The Right To Destroy Jewish History

[Shusha]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

 

[Shusha]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people ...

I disagree. The Palestinians have done an excellent job of controlling the narrative. And Israel does not define who is or who isn't a people. Israel hasn't rejected the Arab Palestinians as a distinct people for decades. Every since they, you know, actually became a distinct people.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

"The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."

Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.

2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.

I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here. I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.

First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions. I also reject #4. The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict. #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim. It is not the actual source.

And here is where we come back to the topic. The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity. The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion. Their history in that land goes back thousands of years. It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate. The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.

And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people. This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED. Irrevocably. If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared. And its working. UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.

Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.

What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.

I actually hear what you are saying. However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land. They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people. Deliberately. Intentionally. This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.

Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.

Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.

There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.

But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.

But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah). As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.

The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt. Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think. Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region. It is irreplaceable.

Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one? Or the Saudi one?

Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.

The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.

"It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.

The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column. Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.

There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history. It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.

The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria. They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.

Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.

Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.

"Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.

Is Jerusalem Muslim?
The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.

Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades, to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?

Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?

What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?

Do we understand the difference?

Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?

What is the difference?

 

[Shusha]

So, if it's a Jewish country, what about the Muslims who have lived in the region their whole life?

If they're trying to make it a Jewish country, what happens to Muslim or any other culture?

When Israel was granted the land by countries from nowhere near Israel, they displaced lots of people, took over and imposed their own culture on the land. To me that's a destruction of culture. It'd be impossible to do what Israel has done without that.

Sure. But you conveniently forget the other half of this equation.

What happened to the Jewish people who had lived in the region, not only their whole lives, but for thousands of years? When the various peoples right up to and including the Arab Muslims invaded and conquered the region what happened to the Jewish culture? An entirely foreign and separate culture was imposed on the Jewish people (over and over again). That is the destruction of a culture.

You seem to somehow want to argue that the Jewish people shouldn't be doing it to the Arabs in the region, without recognizing that it has ALREADY BEEN DONE to the Jewish people.

So what do we do with that?

 

[Sixties Fan]

At Camp David last July, Barak naively told Arafat that he was ready to give him control of most of Temple Mount, one way or another.

But he said that Palestinians must recognize the Jewish right to the lower part of the Mount, which includes the Western Wall and what is believed to be the hidden remains of the Second Temple.

Arafat immediately said no, insisting it all belongs to the Muslims, and that there never was a Temple Mount.

But the cultural destruction had already begun.

(full article online)

https://nypost.com/2001/04/22/temple-mount-artifacts-looted/

 

[Shusha]

Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one?

Interesting that you should mention the Egyptian culture. The indigenous Egyptian culture, though we have much documented about it, has been entirely lost. The language, the religion, the system of laws, their holidays and celebrations, the games they played, their clothing styles, most of their myths and legends. Lost.

 

[Coyote]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?

Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?

 

[Coyote]

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

"The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."

Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.

2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.

I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here. I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.

First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions. I also reject #4. The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict. #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim. It is not the actual source.

And here is where we come back to the topic. The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity. The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion. Their history in that land goes back thousands of years. It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate. The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.

And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people. This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED. Irrevocably. If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared. And its working. UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.

Well, yes, how they are handled matters. The problem in that area right now is that the right wing on both sides is using conflict to enhance their own positions.

What I meant by "it doesn't matter" is that the REALITY isn't important, it's the narrative that each side is producing that is important, that is what is pushing this whole thing, rather than the reality of whether this cultural site is "destroyed" or whatever. If the Palestinian people BELIEVE something has happened, or the Israeli people BELIEVE something has happened, then this is more important than whether it actually happened or not.

I actually hear what you are saying. However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land. They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people. Deliberately. Intentionally. This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.

Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.

Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.

There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.

But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.

But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah). As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.

The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt. Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think. Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region. It is irreplaceable.

Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one? Or the Saudi one?

Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.

The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.

