The Problem with Barack Obama... to me...

[mudwhistle]

Love how a ten year engagement in Afghanistan is "cut and run"

It's simple....first of all it isn't 10 years....try 9...secondly Obama wasn't President during most of it but no sooner do things get tough for him he wants to quit.

First he proclaimed it was the good war...then he said he would not rest until it was won.....now he wants to bail out on a fixed date regardless of whether we have a victory or not. He's gonna take a full year to build up our forces and within 6 months he's gonna start pulling them out.

That's called Cutting and Running.

We have at least two more years before we start to withdraw troops. He never said anything close to he would not rest until it was won.....you are making that up

Victory is defined as Afhanistan defending itself. If they cannot build the capability to control their own country after more than ten years they never will

When Bush pulled troops to attack Iraq...was that "cut and run"??

You don't know what you're talking about.

Afghanistan was mostly a Special Op war. Green Berets directing indigenous forces to defeat the Taliban.

It worked marvelously.

We've been slowly building up our forces in Afghanistan since the war was won but not fast enough for dickheads like Obama who claimed for years that Afghanistan was the place we should be...not Iraq. He said Afghanistan had to be won in his first couple of months in office. Now he's worried about the costs and the political damage it's causing him. Personally I think we should pull out now. And I say this because I know Obama doesn't have the stomach for it.

He never wanted to win. He just wanted to wait for the opportunity to leave. But he talked like a bad-ass when it was easy to do. Now he has a real problem and his solution is half-assed and will end up in nothing but a huge cost in lives and dollars.

 

[mudwhistle]

You can't get credit for a surge when it was your own inept strategy to invade Iraq with minimal troops and declare "Mission Accomplished" that allowed the insurgents to take hold

If Bush had ignored Rumsfeld and listened to Shinseki we would have been out of Iraq by 2007

That "Mission Accomplished" sign was put up for the ships crew. They were being congratulated for a job well done after a long deployment. It had nothing to do with the continuing mission in Iraq....but lying assholes like you keep saying it did. It did not, I repeat...DID NOT...mean the mission was finished....I guess seeing Bush wearing that flightsuit and getting all of that love from the crew really steamed your britches didn't it?

Oh, and the goal was never to get out. It was to make sure the place was never a threat again....which means staying for awhile like we did in Germany and Japan.

Jesus you're a fucken idiot.

 

[rightwinger]

It's simple....first of all it isn't 10 years....try 9...secondly Obama wasn't President during most of it but no sooner do things get tough for him he wants to quit.

First he proclaimed it was the good war...then he said he would not rest until it was won.....now he wants to bail out on a fixed date regardless of whether we have a victory or not. He's gonna take a full year to build up our forces and within 6 months he's gonna start pulling them out.

That's called Cutting and Running.

We have at least two more years before we start to withdraw troops. He never said anything close to he would not rest until it was won.....you are making that up

Victory is defined as Afhanistan defending itself. If they cannot build the capability to control their own country after more than ten years they never will

When Bush pulled troops to attack Iraq...was that "cut and run"??

You don't know what you're talking about.

Afghanistan was mostly a Special Op war. Green Berets directing indigenous forces to defeat the Taliban.

It worked marvelously.

We've been slowly building up our forces in Afghanistan since the war was won but not fast enough for dickheads like Obama who claimed for years that Afghanistan was the place we should be...not Iraq. He said Afghanistan had to be won in his first couple of months in office. Now he's worried about the costs and the political damage it's causing him. Personally I think we should pull out now. And I say this because I know Obama doesn't have the stomach for it.

He never wanted to win. He just wanted to wait for the opportunity to leave. But he talked like a bad-ass when it was easy to do. Now he has a real problem and his solution is half-assed and will end up in nothing but a huge cost in lives and dollars.

Oh My God!

Are you serious? Don't you realize we had the Taliban defeated and driven out of the provinces? By pulling our regular troops Bush allowed the Taliban to reestablish itself.

Obama wouldn't have to reclaim lost ground if Bush had not given it back to the Taliban

 

[geauxtohell]

Strange how Obama wants to surge but never admitted that the surge in Iraq ever worked. This new policy is an open admission that he thinks it did.

Except that he did.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udt92OwPOgs[/ame]

After that, is there any point in addressing the rest of your points?

If you wait long enough liars [Democrats] evenually expose themselves.

