There are questions about what WWII Fighter was the best

[Daryl Hunt]

When the long ranged fighter was introduced by the US in early 1942, there was only one. The P-38. It was out numbered at least 11 to 1 by Luftwaffe fighters. And many of those Luftwaffe Fighters had many times aces in them.

The P-47 arrived in 1942 but it didn't have the range quite yet to get into Germany and mix it up. But NO P-47 was lost in an air to air battle. You could pound on it and if it got into trouble, it just poured the coals to it and disengaged since it was much faster than either the FW-190 or the ME-109.

The P-51B/C was introduced enmass in early 1944. When they introduced the P-51B/C, they also changed the way that fighters protected bombers. Before, the Fighters would stay with the bombers. They zigged and zagged which took up a tremendous amount of fuel. The Fighters of the time could not get much past the German Border. When the changed the fighter doctrine, the fighter would go ahead of the bombers and bounce the Luftwaffe. You might see 2 US long ranged fighters bounce a flight of 50 Luftwaffe Fighters gathering to go after the bombers. They would fly through the formation bagging 2 or 3 fighters and get out of there fast. It caused more than one gaggle of German Fighters to break into a twisting mass trying to find what the devil just happened and they would not be able to regroup due to fuel reasons.

By the middle of 1944, it really didn't matter which of the big three were in the fight. All 3 outclassed the FW-190 and ME-109. And Germany had lost most of their Expertine Pilots (ACES). The Luftwaffe was now a shell of what it used to be.

You will notice that I dwelled on the P-38/P-47/P-51. They were the only three with the range to carry the fight to the Luftwaffe before July of 1944.

Now, which one is the best?

 

[william the wie]

I believe it was the P-38 that had the centerline guns. Single engine fighters had a harder time hitting the opponent.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Not sure about the best fighter, but the Enola Gay was the best bomber

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I believe it was the P-38 that had the centerline guns. Single engine fighters had a harder time hitting the opponent.

At long range only was this a factor. And that 20mm was really, really long ranged. The other fighters had a converging aim. As long as you were in or near the converging point, it had the same affect.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not sure about the best fighter, but the Enola Gay was the best bomber

You left out Boxcar.

Actually, the best bomber, in my mind was the B-24. It had adequate range (more than the F-17), decent bombload and it there were more of them than any other single type of bomber. The B-24 got us to the point where the two nuke carriers could be used.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Not sure about the best fighter, but the Enola Gay was the best bomber

You left out Boxcar.

Actually, the best bomber, in my mind was the B-24. It had adequate range (more than the F-17), decent bombload and it there were more of them than any other single type of bomber. The B-24 got us to the point where the two nuke carriers could be used.

Enola Gay had more pizzazz

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Now, back to the original question. Which Fighter from WWII was the best.

 

[Sunni Man]

Actually, the best bomber, in my mind was the B-24. It had adequate range (more than the F-17), decent bombload and it there were more of them than any other single type of bomber. The B-24 got us to the point where the two nuke carriers could be used.

Pilots and crews much preferred to fly the B-17 over the B-24

The B-17 could take massive punishment and still get the crew back to base.

Whereas, the B-24 was notorious for going down with just a few minor hits. .....

 

[Sunni Man]

But no P-47 was lost in an air to air battle.

Incorrect Poindexter. ......

P-47 "Jugs" were shot down in both the European and Pacific theaters.

Col. Neel E. Kearby, Medal of Honor ace, was just one of many pilots shot down while flying a P-47

Neel E. Kearby - Wikipedia

 

[westwall]

When the long ranged fighter was introduced by the US in early 1942, there was only one. The P-38. It was out numbered at least 11 to 1 by Luftwaffe fighters. And many of those Luftwaffe Fighters had many times aces in them.

The P-47 arrived in 1942 but it didn't have the range quite yet to get into Germany and mix it up. But NO P-47 was lost in an air to air battle. You could pound on it and if it got into trouble, it just poured the coals to it and disengaged since it was much faster than either the FW-190 or the ME-109.

The P-51B/C was introduced enmass in early 1944. When they introduced the P-51B/C, they also changed the way that fighters protected bombers. Before, the Fighters would stay with the bombers. They zigged and zagged which took up a tremendous amount of fuel. The Fighters of the time could not get much past the German Border. When the changed the fighter doctrine, the fighter would go ahead of the bombers and bounce the Luftwaffe. You might see 2 US long ranged fighters bounce a flight of 50 Luftwaffe Fighters gathering to go after the bombers. They would fly through the formation bagging 2 or 3 fighters and get out of there fast. It caused more than one gaggle of German Fighters to break into a twisting mass trying to find what the devil just happened and they would not be able to regroup due to fuel reasons.