"It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.

The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column. Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.

There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history. It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.

The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria. They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.

Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.

Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.

"Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.

Is Jerusalem Muslim?
The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.

Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades, to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?

Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?

What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?

Do we understand the difference?

Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?

What is the difference?

And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal. You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues, but it is there none the less.

 

[abi]

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

And of everything that the zionists do to demonize Israel, this is some of the most heinous.

 

[Coyote]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?

Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?

According to the historical records that is a false narrative that is repeated so often it becomes part of the established history. Most fled due to fear of conflict. A number were expelled by Jewish militias. Some were told to flee by Arab leaders but there is little evidence to indicate that was a major factor compared to the other 2 reasons.

 

[admonit]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?

 

[Coyote]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?

Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks? And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.

This is trying to erase Nakbah.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?

Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks? And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.

This is trying to erase Nakbah.

It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."

 

[abi]

It's insulting to Israel to call its creation and independence a "catastrophe."

Funny.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

"The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars."

Claims for the land of Israel/Palestine to be Jewish are stated here. 1) is that "God promised the land" to them. That's pretty far fetched from where I'm sitting to use your own religion as justification for kicking other people off the land.

2) is probably the only one with any real substance here. That they have been a presence in the land, along with the Muslims, means that both should share the land, rather than trying to claim it all.

I'm going to try really hard to stay on topic here. I think you are trying to drag it off course because you can't actually find any instances of Israel deliberately destroying Arab Palestinian culture and yet somehow want to demonize Israel anyway.

First, be clear -- I reject the premise of #1, listed above. Religion, as important as it is to the people who practice it (including me), should never be the basis of political decisions. I also reject #4. The rights and claims of the Jewish people have nothing to do with the result of any conflict. #3 is simply the international acknowledgement of the source of Jewish claim. It is not the actual source.

And here is where we come back to the topic. The Jewish claim to the territory as a homeland for the Jewish people is based on their ancestral, historical, ethnic and religious indigeneity. The Jewish people originated on that land, pre-conquest and pre-invasion. Their history in that land goes back thousands of years. It manifests in their language, their laws, their myths, the clothing they wear, the foods they eat, the holidays they celebrate. The evidence is wide and deep and varied and there can be absolutely no question of the veracity of this.

And yet the Arabs not only question the veracity of this -- they actively attempt to erase the history of the Jewish people. This is a strategy is employed, not to have the Arab narrative amplified but to have the Jewish narrative SILENCED. Irrevocably. If there is no evidence that the Jewish people's homeland is in this place, if there is only evidence of Arab occupation, then the Jewish people can be disappeared. And its working. UNESCO has erased the Jewish connection to places like Jerusalem's Old City and the Temple Mount and to Hevron.

I actually hear what you are saying. However, the Arabs (and not just the Palestinians) are using the actual destruction of history as evidence that the Jewish people don't have a history in that land. They are creating a false reality, a false historical record, to erase the Jewish people. Deliberately. Intentionally. This is VASTLY different than Israel being insensitive about a Muslim burial ground.

Well, both sides are creating a false narrative.

Israel is pushing conflict for a reason, and that reason is an excuse to push the boundaries of the state. Without conflict they could never get the support to do this.

There are different ways to try and do this, they're all bad, but this doesn't mean that Israel is any less guilty of trying to destroy culture in order to try and control the narrative.

But Israel is NOT destroying culture to control the narrative.

But Team Israel IS in the sense they are denying the Palestinians right to their own culture (referring to them as just Arabs) and narrative (Nakbah). As Team Palestine is doing to the Jews - marginalize, minimalize, and erase.

The destruction of artifacts though is beyond contempt. Anothet reason why those places should be under Israeli control I think. Their leadership has shown a willingness and ability to preserve and understand the history and archeology of the region. It is irreplaceable.

Could you point out the difference between the Palestinian culture and the Egyptian one? Or the Saudi one?

