The reality of global warming.

[Old Rocks]

Today we live in a world that is rapidly changing. And the rate of change is accelerating. The men and women that study the natural world have reached an overwhelming consensus on the cause of this change. It is the burning of fossil fuels, increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by almost 40%. Every scientific society in the world, every National Academy of Science, and every major university, has published policy statements to this effect. So why are their people that are questioning the science?

Their objections have little to do with the evidence, rather it is the protection of the present people that are profiting off of the use of the fossil fuels that they are trying to protect. They have yet to offer a single acceptable theory as to why the CO2 is not the cause of the present warming. Nor can they explain the melting of the glaciers and polar caps by denying the fact of the warming.

It is time for us, as a society, to address this problem. If we fail to do so, we doom our children and grandchildren to some very difficult times.

 

[Skeptik]

The average temperature of the globe is increasing.

Part of that increase is due to cyclical changes in the climate of the Earth, so the heandinthesanders keep telling us that it's all natural.

Most of the change is not natural, and is due to the burning of fossil fuels. Some of the change is due to warming, the cause becoming the effect, and the effect the cause. Warmer weather melts ice caps faster, for example, and the resulting water absorbs more heat than the ice it replaced. Melting permafrost, as another example, releases methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

Global climate change has been made into a partisan issue, most likely due to th fact that Al Gore, who has been beating the drum for awareness, is a Democrat.

If a Democrat says something, whether or not it is a political statement, then a Republican has to refute it. That's just the natural order of things political.

So, the itainthappenin argument is based on phobia, to be specific, it's called algoraphobia.

But, the logical question to ask once we accept the truth is this:

Can we reverse global climate change?

 

[Old Rocks]

Unfortunetely, the answer is, not in our lifetimes. There is about a 50 year lag in the effects from the present level of greenhouse gases. We can, by scaling the emmissions of greenhouse gases back by at least 80% in a decade, fix the problem so that it is less of a problem for our grandchildren. Unless, of course, we have crossed a tipping point that we do not know about. That is a distinct possibility. Were that to the case, then the fat is in the fire, and we are in a survival situation for us, as a species.

 

[editec]

I sometimes wonder if the masters of the universe, recognizing that the carbon footprint of 6+ billion people is unsustainable, are screwing up the world (politically and economically, I mean) on purpose.

If the world is thrown into a really serious worldwide depression we could easily see two billion people starved off in a year or so.

Tamper with the system enough and you could starve off half the world's population.

Hey, the above isn't a theory I adhere to, it's merely one of my idle speculations as I'm trying to figure out how such smart people as the world's elite can collectively do so many dumb things.

 

[52ndStreet]

The Earth has been going through cyclical Climate change for many Billions of years.
Humans have nothing to do with the Earth getting warmer or colder.

The human effect is neglegble. Less than 0.8%

Volcanoes emit more CO2 gases than all the human population on the Earth combined. The Earth's
Oceans release Billions of Tons of methane gas, which causes a more rapid increase in the Earth's temperature, than CO2 gases.

And Scientists are discovering that Sun spot activity on the surface of the Sun, has
a direct effect on the Earth's overall temperature.

Human Global Warming is all media and Left wing liberal, and Green freaks hype!.

 

[Skeptik]

The Earth has been going through cyclical Climate change for many Billions of years.
Humans have nothing to do with the Earth getting warmer or colder.

The human effect is neglegble. Less than 0.8%

Volcanoes emit more CO2 gases than all the human population on the Earth combined. The Earth's
Oceans release Billions of Tons of methane gas, which causes a more rapid increase in the Earth's temperature, than CO2 gases.

And Scientists are discovering that Sun spot activity on the surface of the Sun, has
a direct effect on the Earth's overall temperature.

Human Global Warming is all media and Left wing liberal, and Green freaks hype!.

Is that based on the algoraphobia I described above, is it simply wishful thinking, or is it something else?

 

[52ndStreet]

Is that based on the algoraphobia I described above, is it simply wishful thinking, or is it something else?

Like I said in my post, algoraphobia, Al Gore, wishful thinking ,humans, have
nothing to do with the Earth going through its natural cycle of "Earth cyclical climate change".
This has been happening for billions of years.

The Earth goes through its own natural cycles of hot and cold. It has been happening before humans started to release our small amounts of CO2 gases.

The Earth's Oceans emit billions of tons of methane gas,which has been confirmed to speed up the Earth's temperature a lot faster than CO2 gases.
The many Volcanoes emit CO2 gases also.

And now Scientists are realizing that the Sun's Sun spot activity is directly
influencing the Earth's overall temperature.
And now Scientists have found Billions of tons of Ice in the North Pole that
has Billions of tons of methane gases frozen in the Ice. They actually cut
a piece of the ice from a lake , and set it on fire!