Problem being that most people aren't smart enough to figure out that it happened. In most cases you have to point it out to them.

I have zero confidence that this surge will work in Afghanistan. It's basically a cheap imitation of the Bush surge.....with cut & run date being included to assure failure.

Funny...what I heard was him refusing to give credit where credit is due.

He said the surge worked in ways even Bush didn't think it would.

Which is the same thing as saying Bush succeeded by accident but not saying the word "succeeded".

He never wants to show any class and admit Bush was right about anything.

So in effect he says the troops succeeded but Bush wasn't responsible for anything at all...which means he still says Bush failed.

This is a very small man this Obama guy.

Of course you don't. Couldn't admit we were wrong about something, could we?

 

[geauxtohell]

It's simple....first of all it isn't 10 years....try 9...secondly Obama wasn't President during most of it but no sooner do things get tough for him he wants to quit.

First he proclaimed it was the good war...then he said he would not rest until it was won.....now he wants to bail out on a fixed date regardless of whether we have a victory or not. He's gonna take a full year to build up our forces and within 6 months he's gonna start pulling them out.

That's called Cutting and Running.

I applaud him for not giving the Afghan government the luxury of an open ended commitment.

Secondly, it's irrelevant how long Obama has been running the show. What is relevant, is the perception on the Afghan street, which is that we have overstayed our welcome. When the public stops seeing us as liberators and occupiers, the insurgency is strengthened. I suspect that is a large part of the Taliban resurgence.

Who's fault is that perception?

Obama doesn't know what he's doing.

We won over the locals in Iraq and the surge started working.

Obama puts our guys out in the middle of nowhere so they can be better targets and imposes ROEs on them that handcuffs them. Then he drags his ass on making any decisions that might help them.

The troops are demoralized because they feel they don't have the support of the President....and the locals feel it's better to not get involved with the effort because of Obama's cut & run strategy.

It's doomed to failure.

Bush, for diverting the attention of the military to Iraq, which caused us to dick around in Afghanistan for four years.

Afghanistan was an afterthought for Bush. If he'd gunned it in Afghanistan, our position would be much better now. We probably could have even gotten the hell out of there.

It was my impression in '05 that we had exceeded our shelf life there.

Now it is officially the longest conflict we have ever been involved in (or nearing it).

BTW, this might surprise you, but I had a pretty restrictive ROE under Bush too. I didn't mind. I see the tactical need for the ROE.

If you don't get the ROE, just look at where the free fire zones in Viet Nam got us.

 

[maineman]

Hmmm.

Who to believe a retired Naval O-4 or a ranting lunatic?

That's a toughie.

Wait!

I want to amend my previous post!

"Hmmmm.

Who to believe?

A retired Naval O-4 or a ranting douchbag who neg reps me for asking such questions and sends angry rants that would be the envy of a lunatic?

That's a toughie."

BTW, Yurtie-boy: **** you too. I could care less about whatever drama you had on another board. Quit trying to make it my business.

you dumbfuck....you jumped into this....i never made it your business, you took the side of liar who has been banned at this board as well.....

to bad you're such a moron

this crap is really boring and tired....

Who is a retired O-4, moron?

not only are you a ******* elementary school level moron when it comes to the english language.....not only are you a gay weirdo stalker who seeks out and then broadcasts the actual identities of posters who don't agree with your twisted personal political point of view, you also are incapable of counting to FIVE... Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, and then, after four previous pay grades, Commander. O-5, you mathematically challenged, piss poor excuse for a lawyer or any other college educated profession. You are nothing but a jewboy loser coffee getting gofer at a cute little bed and breakfast on the left coast.... you should simply acknowledge your fate... maybe getting a job at McDonald's as the fry guy would be a step up career move.... ******* loser.

 

[geauxtohell]

Wait!

I want to amend my previous post!

"Hmmmm.

Who to believe?

A retired Naval O-4 or a ranting douchbag who neg reps me for asking such questions and sends angry rants that would be the envy of a lunatic?

That's a toughie."

BTW, Yurtie-boy: **** you too. I could care less about whatever drama you had on another board. Quit trying to make it my business.

you dumbfuck....you jumped into this....i never made it your business, you took the side of liar who has been banned at this board as well.....

to bad you're such a moron

this crap is really boring and tired....

