texas and Florida, and the resultant loss of representation in congress with the diminishing populations, would be a huge LW conspiracy to the folks like yourself.

Welfare Recipients by State 2024

By my count, about half of those top ten Welfare states, are Red.

A couple are Purple, which means they go Red sometimes, and Blue others.

But hey, lets get rid of it all, and let those White Kids die. Sterilize the White Families. That will teach them that they don’t deserve no Draw checks. Money for nothing. Just laying around doing drugs and drinking and having babies. Slobs and criminals the lot.

 

[SavannahMann]

I’ve had more time to consider this. And I am even more convinced that the Police missed an opportunity to lead the reform.

An example, the standards for Police Weapons Qualifications. Most are variations of whatever the FBI is doing. The FBI qualification is all about quick draw and rapid fire.

Mostly this is from learning the wrong lessons from previous shoot outs.

One example is the famous FBI shootout in Miami. A former Green Beret broke that down, explaining what the official record showed about the shooting. And his conclusion is difficult to argue against. The problem wasn’t the weapons involved. The .357 Magnum round is extremely effective against targets like people. There was an agent with a 9MM pistol.

The problem wasn’t with the training. The Agents were all qualified shooters, and were able to hit the target at the range. The problem was not courage, they had a surfeit of courage. Guts was not in short supply.

The problem was that the FBI agents didn’t hit their targets. They missed the baddies. They fired their guns empty, and in some cases, reloaded, and fired more. They hit nothing but air a vast majority of the time. The problem was accuracy. The FBI agents just didn’t hit the target.

The lessons learned? Why Cops need to give up the Revolvers, and go with the 9MM pistols to have more ammunition available. I’ve said this all my life. I don’t care what kind of bullet it is. If it misses the target, or bad guy, it doesn’t matter one damned bit how powerful it is.

And it is an old story getting worse all the time. Remember the big Dorner manhunt? Remember the two cops who shot up the wrong pick up truck with two women who were delivering newspapers? 103 rounds fired. Think about how many magazine changes that was. 103 rounds between two cops. And one woman was hit twice, and survived. The second one was hit by broken glass, no bullets.

Point blank range for all intents and purposes, and out of 102 rounds they hit the targets exactly twice. Twice. That is less than a 2% hit rate.

I’m not sure if the cops can carry enough ammunition to put down two bad guys all by themselves with that sort of marksmanship.

Police Officers Who Shot at Two Innocent Women 103 Times Won't Be Fired

The eight Los Angeles police officers who shot at two women over 100 times will not lose their jobs. They won't even be suspended. They'll just get some additional training.

www.theatlantic.com

They would be staggering under the load. Body builders would have puny legs by comparison after spending the day standing up with that much ammunition strapped to them.

But the training has been focused on fast shooting, quick draw and speed. Pull and fire and do it fast. Reload your weapon, fast. It should go back to good old fashioned marksmanship. Aiming and hitting your target. Yes, it might take an extra quarter second, but that brings the old truism into play doesn’t it?

Why is it we never have time to do it right the first time, but we always have time to do it over again when we screw it up. If you can’t spend that quarter second getting a good sight picture with your weapon, where the hell are you going to find the time needed to fire 103 rounds?

We need Police Reform, and the first thing we need to do is throw out the urban legends and erroneous ideals. The fact that his reform is now crashing over the cops like a Tsunami, shows that the cops are late to the party. It might already be too late to take the lead, but they had better stop resisting the reform effort, they’re in danger of drowning.

 

[westwall]

westwall
I never expected that you would continue to fellate your orange messiah. Get off your knees man. Grow a fucking spine.

You first, statist ass.

 

[Woodznutz]

Explain in detail how the federal Government has ANY say in local police matters?

If illegal drugs cross state lines the Feds can come in. Such drugs are the driver of many of these crimes.

 

[SavannahMann]

Update on the case.

The three former police officers plead guilty in a plea bargain to end this case.

3 former Pennsylvania officers plead guilty in the shooting of an 8-year-old girl

Three former Pennsylvania police officers each pleaded guilty Thursday to 10 counts of reckless endangerment for their involvement in the death of an 8-year-old girl who was shot after she was leaving a high school football game with her family, according to a spokesperson from the Delaware...

amp.cnn.com

What bothers me about this is a little complicated. For decades I’ve argued that police must be held accountable. For decades I’ve argued it must happen. So you might think I’d be thrilled.

I don’t like retroactive changes. I’ll explain. If it was the norm at the time I did something. Retroactively deciding that there was a new standard you hadn’t told me about and now I’m in trouble is unfair. First you establish the standard. Then you enforce the standard.

If you are going to establish a new standard retroactively. It has to be in favor of the defendant.

It is a core belief of mine that responsibility must be equal to authority.

 

[pknopp]

Firing randomly because you panic has never been the standard.

 

[SavannahMann]

Firing randomly because you panic has never been the standard.

Actually. Yes it has. It is exactly what they are trained to do.

 

[pknopp]

Actually. Yes it has. It is exactly what they are trained to do.

If you say so. LOL

 

[SavannahMann]

If you say so. LOL

Ok, let us run down the list shall we? The first that leaps to mind is the Stockton Bank Robbery shootout.

Police fired 600 rounds of ammunition. They killed Two Bank Robbers, wounded two, wounded two hostages, and killed a hostage.

2014 Stockton bank robbery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most of the cops shooting, couldn’t actually see the baddies. In some cases, the baddies were blocked by an obstruction, but the cops were just shooting as fast as they could, often perilously close to fellow officers. Now, with 600 rounds fired, it seems to me that it would be difficult to categorize that as anything less than spray and pray. Just throw bullets in their general direction and pray that one of the bullets finds the baddies. Nobody was aiming. Nobody was even really pointing their weapons. Yet no cops were charged with crimes, nor were they even disciplined. Using the old standards I mention, they chalked it up to the actions of the Baddie being responsible for the reactions of the police. The surviving Bank Robber was charged with the murders of his own compatriots and the hostage.

