Zone1 The Second

[LOIE]

I just finished a book titled “The Second,” by Carol Anderson. Here are some excerpts:

“The eighteenth century origins of the “right to bear arms” explicitly excluded black people.”

“Even the “well-regulate militia” interpretation of the Second Amendment ran aground on the shoals of blackness. The militia had been active in the War of Independence, and while states wanted to keep those forces intact afterward to fend off a tyrannical president or foreign aggressor, they had actually proved to be too unreliable and ill-equipped for those roles. They were adept, however, in buttressing slave patrols to hunt down, capture and return back to their owners, blacks who had fled bondage. More important, state militias quashed slave rebellions.”

“Thus, the role of the militia and who controlled it – either the federal government or the slaveholding states – became a sticking point in ratification of the U.S. Constitution. James Madison, architect of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, understood what was at stake. Just as the continuation of the Atlantic slave trade for an additional twenty years, the three-fifths clause and the fugitive slave clause were embedded into the Constitution to purchase the South’s participation in the United States of America, the Second Amendment was also a bribe.”

“If there was going to be a Constitution and a United States of America, the Federalists had to respond to Mason’s, Henry’s and other Southerner’s assertions that “the federal government would in one way or another, render the militia impotent as a slave control device.”

“The Second Amendment was, thus, not some hollowed ground but rather a bribe, paid again with black bodies. It was the result of Madison’s determination to salve Patrick Henry’s obsession about Virginia’s vulnerability to slave revolts, reduce enough anti-Federalists to get the Constitution ratified, and stifle the demonstrated willingness of the South to scuttle the United States if slavery were not protected.”


I had never heard of this explanation of how the Second Amendment came about and how much it had to do with race and slavery.

 

[fncceo]

“The eighteenth century origins of the “right to bear arms” explicitly excluded black people.”

Somehow, those words never made it into the final draft. Let's take a look and see.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Black people ... black people ... Nope, not there ... whew! I think we're OK

 

[IM2]

Somehow, those words never made it into the final draft. Let's take a look and see.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Black people ... black people ... Nope, not there ... whew! I think we're OK

Stop denying the facts.

 

[hjmick]

I just finished a book titled “The Second,” by Carol Anderson. Here are some excerpts:

“The eighteenth century origins of the “right to bear arms” explicitly excluded black people.”

“Even the “well-regulate militia” interpretation of the Second Amendment ran aground on the shoals of blackness. The militia had been active in the War of Independence, and while states wanted to keep those forces intact afterward to fend off a tyrannical president or foreign aggressor, they had actually proved to be too unreliable and ill-equipped for those roles. They were adept, however, in buttressing slave patrols to hunt down, capture and return back to their owners, blacks who had fled bondage. More important, state militias quashed slave rebellions.”

“Thus, the role of the militia and who controlled it – either the federal government or the slaveholding states – became a sticking point in ratification of the U.S. Constitution. James Madison, architect of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, understood what was at stake. Just as the continuation of the Atlantic slave trade for an additional twenty years, the three-fifths clause and the fugitive slave clause were embedded into the Constitution to purchase the South’s participation in the United States of America, the Second Amendment was also a bribe.”

“If there was going to be a Constitution and a United States of America, the Federalists had to respond to Mason’s, Henry’s and other Southerner’s assertions that “the federal government would in one way or another, render the militia impotent as a slave control device.”

“The Second Amendment was, thus, not some hollowed ground but rather a bribe, paid again with black bodies. It was the result of Madison’s determination to salve Patrick Henry’s obsession about Virginia’s vulnerability to slave revolts, reduce enough anti-Federalists to get the Constitution ratified, and stifle the demonstrated willingness of the South to scuttle the United States if slavery were not protected.”


I had never heard of this explanation of how the Second Amendment came about and how much it had to do with race and slavery.

Fascinating. Nothing I was not previously aware of, but fascinating...


not really...

So, it's nice you felt compelled to offer up a history lesson when no one asked for one, but how about an opinion on the subject? You've confessed your ignorance of some of the history of how the 2nd was used, but nothing else. Was it your intention to share with the class your lack of knowledge and nothing else?

 

[LOIE]

Fascinating. Nothing I was not previously aware of, but fascinating...


not really...

So, it's nice you felt compelled to offer up a history lesson when no one asked for one, but how about an opinion on the subject? You've confessed your ignorance of some of the history of how the 2nd was used, but nothing else. Was it your intention to share with the class your lack of knowledge and nothing else?

Actually, was just sharing something I had just learned and thought perhaps others might find it interesting. Were you taught this history about the Second Amendment in school or college? I had literally never heard it described in such a clear way. Much of the history I was taught in school was inaccurate and whitewashed.

I may have a lack of knowledge about a particular subject if I have never been taught it or had any reason to research it. I am always happy to increase my knowledge when I can. That's why I read more now than I ever did in school.

And my opinion on the subject, is that like so many other things, it has been used to the detriment of blacks. The book shares many stories of the killing of blacks during colonial days and then many stories of the killing of blacks in modern times, and they sound eerily similar in their outcomes.

 

[task0778]

the killing of blacks in modern times

is mostly done by other blacks. True, American history is littered with stories and incidents of injustice and not just to blacks either. And the democrat judges and DAs do nothing to stop it.

 

[Leweman]

Abortions were started to eliminate the black population.

 

[IM2]

is mostly done by other blacks. True, American history is littered with stories and incidents of injustice and not just to blacks either. And the democrat judges and DAs do nothing to stop it.