Who is a retired O-4, moron?

not only are you a ******* elementary school level moron when it comes to the english language.....not only are you a gay weirdo stalker who seeks out and then broadcasts the actual identities of posters who don't agree with your twisted personal political point of view, you also are incapable of counting to FIVE... Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, and then, after four previous pay grades, Commander. O-5, you mathematically challenged, piss poor excuse for a lawyer or any other college educated profession. You are nothing but a jewboy loser coffee getting gofer at a cute little bed and breakfast on the left coast.... you should simply acknowledge your fate... maybe getting a job at McDonald's as the fry guy would be a step up career move.... ******* loser.

Hold on a second. That was my mistake. I said O-4, not Yurt. I screwed up the count.

BTW, did you really just use the term "jewboy"?

 

[mudwhistle]

We have at least two more years before we start to withdraw troops. He never said anything close to he would not rest until it was won.....you are making that up

Victory is defined as Afhanistan defending itself. If they cannot build the capability to control their own country after more than ten years they never will

When Bush pulled troops to attack Iraq...was that "cut and run"??

You don't know what you're talking about.

Afghanistan was mostly a Special Op war. Green Berets directing indigenous forces to defeat the Taliban.

It worked marvelously.

We've been slowly building up our forces in Afghanistan since the war was won but not fast enough for dickheads like Obama who claimed for years that Afghanistan was the place we should be...not Iraq. He said Afghanistan had to be won in his first couple of months in office. Now he's worried about the costs and the political damage it's causing him. Personally I think we should pull out now. And I say this because I know Obama doesn't have the stomach for it.

He never wanted to win. He just wanted to wait for the opportunity to leave. But he talked like a bad-ass when it was easy to do. Now he has a real problem and his solution is half-assed and will end up in nothing but a huge cost in lives and dollars.

Oh My God!

Are you serious? Don't you realize we had the Taliban defeated and driven out of the provinces? By pulling our regular troops Bush allowed the Taliban to reestablish itself.

Obama wouldn't have to reclaim lost ground if Bush had not given it back to the Taliban

Ok...dumbass. Many of the guys from my former unit were there. It was the Northern Aliance under the direction of US Special Operations Forces that did the bulk of the fighting.

Iraq was a more conventional war. Bush never just pulled our guys out of Afghanistan. The Democrats generated that falsehood. We were still deployed in Afghanistan all during the Iraq War but of course the media refused to cover that bit of information unless they needed a dead soldier to fill in the quiet periods in Iraq. I know too many guys that were there not to know this was the case. The excuse was that Bush hadn't captured Osama Bin Laden. Rumor has it he's dead.....and many in Washington know this. But that didn't stop them from claiming Iraq was just a waste of money and lives and OBL was waiting in Afghanistan to be captured. Well...he aint there.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ok...dumbass. Many of the guys from my former unit were there. It was the Northern Aliance under the direction of US Special Operations Forces that did the bulk of the fighting.

Iraq was a more conventional war. Bush never just pulled our guys out of Afghanistan. The Democrats generated that falsehood. We were still deployed in Afghanistan but of course the media refused to cover that bit of information. I know too many guys that were there to know this was the case. The excuse was that Bush hadn't captured Osama Bin Laden. Rumor has it he's dead.....and many in Washington know this. But that didn't stop them from claiming Iraq was just a waste of money and lives and OBL was waiting in Afghanistan to be captured. Well...he aint there.

Wow, you were SF?

You don't know the status of OBL. No one does.

Iraq was conventional for about a month. The bulk of it was typical asymmetric warfare, as the Army knew it would be after 1998.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I keep reading on here (and elsewhere) how these mythical 'right wingers' all loathe/hate Obama. To be clear, I don't hate Obama. Actually, there was a time - back in 2004 - when I thought he might be a Democrat I would vote for as POTUS. Rare as hens teeth! And, as I am 28, I have never seen a Republican that I thought I might vote for as POTUS.

But when I stopped watching his speeches, and started reading the transcripts instead, I found I was - yet again - disappointed. He's not an honest man. I'm not saying he's less honest than the rest, just that will not vote for a dishonest politician. I find that quite hard every election day.

Anyway, while watching his Afghan speech this evening (1am UK time), I remembered what it is that first started me questioning him. So, to explain it, here are two videos of his speeches.