By the middle of 1944, it really didn't matter which of the big three were in the fight. All 3 outclassed the FW-190 and ME-109. And Germany had lost most of their Expertine Pilots (ACES). The Luftwaffe was now a shell of what it used to be.

You will notice that I dwelled on the P-38/P-47/P-51. They were the only three with the range to carry the fight to the Luftwaffe before July of 1944.

Now, which one is the best?

According to Francis Deans "America's 100,000" there were 3,077 P-47's shot down. Of the three aircraft listed the P-51 is the only one that remained in service past WWII, so it gets my vote even though I have a sentimental attachment to the Jug. It had the longest legs, and the best overall performance though the P-47N came to within about 10% of the performance of the Mustang.

The Me109 was indeed outclassed by all of these fighters, but the FW-190D-9 was a match for any of them. The main problem Germany had was they had no way to get fuel to their fighters defense forces thanks to our fighters shooting up anything that moved on the ground. Thus, the new pilots had very little time in their aircraft before they were sent out.


Air forces losses in WWII


WWII Aircraft Performance

 

[Daryl Hunt]

But no P-47 was lost in an air to air battle.

Incorrect Poindexter. ......

P-47 "Jugs" were shot down in both the European and Pacific theaters.

Col. Neel E. Kearby, Medal of Honor ace, was just one of many pilots shot down while flying a P-47

Neel E. Kearby - Wikipedia

I agree with you. But I was posting to give the place some life. And low and behold, I snagged a live one

 

[regent]

Even in just WWII air planes had a period of utility and then bingo obsolete.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Even in just WWII air planes had a period of utility and then bingo obsolete.

If you look, there were only two or three different fighter designs from 1939 to 1945. From the P-40/Hurricane type to the P-38. It wasn't until the 262/P-80 that there was a jump in design. That was 6 years. And, no, the P-51 was not a huge jump. It was a minor in comparison.

From 1946 to 1953, not a lot of things changed. They just improved on old designs like the P-80 and the ME262. No, the F-86 and Mig15 were not big improvements.

But in 1953, all hell broke loose and the US went nuts. From 1953 to 1968, Starting with the F-104 and ending with the F-4. There were many different designs from many countries. The Mig-25, SR-71, U-2 and many others.

In 1968, enter the new breed. The F-14 and soon after that, the F-15 and F-16. AFter that, the Soviets introduced the Mig-29, another leap. But from about 1978 and on, things got stagnent on design in air frames. But the leapfrog of systems kept them current by both sides.

Then the F-22 in the 90s hit. Another huge leap in technology. This is now the gold standard.

But you can say that the WWII fighters hit the penacle in their design. The Piston could not really go any faster than 500mph (the record is held by the Bearcat which really wasn't used in WWII). The Production Piston Fighters were attaining around 470mph. Two comes quickly to mind, the P-51H and the short winged TA152,

 

[depotoo]

Did you know Lindbergh helped increase the p38 range while in the Pacific Theater when he 'attached' himself to the 475th fighter group?
..
Following a week of technical rep duties on Guadalcanal, and anxious to evaluate twin engine fighter performance, Lindbergh moved on to Hallandia where he attached himself to the 475th Fighter Group, a Fifth Air Force P-38 outfit. On June 27 he flew his first mission in a P-38, joining three other 475th planes on a barge strafing mission to Salawati Island at the western tip on New Guinea. By July 4 he had flown five missions in the same area. It was soon noted that Lindbergh consistently returned from missions with several times as much fuel as the other pilots in his flight.

Rumor of his presence in the area brought Lindbergh an invitation to Brisbane to discuss his presence in their area of control with MacArthur and Kenney. Apparently our Navy had authorized his move to the SWPA without first checking with MacArthurs HQ. The usual questions about civilians flying combat and repercussions if he should be shot down were discussed. In addition, Lindbergh commented that he thought P-38 combat radius could be increased from 570 miles to 700-750 miles and still leave a one hour reserve of fuel. He felt our pilots could cruise at lower RPM and higher manifold settings, saving fuel without danger of harming the engines. This caught Gen. Kenneys attention and it was quickly decided that Lindbergh could continue flying as an observer providing he did not fire his guns, but if he did strafe a little no one would knowand if he could get the Spirit of St. Louis all the way to Paris maybe he really could help increase the combat radius of the P-38 and other fighters. Returning to the 475th, Lindbergh resumed flying June 20 and flew eight more missions through August 12, operating from Wakde, Owi and Biak. These missions, mostly to the Ceram and Halmahera areas, included both bomber escort and strafing flights. Between missions Lindbergh talked with many fighter units, explaining his fuel conservation methods.