Bullshit. And whites are mostly killing other whites now to go along to all the white killing in the past.

 

[IM2]

In 1669 Virginia, the Casual Killing Act was enacted. This law exempted slave masters and those under the direction of slave masters from being charged with the murder of their slaves, if the murder occurred in an attempt to punish or correct them.

Casual Killing Act 1669: Declared It Legal To Kill A Slave While Correcting Because Malice Could Not Be Presumed

October, 1669. Act I: An act about the casual killing of slaves. Whereas the only law in force for the punishment of refractory servants resisting their master, mistress or overseer cannot be inflicted upon negroes, nor the obstinacy of many of them by other than violent means suppressed, Be it...

blackthen.com

And whites went on casually murdering blacks often without legal penalty until at least the murder of Medgar Evers. In Jasper Texas, it was not until the murder of James Byrd in 1998 that a white person was convicted of killing someone black. Still the case of Ahmaud Arbery was almost covered up in 2020.

So for you that was 150 years ago people, that's just a bs excuse and the only people using that excuse here have been the racists.

 

[LOIE]

Somehow, those words never made it into the final draft. Let's take a look and see.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Black people ... black people ... Nope, not there ... whew! I think we're OK

"The full Bill of Rights, with its ten amendments, was now ready for state ratification. As legal scholar Michael Waldman noted, however, the "other amendments pointed forward, the Second Amendment, backwards. In a landmark document whose preamble begins, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty," the Second Amendment continued to buttress slavery. The language is "what Patrick Henry claimed to want during the ratification debate in Richmond: a bribe to the south using control of black people as the payoff." And Madison delivered. Through awkward wording and punctuation about the right to bear arms and the well-regulated militia, he provided "another constitutional provision prohibiting congress from emasculating the south's primary instrument of slave control."

On September 25, 1789 congress sent the two amendments to the states. In less than two years, three-fourths of them had ratified the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment came into being on December 15, 1791, steeped in anti-blackness, swaddled in the desire to keep African-descended people rightless and powerless, and as yet another bone tossed to keep the south mollified and willing to stay aligned with the grand experiment of the United States of America."

by Carol Anderson

 

[task0778]

the Second Amendment continued to buttress slavery

This is utter nonsense. At the time, no state outlawed slavery and most of the framers of the Constitution reasoned that a union permitting states to allow slavery to exist temporarily was better than no union at all. Withholding explicit judgment of slavery in the text of the Constitution was seen as a necessary—though temporary—compromise. And BTW, "We the People", does not mention any distinction for race or color.

Through awkward wording and punctuation about the right to bear arms and the well-regulated militia, he provided "another constitutional provision prohibiting congress from emasculating the south's primary instrument of slave control."

Doesn't look awkward to me, actually it looks pretty straight forward. The 2nd Amendment has nothing at all to do with slave control. The fugitive slave clause did, but that isn't in the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Abatis]

I just finished a book titled “The Second,” by Carol Anderson. Here are some excerpts:

I had never heard of this explanation of how the Second Amendment came about and how much it had to do with race and slavery.

Yeah, I have heard that "explanation", it is garbage, at least as a source of legal and historical facts . . .

Anderson's book is neither new nor original. It is a rehash and mishmash of Carl Bogus' 1998 "The Hidden History of the Second Amendment".

"Hidden History" was just one of dozens of quickly forgotten articles announced in hastily arranged symposiums of anti-gun academics in the late 80's through the 90's, trying to build a body of work within leftist history departments featuring incestuous citations to each other, praying to be cited by some leftist judge somewhere. The "Hidden History" never received any notoriety, it died a lonely, undignified death with little recognition in the academic or legal worlds. . . .

Bogus' bogus theory was resurrected in 2013 by Thom Hartmann in his, "The Second Amendment Was Ratified to Preserve Slavery"

Within a week, Hartmann's rehash of Bogus was taken apart by a respected legal historian and a strong fellow anti-gunner in his own right, Paul Finkelman, Ph.D. You should read Finkelman's article to at least expose yourself to an oppositional argument to Bogus, Hartmann and now Anderson.

This theory of the 2ndA and its three proponents here cannot clear a fundamental flaw in their premise . . . Federal militia law applied to states, but the 2nd Amendment did not, it had no effect.

Southern states used the fact that under federal law, (Militia Act of 1792), Blacks were excluded from being enrolled in the militia, to craft their laws and legal arguments that the right to arms in their state constitution was only recognized for militia members. This also gave the state miliita's free reign to enforce state laws including the Slave Codes into the Black Codes, and every other law of subjugation and discrimination and brutality.

Understand, the 2nd Amendment had no effect on state actions. It is a convenient fabrication that it was the 2ndA that allowed the discrimination against Blacks, but it was militia law that governed and the state laws that directed their state's militia activity (and "Slave Patrols") were neither restrained or enhanced by the 2nd Amendment.

That the state militias, operating under federal militia law were the enforcers of the Black Codes, led to the Congress ordering southern state governors to disband their militias. That action led to the rise of the KKK and other White groups who continued doing what they were doing as organized state militia but kept doing it as private citizens. That led to one of the worst decisions in SCOTUS history, US v Cruikshank.

These charlatans have no legal / constitutional argument to stand on, the only reason Bogus' crap keeps getting regurgitated is it fits so many narratives of the cultural Marxists, the anti-Constitution / anti-2nd Amendment statist authoritarians and of course, the racial arsonists looking even to disparage our rights, for something to divide us, and they all love barking at the 2ndA / RKBA like Pavlov's dog.