Nakbah is the Arab cry for not having destroyed Israel in 1948 and ending up not being able to return to the land where Israel sits because the Arabs Leaders told them to leave.

The Catastrophe (Nakbah) was the Arabs listening to their Arab leaders to begin with.

"It will only take two weeks to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews" was the saying they heard.

The Arab leaders failed, lost their attacks, war on Israel and most Arabs (as they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews) have not been allowed to return as they would be a fifth column. Just like the many Arabs who do live in Israel and are even in the Knesset and do everything they can to erase the History of the country.

There is absolutely nothing to marginalize, minimalize, and erase about Palestinian history. It starts in 1964 when Arafat with the KGB formulated that identity for the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.

The Arabs themselves are proud to say that they saw themselves as part of greater Syria and wanted to be part of Syria. They were not fighting for a region or country named Palestine.

Therefore, "Team Israel" has truly never denied the Arabs rights to live on the land, or even to partition the land and have them have their own Arab State after another Arab clan took 78% of the Jewish homeland for themselves and do not allow Jews to live on it again since 1925.

Team Israel has even offered 98% of its most ancient land with the eastern part of Jerusalem as their capital.

"Team Palestine" needs to put the Arab leaders to answer the why they have rejected two partitions and many peace offerings, and especially why they have gone to UNESCO to turn all Jewish Holy Sites into Muslim ones.

Is Jerusalem Muslim?
The Arabs want the world to accept Jerusalem as a Muslim holy site only.

Where has Israel ever tried to negate the rights of the Arabs who lived on the land for centuries, or even a few decades, to any part of the mandate for Palestine to be turned into their own State?

Has Israel denied the Muslims their holy sites or access to them?

What happens to Jews who want to visit the Temple Mount, the Cave or the Tombs? Or any other Jewish Holy site?

Do we understand the difference?

Is there really a difference in culture between a Palestinian one and all other Arab clans or countries?

What is the difference?

And right here is an example of the. Denial Shusha says does not exist. The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal. You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues, but it is there none the less.

I will say it one more time.

You, Coyote, for whichever reason, is unable to understand what actually happened in 1948 after Israel declared Independence.
You do not seem to know or understand all the pieces which were going on at the same time, all the Arab leaders, the Arab League and the decisions they made for the whole Arab population i
n Israel, Gaza , Judea and Samaria.

Until you grasp an understanding of the facts of history, and not narratives from one side or another, I do not see that you or any other well meaning person as you are can evolve beyond what a group of people who have endlessly said and written that they wish to see Israel destroyed and all Jews killed are and always have been about since 1920.

I do not divert anything. I have been giving you HISTORY, which is the most important thing to any people.

Without history, without facts, anyone can come and take anyone's identity away.

No different than someone suddenly getting a hold of title to your house or car, the real thing or a false one......and what happens then?
How long before one loses one house or car by those who wanted it?

The Palestinians are a people who DID NOT consider themselves Palestinians before Arafat came up with the idea with the KGB in 1964. That is a fact which No One can change.

I have said it very clearly, the Arabs who were living on the land until 1948 were more than welcome to work on their own State as there had been a partition proposal since 1937 and the Jews accepted that.

I have no way of knowing what sources you read, or listen to.......and I cannot change your mind with historical facts you are unable to see.

There are 1.2 Million Arab Muslims and Christians in Israel. Many are citizens. Many are applying to become citizens. They have jobs, health care, representation in the Knesset, etc, etc.

And does not even include all the Arabs who live in Areas A and B who come to work, study and for health care.

The same used to be true about the Arabs in Gaza until about 2000.
They still get weekly health from Israel and get to come into Israel for health issues, including the Leaders.

Contrast that with how many Jews work, study or get any health care in Gaza or Areas A and B.

There was a Nakba? Yes, there was. One of the Arab leaders making. The Palestinians will say so themselves. There are videos of some villagers filmed by Iranian TV on how they were told to leave by their leaders. Or by the Jordanian soldiers.