 

[Skeptik]

Like I said in my post, algoraphobia, Al Gore, wishful thinking ,humans, have
nothing to do with the Earth going through its natural cycle of "Earth cyclical climate change".
This has been happening for billions of years.

The Earth goes through its own natural cycles of hot and cold. It has been happening before humans started to release our small amounts of CO2 gases.

The Earth's Oceans emit billions of tons of methane gas,which has been confirmed to speed up the Earth's temperature a lot faster than CO2 gases.
The many Volcanoes emit CO2 gases also.

And now Scientists are realizing that the Sun's Sun spot activity is directly
influencing the Earth's overall temperature.
And now Scientists have found Billions of tons of Ice in the North Pole that
has Billions of tons of methane gases frozen in the Ice. They actually cut
a piece of the ice from a lake , and set it on fire!

Yes, I believe I said that in my post:

Part of that increase is due to cyclical changes in the climate of the Earth, so the heandinthesanders keep telling us that it's all natural.

It's not all natural, however, and is proceding much more rapidly than it has in the past.

 

[52ndStreet]

Yes, I believe I said that in my post:



It's not all natural, however, and is proceding much more rapidly than it has in the past.

It is not proceeding at a much more rapid pace now, as was the case in the past. It is proceeding at the same pace now, as it was in the Past.
Human Global warming is all media hype,its all false. You have been lied to, scammed.!

 

[Old Rocks]

[This story embargoed until 5 PM ET June 26, 2006 to coincide with publication in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.]

FIRST COMPILATION OF TROPICAL ICE CORES SHOWS TWO ABRUPT GLOBAL CLIMATE SHIFTS ONE 5,000 YEARS AGO AND ONE CURRENTLY UNDERWAY
COLUMBUS , Ohio For the first time, glaciologists have combined and compared sets of ancient climate records trapped in ice cores from the South American Andes and the Asian Himalayas to paint a picture of how climate has changed and is still changing in the tropics.






Lonnie Thompson
Their conclusions mark a massive climate shift to a cooler regime that occurred just over 5,000 years ago, and a more recent reversal to a much warmer world within the last 50 years.

The evidence also suggests that most of the high-altitude glaciers in the planet's tropical regions will disappear in the near future. The paper is included in the current issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

Lastly, the research shows that in most of the world, glaciers and ice caps are rapidly retreating, even in areas where precipitation increases are documented. This implicates increasing temperatures and not decreasing precipitation as the most likely culprit.

The researchers from Ohio State University's Byrd Polar Research Center and three other universities combined the chronological climate records retrieved from seven remote locations north and south of the equator. Cores drilled through ice caps and glaciers there have captured a climate history of each region, in some cases, providing annual records and in others decadal averages.

Approximately 70 percent of the world's population now lives in the tropics so when climate changes there, the impacts are likely to be enormous, explains Lonnie Thompson, professor of geological sciences at Ohio State.

For the last three decades, Thompson has led nearly 50 expeditions to remote ice caps and glaciers to drill cores through them and retrieve climate records. This study includes cores taken from the Huascaran and Quelccaya ice caps in Peru; the Sajama ice cap in Bolivia; the Dunde, Guliya, Puruogangri and Dasuopu ice caps in China.

For each of these cores, the team -- including research partner Ellen Mosley-Thompson, professor of geography at Ohio State extracted chronological measurements of the ratio of two oxygen isotopes -- O18 and O16 -- whose ratio serves as an indicator of air temperature at the time the ice was formed. All seven cores provided clear annual records of the isotope ratios for the last 400 years and decadally averaged records dating back 2000 years.


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Our climate system is sensitive, and it can change abruptly due to either natural or to human forces. If what happened 5,000 years ago were to happen today, it would have far-reaching social and economic implications for the entire planet. The take-home message is that global climate can change abruptly, and with 6.5 billion people inhabiting the planet, that's serious.





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We have a record going back 2,000 years and when you plot it out, you can see the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) and the Little Ice Age (LIA), Thompson said. During the MWP, 700 to 1000 years ago, the climate warmed in some parts of the world. The MWP was followed by the LIA, a sudden onset of colder temperatures marked by advancing glaciers in Europe and North America .

And in that same record, you can clearly see the 20th Century and the thing that stands out whether you look at individual cores or the composite of all seven is how unusually warm the last 50 years have been.

There hasn't been anything in the record like it not even the MWP, Thompson said.

The fact that the isotope values in the last 50 years have been so unusual means that things are dramatically changing. That's the real story here.

While the isotope evidence is clear throughout all of the cores, Thompson says that the more dramatic evidence is the emergence of unfossilized wetland plants around the margin of the Quelccaya ice cap, uncovered as the ice retreated in recent years.