On July 28, during a bomber escort mission in the Ceram area, Lindbergh shot down a Jap plane. On August 1 he, with three other 475th P-38s, proved the worth of his theories by flying a mission from Biak to Palau. Here his companions destroyed several Jap planes and Lindbergh learned he could not shake an enemy plane which got on his tail. Luckily one of the other planes chased the Jap off before any damage was done and all returned safely to Biak.
From 307bg and Lindbergh In World War II

When the long ranged fighter was introduced by the US in early 1942, there was only one. The P-38. It was out numbered at least 11 to 1 by Luftwaffe fighters. And many of those Luftwaffe Fighters had many times aces in them.

The P-47 arrived in 1942 but it didn't have the range quite yet to get into Germany and mix it up. But NO P-47 was lost in an air to air battle. You could pound on it and if it got into trouble, it just poured the coals to it and disengaged since it was much faster than either the FW-190 or the ME-109.

The P-51B/C was introduced enmass in early 1944. When they introduced the P-51B/C, they also changed the way that fighters protected bombers. Before, the Fighters would stay with the bombers. They zigged and zagged which took up a tremendous amount of fuel. The Fighters of the time could not get much past the German Border. When the changed the fighter doctrine, the fighter would go ahead of the bombers and bounce the Luftwaffe. You might see 2 US long ranged fighters bounce a flight of 50 Luftwaffe Fighters gathering to go after the bombers. They would fly through the formation bagging 2 or 3 fighters and get out of there fast. It caused more than one gaggle of German Fighters to break into a twisting mass trying to find what the devil just happened and they would not be able to regroup due to fuel reasons.

By the middle of 1944, it really didn't matter which of the big three were in the fight. All 3 outclassed the FW-190 and ME-109. And Germany had lost most of their Expertine Pilots (ACES). The Luftwaffe was now a shell of what it used to be.

You will notice that I dwelled on the P-38/P-47/P-51. They were the only three with the range to carry the fight to the Luftwaffe before July of 1944.

Now, which one is the best?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

LOoks like a medium bomber thread is in order. Hang in there.

 

[Scorpion]

Snoopy in his Sopwith Camel.

 

[namvet]

the versatile 25

If we had a real moderator in here, this would be moved to the correct message thread. But we don't, do we.

deleted. satisfied??

 

[mamooth]

On July 28, during a bomber escort mission in the Ceram area, Lindbergh shot down a Jap plane. On August 1 he, with three other 475th P-38s, proved the worth of his theories by flying a mission from Biak to Palau. Here his companions destroyed several Jap planes and Lindbergh learned he could not shake an enemy plane which got on his tail. Luckily one of the other planes chased the Jap off before any damage was done and all returned safely to Biak.
From 307bg and Lindbergh In World War II

Lindbergh's companions noted he was an excellent flyer, but that he had poor tactical sense. He didn't really seem to "get" that it wasn't just target shooting, and that an intelligent enemy was out there trying to kill him. Not really his fault, as he was just tossed out there, and didn't go through military pilot training.

As the government did not want the PR disaster of losing him, they pulled him out of combat.

 

[rightwinger]

Now, back to the original question. Which Fighter from WWII was the best.

The ME-262 was the best. They were just introduced too late in the war to make an impact

 

[rightwinger]

On July 28, during a bomber escort mission in the Ceram area, Lindbergh shot down a Jap plane. On August 1 he, with three other 475th P-38s, proved the worth of his theories by flying a mission from Biak to Palau. Here his companions destroyed several Jap planes and Lindbergh learned he could not shake an enemy plane which got on his tail. Luckily one of the other planes chased the Jap off before any damage was done and all returned safely to Biak.
From 307bg and Lindbergh In World War II

Lindbergh's companions noted he was an excellent flyer, but that he had poor tactical sense. He didn't really seem to "get" that it wasn't just target shooting, and that an intelligent enemy was out there trying to kill him. Not really his fault, as he was just tossed out there, and didn't go through military pilot training.

As the government did not want the PR disaster of losing him, they pulled him out of combat.

FDR hated Lindbergh and considered him a Nazi sympathizer. He refused to let him in the Air Corps