The Nakba is a catastrophe brought by the leaders on the Arabs who were made to flee in order to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel.
That is a fact no one can change.
The catastrophe was 5 Arab Armies losing to a much small number of Jews who had to fight for their survival.

And let me bring a historical fact you may forget.

This is ONLY three years after the discovery of what Germany had done to the Jews of Europe.

And it is about Seven years after the Palestinian Arab Leader Husseini
went to Iraq and incited the Arab population there to riot against the Jews there. Nearly 2000 dead, many thousands more injured.

THAT is the mentality going on with the Arab leaders, one of them Husseini himself.


INTENT is very much what determines how history is to look at an event, and NOT the narrative of one side or another.

The INTENT of the Arabs was to kill all Jews.

Had they succeeded, are you still reading this, how much of a shrug would it have gotten as the massacre in Iraq did. Or what kept happening during WWII which was endlessly shrugged and ignored until the concentration camps were opened?

I want you to think, Coyote. As long as it takes you to do it. Research and all. I know you can.

History matters. Period.

Patterns matter. 1300 years of Muslim on Jews pattern does matter.

 

[Shusha]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Just like I said. No one denies it happened. They just challenge the narrative. The Israeli government is exactly right in not promoting the creation of the State as a "catastrophe" within that State. It promotes hostility.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Is there a lack of understanding here that the Arab Leaders chose to declare war on newly independent Israel and they lost the game they played? The one where they told the population to leave and return in two weeks when the Arabs would have won their assault on Israel and destroyed the new country and killed all the Jews?

Can one understand that if the Arab leaders had not told the Arab population in the south to leave, that they would still be living there today, just as all the Arab villages and other Arabs who remained in Israel in the northern part of the country?

According to the historical records that is a false narrative that is repeated so often it becomes part of the established history. Most fled due to fear of conflict. A number were expelled by Jewish militias. Some were told to flee by Arab leaders but there is little evidence to indicate that was a major factor compared to the other 2 reasons.

You do not seem to have the smallest idea of what war is.

When ISIS attacked the Yazidis did they just stay or many got to flee to the Kurdish area?
What happened to the ones who were caught?

During WWII did Jews mostly stay where they were or try to flee?
We do know what happened to those who stayed.

So, by your reasoning, the Arab population had no reason to be afraid of the Jews, especially as they were told via radio by their leaders they should flee.

Sure some of them fled because the Israel in some cases told some tall stories to make the Arabs afraid and flee.
Would it have been better if Israel had not done so and imprisoned or killed all of those people?

Why would the Arabs agree to leave in the south, when they did not in the northern part of Israel?

Those who were expelled by Israel, it is mainly because they had weapons, they were shooting at Jews, attacking Jews, and like any other enemy, one tries to defeat them.

I will ask again.
Should Israel have shot all of them or imprisoned them, instead of expelling those who had in mind to kill Jews?

Logic please !!!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel as victor over the Palestinians controls the narrative. That means they can define who is and who isn't a people or that events like Nakbah are fictional. They are not destroying or altering artifacts however. And thst is a difference.

Seriously? No one denies that the Nakba happened. They challenge the narrative, but no one denies it happened.

Yes they do...when the Israeli narrative diverges so far from the Palestinian one that essentially disenfranchises it then yes it is a denial.

1948 no catastrophe says Israel, as term nakba banned from Arab children's textbooks

Why Israeli textbooks should include the term, that describes the creation of Israel in 1948 as a "catastrophe"?

Why should Germany put the Holocaust in their textbooks? And no I am not trying to make a moral equivalency.

This is trying to erase Nakbah.

You are clearly not aware of what you have written.

Think about it.

 

[Shusha]

And right here is an example of the denial Shusha says does not exist. The Palestinians arent a real people and Nakba is no big deal. You are far more eloquent in your wording and divert onto other issues, but it is there none the less.

Are we reading the same post? He said neither of these things.