First discovered in 2002, the researchers have since identified 28 separate sites near the margin of the ice cap where these ancient plants have been exposed. Carbon-dating revealed that the plants range in age from 5,000 to 6,500 years old.

This means that the climate at the ice cap hasn't been warmer than it is today in the last 5,000 years or more, Thompson said. If it had been, then the plants would have decayed.

The researchers say a major climate shift around 5,000 years ago in the tropics had to have cooled the region since the ice cap quickly expanded and covered the plants. The fact that they are now being exposed indicates that the opposite has occurred the region has warmed dramatically, causing the ice cap to quickly melt.

The role of precipitation in the global retreat of alpine glaciers may have been clarified by this study. Some researchers, convinced that a reduction in local precipitation is causing their retreat, have been skeptical about the role of rising temperatures.

While all the glaciers we have measured throughout the tropics are retreating, the local precipitation at all of these sites but one, has increased over the last century, Thompson said. That means that the retreat of the ice is driven mainly by rising temperatures.

Changes in the oxygen isotope ratios over the past 100 years have also pointed to temperature, rather than precipitation, as the engine driving glacial retreat, he said.

Tropical glaciers are the canaries in the coal mine' for our global climate system, he says, as they integrate and respond to most of the key climatological variables temperature, precipitation, cloudiness, humidity and radiation.

Thompson said that the evidence arising from the tropics is particularly important. The uniformity of the climate in the tropics makes these kinds of records so critical since they tell us what is happening to global temperatures.

What this is really telling us is that our climate system is sensitive, it can change abruptly due to either natural or to human forces, he said. If what happened 5,000 years ago were to happen today, it would have far-reaching social and economic implications for the entire planet.

The take-home message is that global climate can change abruptly, and with 6.5 billion people inhabiting the planet, that's serious.

Working along with Thompson and Mosley-Thompson on the project were Henry Brecher, Mary Davis, Ping-Nan Lin and Tracy Mashiotta, all with the Byrd Center; Blanca Leon of the University of Texas; Don Les of the University of Connecticut, and Keith Mountain of the University of Louisville.

Support for the research came from the National Science Foundation, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Ohio State.



#


Contact: Lonnie Thompson (614) 292-6652; [email protected].

 

[Old Rocks]

Once again, mankind emits more than 150 times as much CO2 as all the volcanos in the world. That is a USGS figure. The oceans at present emit very little methane, as methane fixing bacteria metabolize most of it before it ever reachs surface. However, there is a huge amount of methane in the hydrate within the sediments on the continental shelves. Shoud this become destabalized, as by the heating of the ocean, it would cause a major extinction. This has occured several times in the geological record, most notably during the Permian-Triassic extinction.

 

[52ndStreet]

Once again, mankind emits more than 150 times as much CO2 as all the volcanos in the world. That is a USGS figure. The oceans at present emit very little methane, as methane fixing bacteria metabolize most of it before it ever reachs surface. However, there is a huge amount of methane in the hydrate within the sediments on the continental shelves. Shoud this become destabalized, as by the heating of the ocean, it would cause a major extinction. This has occured several times in the geological record, most notably during the Permian-Triassic extinction.

And Scientists have eveidence that the Oceans methane is being released again. Also, they have found melting Ice that is releasing trapped prehistoric methane from thousands of years ago, in the north, and south pole.This methane is not consumed by any Oceanic bacteria.Please do a Google search on this issue if you doubt my information.!

And Humans do not emit more CO2 than volcanoes.This information is inaccurate.! Google search that item also.!

 

[Old Rocks]

Volcanic gases are the driving force of eruptions

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Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!
Volcanic co2 Emission Vs Human | Clipmarks

 

[Old Rocks]

Carbon dioxide (CO2)
Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. This colorless, odorless gas usually does not pose a direct hazard to life because it typically becomes diluted to low concentrations very quickly whether it is released continuously from the ground or during episodic eruptions. But in certain circumstances, CO2 may become concentrated at levels lethal to people and animals. Carbon dioxide gas is heavier than air and the gas can flow into in low-lying areas; breathing air with more than 30% CO2 can quickly induce unconsciousness and cause death. In volcanic or other areas where CO2 emissions occur, it is important to avoid small depressions and low areas that might be CO2 traps. The boundary between air and lethal gas can be extremely sharp; even a single step upslope may be adequate to escape death.


CO2 trapped in depressions can be lethal to people and animals
When a burning piece of cloth is lowered into a hole that has a high concentration of CO2, the fire goes out. Such a condition can be lethal to people and animals.