Frightened spraying of bullets was the order of the day wouldn’t you say?

California again. The Dornier Manhunt.

No charges for LAPD officers who shot newspaper delivery women during Dorner manhunt

Eight Los Angeles police officers who mistakenly opened fire on Los Angeles Times newspaper delivery women thinking they were rogue ex-cop Christopher Dorner in 2013 will not be criminally charged, the L.A.

www.latimes.com

Two cops opened fire on two women delivering news papers because they were in a pick up truck and driving suspiciously. While they were searching for a different make, model, and color of truck. No charges, no discipline. The cops fired a hundred rounds and managed to wound one of the women.

Terrified spray and pray once again.

You say it isn’t the standard? Have you seen the standard training and testing lately?

Look up the FBI pistol qualification standard. The targets are right in front of you. I mean literally right there. The entire pistol qualification course is about quick draw, quick fire, and quick reloads. Speed, speed, speed.



That isn’t going to teach someone how to fire at a distance. It isn’t going to teach them proper sight picture, or caution identifying the target. It is going to teach the average shooter who is wearing a badge that if you don’t draw and fire fast, you’re going to die.

Look through this thread. I mention about learning the wrong lessons from shootouts. The lesson our LEO community has learned is that quick draw and quick shooting is the thing you need to worry about most.

Yeah. Spray and Pray was the standard. And until this case, was always pinned on the Criminal claiming his actions were what instigated the response.

 

[pknopp]

Ok, let us run down the list shall we? The first that leaps to mind is the Stockton Bank Robbery shootout.

Police fired 600 rounds of ammunition. They killed Two Bank Robbers, wounded two, wounded two hostages, and killed a hostage.

2014 Stockton bank robbery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most of the cops shooting, couldn’t actually see the baddies. In some cases, the baddies were blocked by an obstruction, but the cops were just shooting as fast as they could, often perilously close to fellow officers. Now, with 600 rounds fired, it seems to me that it would be difficult to categorize that as anything less than spray and pray. Just throw bullets in their general direction and pray that one of the bullets finds the baddies. Nobody was aiming. Nobody was even really pointing their weapons. Yet no cops were charged with crimes, nor were they even disciplined. Using the old standards I mention, they chalked it up to the actions of the Baddie being responsible for the reactions of the police. The surviving Bank Robber was charged with the murders of his own compatriots and the hostage.

Frightened spraying of bullets was the order of the day wouldn’t you say?

California again. The Dornier Manhunt.

No charges for LAPD officers who shot newspaper delivery women during Dorner manhunt

Eight Los Angeles police officers who mistakenly opened fire on Los Angeles Times newspaper delivery women thinking they were rogue ex-cop Christopher Dorner in 2013 will not be criminally charged, the L.A.

www.latimes.com

Two cops opened fire on two women delivering news papers because they were in a pick up truck and driving suspiciously. While they were searching for a different make, model, and color of truck. No charges, no discipline. The cops fired a hundred rounds and managed to wound one of the women.

Terrified spray and pray once again.

You say it isn’t the standard? Have you seen the standard training and testing lately?

Look up the FBI pistol qualification standard. The targets are right in front of you. I mean literally right there. The entire pistol qualification course is about quick draw, quick fire, and quick reloads. Speed, speed, speed.



That isn’t going to teach someone how to fire at a distance. It isn’t going to teach them proper sight picture, or caution identifying the target. It is going to teach the average shooter who is wearing a badge that if you don’t draw and fire fast, you’re going to die.

Look through this thread. I mention about learning the wrong lessons from shootouts. The lesson our LEO community has learned is that quick draw and quick shooting is the thing you need to worry about most.

Yeah. Spray and Pray was the standard. And until this case, was always pinned on the Criminal claiming his actions were what instigated the response.

No, I wouldn't say that is how they were taught. Just because I'm the past we didn't hold cops responsible for being irresponsible, simply meant we didn't care.

We do now.

 

[SavannahMann]

No, I wouldn't say that is how they were taught. Just because I'm the past we didn't hold cops responsible for being irresponsible, simply meant we didn't care.

We do now.

I’m one of the loudest voices on this board about holding cops responsible. I have even advocated tying their police licenses to the ability to pass a lie detector test similar to Top Secret Clearances. I’ve been one of the voices arguing that Chauvin was guilty.

But the why I think he is guilty is key. They were told not to do that. Chauvin was trained in a class not to do what he did. He was taught to take action if a pulse could not be found. He didn’t do what he was taught to do. He did the exact opposite of the standards that existed.

For me integrity is key. And I’ve been calling for reforms for a very long time. But part of that is standards and training. You tell the people that the rules are now this. And if they break the rules they have the hammer come down. First one and then the other.

 

[pknopp]

I’m one of the loudest voices on this board about holding cops responsible. I have even advocated tying their police licenses to the ability to pass a lie detector test similar to Top Secret Clearances. I’ve been one of the voices arguing that Chauvin was guilty.

But the why I think he is guilty is key. They were told not to do that. Chauvin was trained in a class not to do what he did. He was taught to take action if a pulse could not be found. He didn’t do what he was taught to do. He did the exact opposite of the standards that existed.

For me integrity is key. And I’ve been calling for reforms for a very long time. But part of that is standards and training. You tell the people that the rules are now this. And if they break the rules they have the hammer come down. First one and then the other.

They were never taught to randomly shoot into cars.