Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
There are lots of anectdotal stories of kids getting transgender care, including hormones, and becoming much happier kids. There is a clear media bias in reporting these happy outcomes, and not reporting the high suicide rate of such children, but that is for another thread. My point in this one is that whatever beneficial effects may be seen from "gender affirming care" may be the result of the chemical effects of the hormones, without regard to the claim of gender dysphoria.
This mom of not one, but two children that she claims are transgender, talks about the effects of hormones on her depressed child before the supposed transgenderism became apparent. Keep in mind as you read this that she is talking about a female child, even though she uses a boys name and "he." She did not start to think of the child as "he" until after the first round of hormones. It was then that the supposed maleness "became more apparent."
Several years ago, my husband, four children and I brought a bonus child into our family as part of a mutually agreed upon intervention in a very difficult situation. “John” (not his real name) was 15 years old at the time, and struggling with severe depression and anxiety. He’d enter into extended periods of dissociation, where he’d simply sit and stare in a nearly catatonic state, not responding to outside stimuli.
John’s medical journey ended up being more harrowing than I anticipated.
We started with antidepressants and therapy. When he didn’t improve, we tried other medications and other therapists, some of whom were good and some of whom were not great. He was more intense when he was having a period, so we thought maybe he had Premenstrual dysphoric disorder, so we got him on birth control to stop periods. It wasn’t until we tried that that his gender dysphoria became more apparent. Even so, we were many times discouraged from treating his gender dysphoria. We searched for physicians, but were told no one in Twin Falls could help and the nearest medical professional with gender-affirming expertise was in Salt Lake City. I am grateful that our family had the means to take John to Salt Lake City for specialized treatment; I had the time to take him as someone who wouldn’t need to take time away from work, and our family had financial means. This is simply not the reality for so many families.
So this mom claims to have sussed out that "Joan" was reallly "John," and that was the reason for her seeming mental disorder. Mom must be really good at that, because she made the same amateur diagnosis for another of her children.
After an incredible amount of paperwork, permissions, sessions and visits, we finally got John on testosterone hormone therapy, and he began his transition. As soon as he started taking testosterone, he came back to life. He joked, laughed, was energetic, and was no longer talking about his death. He was completely and utterly changed. That was six years ago. John is attending college, and unless he reveals this information, people don’t know he is transgender. He is thriving now — a complete 180 degree turn from how he was when he first came into our family. Gender-affirming care saved his life. There is no question about that. He would not have lasted two or three more years without care.
Was it the gender affirming care that helped her out of the depression, or specifically the testosterone? Let's look at the research:
jamanetwork.com
Results Random-effects meta-analysis of 27 RCTs including 1890 men suggested that testosterone treatment is associated with a significant reduction in depressive symptoms compared with placebo (Hedges g, 0.21; 95% CI, 0.10-0.32), showing an efficacy of odds ratio (OR), 2.30 (95% CI, 1.30-4.06). There was no significant difference between acceptability of testosterone treatment and placebo (OR, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.61-1.01). Meta-regression models suggested significant interactions for testosterone treatment with dosage and symptom variability at baseline. In the most conservative bias scenario, testosterone treatment remained significant whenever dosages greater than 0.5 g/wk were administered and symptom variability was kept low.
Conclusions and Relevance Testosterone treatment appears to be effective and efficacious in reducing depressive symptoms in men, particularly when higher-dosage regimens were applied in carefully selected samples. However, given the heterogeneity of the included RCTs, more preregistered trials are needed that explicitly examine depression as the primary end point and consider relevant moderators.
Abstract
The biological plausibility for the effect of sex hormones on the central nervous system is now supported by a considerable amount of clinical data. This critical review guides the reader through the plethora of data, from the earliest reports of menstrual madness in the nineteenth century to neurobiological work in the new millennium. It illustrates through the scientific evidence base that, although the effect of estrogen on the central nervous system, particularly on mood and depression, remains a controversial area, there is now considerable evidence for the psychotherapeutic benefits of estrogens in the triad of hormone-responsive depressive disorders: postnatal depression, premenstrual depression and perimenopausal depression. The article also reviews the compelling data that testosterone supplementation has positive effects for depression, libido and energy, particularly where patients have only partially responded to estrogen therapy.
That last sounds like exactly what happened to "Joan." She responded badly to the female hormones in the birth control pills, but the male hormones had the positive effect on her depression, and energy, just as the the mom of two transgenders observed.
These are only two, studies, but there are numerous available. Google scholar search on "testosterone women depression" or some such and you will find dozens. All that I have seen used solid methodology, including control groups with placebos, double blind testing, and large sample sizes. There is also research "suggesting" improved mental health outcomes for people who get gender affirming care, but they often have poor methodology, never use placebos, and have sample sizes far smaller.
Not to mention that part of the gender affirming care is hormones, which is already well documented to have beneficial effects for people with depression. There is no attempt to isolate that variable.
The recent rapid rise in identification of transgender children has overwhelmingly been girls identifying as boys. Before we start lopping off children's breasts, and firing teacher for "misgendering" them, regular doctors (not "gender specialists") should try low dosage hormones based on research evidence.