Air with 5% CO2 causes perceptible increased respiration; 6-10% results in shortness of breath, headaches, dizziness, sweating, and general restlessness; 10-15% causes impaired coordination and abrupt muscle contractions; 20-30% causes loss of consciousness and convulsions; over 30% can cause death (Hathaway et. al., 1991).

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects

 

[Old Rocks]

The permafrost methane release that you speak of is well known, and directly related to the present global warming that we are observing. It is called a feedback effect. When the results of this, and other feedbacks effects, are putting more greenhouses gases in the atmosphere than we are, then the game is up. This has happened in the geological past, triggered by geologic events, and has resulted in major extinctions. We have, by direct measurement, increased the CO2 content of our atmosphere by almost 40%. That is the driver of the present warming that we are seeing.

 

[Skeptik]

And Scientists have eveidence that the Oceans methane is being released again. Also, they have found melting Ice that is releasing trapped prehistoric methane from thousands of years ago, in the north, and south pole.This methane is not consumed by any Oceanic bacteria.Please do a Google search on this issue if you doubt my information.!

And Humans do not emit more CO2 than volcanoes.This information is inaccurate.! Google search that item also.!

And there you have it, folks, proof positive that some guy who calls himself 52ndStreet and posts on this forum says that it's all natural. What more proof do you need? Why would anyone want to listen to a bunch of nerdy scientists with their PhD's? Why listen to a bunch of boring old facts, when you can just take the anonymous posts at face value.

And, of course, if you doubt his information, you can google it yourself!

But, if you do, you will see that Oldrocks and I are right, and 52ndStreet is simply regurgitating hooey he has heard somewhere, probably on Limbaugh or some other unimpeachable source.

But, don't take my word for it. I'm just another guy posting anonymously on an internet forum. I don't even have a PhD. Read what the actual climatologists are saying, take in the National Geographic Society, or perhaps the editors of Discover Magazine. On the one hand, you have science, on the other Limbaugh. Which one do you think is most credible?

 

[52ndStreet]

The permafrost methane release that you speak of is well known, and directly related to the present global warming that we are observing. It is called a feedback effect. When the results of this, and other feedbacks effects, are putting more greenhouses gases in the atmosphere than we are, then the game is up. This has happened in the geological past, triggered by geologic events, and has resulted in major extinctions. We have, by direct measurement, increased the CO2 content of our atmosphere by almost 40%. That is the driver of the present warming that we are seeing.

So now, when you combine all these factors, permafrost methane,Volcanic
CO2,Oceanic Methane,and Sunspot activity.Do still feel that Humans are
responsible for Global Warming.?The answer is No!. Human global warming is all
false.The Scientific data is all manipulated, and inaccurate,skewed,to validate
a left wing scientific green agenda.

 

[Old Rocks]

So now, when you combine all these factors, permafrost methane,Volcanic
CO2,Oceanic Methane,and Sunspot activity.Do still feel that Humans are
responsible for Global Warming.?The answer is No!. Human global warming is all
false.The Scientific data is all manipulated, and inaccurate,skewed,to validate
a left wing scientific green agenda.

What you are saying is that there is an international conspiracy involving millions of scientists lying to prove something that doesn't exist. Yet, anyone can go to the Glacier National Park, which had 150 glaciers when declared a park and named. Today there are about 30. By 2030, they will be gone. You can see this in every mountain range in the world. How the hell do you manipulate all the glaciers in the world? Google drunken forests and alaska. Google Greenland Ice Cap melt. All the people that are taking pictures in Alaska are lying? The people that are measuring the ice in Greenland, both on the ground, and through satellite, are lying? Since these people are from many differant nations, this is one gigantic conspiracy?

 

[Skeptik]

You can test your knowledge of global warming here: Global Warming Facts, Global Warming Information, Global Warming Questions, Quiz - National Geographic

And, there is a wealth of information here:

Global Warming Interactive, Global Warming Simulation, Climate Change Simulation - National Geographic

None of which is from a "left wing conspiracy" website, but from an apolitical journal that leans toward science, and away from wishful thinking.

See what you think.

 

[52ndStreet]

What you are saying is that there is an international conspiracy involving millions of scientists lying to prove something that doesn't exist. Yet, anyone can go to the Glacier National Park, which had 150 glaciers when declared a park and named. Today there are about 30. By 2030, they will be gone. You can see this in every mountain range in the world. How the hell do you manipulate all the glaciers in the world? Google drunken forests and alaska. Google Greenland Ice Cap melt. All the people that are taking pictures in Alaska are lying? The people that are measuring the ice in Greenland, both on the ground, and through satellite, are lying? Since these people are from many differant nations, this is one gigantic conspiracy?

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying, "one gigantic conspiracy", that is being pertrated by economicaly hard up scientist, and or scientific community, who are in need of cash, in these economicly tight times.