This mom of not one, but two children that she claims are transgender, talks about the effects of hormones on her depressed child before the supposed transgenderism became apparent. Keep in mind as you read this that she is talking about a female child, even though she uses a boys name and "he." She did not start to think of the child as "he" until after the first round of hormones. It was then that the supposed maleness "became more apparent."
Several years ago, my husband, four children and I brought a bonus child into our family as part of a mutually agreed upon intervention in a very difficult situation. “John” (not his real name) was 15 years old at the time, and struggling with severe depression and anxiety. He’d enter into extended periods of dissociation, where he’d simply sit and stare in a nearly catatonic state, not responding to outside stimuli.
John’s medical journey ended up being more harrowing than I anticipated.
We started with antidepressants and therapy. When he didn’t improve, we tried other medications and other therapists, some of whom were good and some of whom were not great. He was more intense when he was having a period, so we thought maybe he had Premenstrual dysphoric disorder, so we got him on birth control to stop periods. It wasn’t until we tried that that his gender dysphoria became more apparent. Even so, we were many times discouraged from treating his gender dysphoria. We searched for physicians, but were told no one in Twin Falls could help and the nearest medical professional with gender-affirming expertise was in Salt Lake City. I am grateful that our family had the means to take John to Salt Lake City for specialized treatment; I had the time to take him as someone who wouldn’t need to take time away from work, and our family had financial means. This is simply not the reality for so many families.
So this mom claims to have sussed out that "Joan" was reallly "John," and that was the reason for her seeming mental disorder. Mom must be really good at that, because she made the same amateur diagnosis for another of her children.
After an incredible amount of paperwork, permissions, sessions and visits, we finally got John on testosterone hormone therapy, and he began his transition. As soon as he started taking testosterone, he came back to life. He joked, laughed, was energetic, and was no longer talking about his death. He was completely and utterly changed. That was six years ago. John is attending college, and unless he reveals this information, people don’t know he is transgender. He is thriving now — a complete 180 degree turn from how he was when he first came into our family. Gender-affirming care saved his life. There is no question about that. He would not have lasted two or three more years without care.
Was it the gender affirming care that helped her out of the depression, or specifically the testosterone? Let's look at the research:
Testosterone Treatment and Alleviation of Depression in Men
This systematic review and meta-analysis evaluates randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials to assess the association of testosterone therapy with alleviation of symptoms of depression in men.
jamanetwork.com
Results Random-effects meta-analysis of 27 RCTs including 1890 men suggested that testosterone treatment is associated with a significant reduction in depressive symptoms compared with placebo (Hedges g, 0.21; 95% CI, 0.10-0.32), showing an efficacy of odds ratio (OR), 2.30 (95% CI, 1.30-4.06). There was no significant difference between acceptability of testosterone treatment and placebo (OR, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.61-1.01). Meta-regression models suggested significant interactions for testosterone treatment with dosage and symptom variability at baseline. In the most conservative bias scenario, testosterone treatment remained significant whenever dosages greater than 0.5 g/wk were administered and symptom variability was kept low.
Conclusions and Relevance Testosterone treatment appears to be effective and efficacious in reducing depressive symptoms in men, particularly when higher-dosage regimens were applied in carefully selected samples. However, given the heterogeneity of the included RCTs, more preregistered trials are needed that explicitly examine depression as the primary end point and consider relevant moderators.
Hormones and depression in women
The biological plausibility for the effect of sex hormones on the central nervous system is now supported by a considerable amount of clinical data. This critical review guides the reader through t...
www.tandfonline.com
Abstract
The biological plausibility for the effect of sex hormones on the central nervous system is now supported by a considerable amount of clinical data. This critical review guides the reader through the plethora of data, from the earliest reports of menstrual madness in the nineteenth century to neurobiological work in the new millennium. It illustrates through the scientific evidence base that, although the effect of estrogen on the central nervous system, particularly on mood and depression, remains a controversial area, there is now considerable evidence for the psychotherapeutic benefits of estrogens in the triad of hormone-responsive depressive disorders: postnatal depression, premenstrual depression and perimenopausal depression. The article also reviews the compelling data that testosterone supplementation has positive effects for depression, libido and energy, particularly where patients have only partially responded to estrogen therapy.
That last sounds like exactly what happened to "Joan." She responded badly to the female hormones in the birth control pills, but the male hormones had the positive effect on her depression, and energy, just as the the mom of two transgenders observed.
These are only two, studies, but there are numerous available. Google scholar search on "testosterone women depression" or some such and you will find dozens. All that I have seen used solid methodology, including control groups with placebos, double blind testing, and large sample sizes. There is also research "suggesting" improved mental health outcomes for people who get gender affirming care, but they often have poor methodology, never use placebos, and have sample sizes far smaller.
Not to mention that part of the gender affirming care is hormones, which is already well documented to have beneficial effects for people with depression. There is no attempt to isolate that variable.
The recent rapid rise in identification of transgender children has overwhelmingly been girls identifying as boys. Before we start lopping off children's breasts, and firing teacher for "misgendering" them, regular doctors (not "gender specialists") should try low dosage hormones based on research evidence.