The first is one of his speeches to the SEUI. This is Obama, passionate, caring, totally commited to the cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1NJaCtIkM

This is his Afghan speech from last night. Nothing - no passion, no commitment, no rallying the American people to a just cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXxBAOXCqEw

That's what I don't like about Obama. He's a community organizer - and we need a world class leader. Now, if anyone wants to define that as 'hate', then feel free but I don't hate the man - I fundamentally disagree with his policies. But the issue I have with Obama - he is just not good enough to lead our country.

Discuss, or not... either is fine by me.

Returning now to the OP, What I don't like about Mr Obama is that he is still in campaign mode. He hasn't changed in these two video clips, His audience changed. He is stuck in permanent campaign mode and hasn't a clue how to get out of it. We do not need a candidate, we need a president. And Mr Obama has a long way to go to fill that office.

 

[mudwhistle]

Except that he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udt92OwPOgs

After that, is there any point in addressing the rest of your points?

Funny...what I heard was him refusing to give credit where credit is due.

He said the surge worked in ways even Bush didn't think it would.

Which is the same thing as saying Bush succeeded by accident but not saying the word "succeeded".

He never wants to show any class and admit Bush was right about anything.

So in effect he says the troops succeeded but Bush wasn't responsible for anything at all...which means he still says Bush failed.

This is a very small man this Obama guy.

Of course you don't. Couldn't admit we were wrong about something, could we?

Not as unwilling to admit he was wrong as your boy Obama!!!

This interview took place less then two weeks ago.....and still doesn't constitute an admission. He refused to give Bush any credit....and I think he never will.

However his surge does constitute an admission that the Bush Surge was a good idea.

 

[geauxtohell]

Funny...what I heard was him refusing to give credit where credit is due.

He said the surge worked in ways even Bush didn't think it would.

Which is the same thing as saying Bush succeeded by accident but not saying the word "succeeded".

He never wants to show any class and admit Bush was right about anything.

So in effect he says the troops succeeded but Bush wasn't responsible for anything at all...which means he still says Bush failed.

This is a very small man this Obama guy.

Of course you don't. Couldn't admit we were wrong about something, could we?

Not as unwilling to admit he was wrong as your boy Obama!!!

This interview took place less then two weeks ago.....and still doesn't constitute an admission. He refused to give Bush any credit....an I think he never will.

However his surge does constitute an admission.

Uh huh. Still can't admit you were wrong, huh?

 

[mudwhistle]

Ok...dumbass. Many of the guys from my former unit were there. It was the Northern Aliance under the direction of US Special Operations Forces that did the bulk of the fighting.

Iraq was a more conventional war. Bush never just pulled our guys out of Afghanistan. The Democrats generated that falsehood. We were still deployed in Afghanistan but of course the media refused to cover that bit of information. I know too many guys that were there to know this was the case. The excuse was that Bush hadn't captured Osama Bin Laden. Rumor has it he's dead.....and many in Washington know this. But that didn't stop them from claiming Iraq was just a waste of money and lives and OBL was waiting in Afghanistan to be captured. Well...he aint there.

Wow, you were SF?

You don't know the status of OBL. No one does.

Iraq was conventional for about a month. The bulk of it was typical asymmetric warfare, as the Army knew it would be after 1998.

I was on an 'A' team for several years. I was deployed to Somalia in 93'.

I still talk to guys from my unit almost every day.

Iraq was a conventional war. It was a strong-arm tactic that pissed off the locals. Later Petraeus changed all of that with the surge.

Many of the guys in my former unit have been to both theaters several times. I even have a couple in my shop that were in both as well.

I know what happened from the horses mouth....not some God Damned CNN report.

 

[mudwhistle]

Of course you don't. Couldn't admit we were wrong about something, could we?

Not as unwilling to admit he was wrong as your boy Obama!!!

This interview took place less then two weeks ago.....and still doesn't constitute an admission. He refused to give Bush any credit....an I think he never will.

However his surge does constitute an admission.

Uh huh. Still can't admit you were wrong, huh?

To admit the surge worked is to admit the guy at the top succeeded...and Obama avoided doing that...so I wasn't wrong. He refused to give him credit...which is what I said from the beginning.

Obama wants to put the Bush Surge into operation in Afghanistan. That's an admission.

Sorry if you can't recognize the difference.

 

[mudwhistle]

The whole point was to give Bush some credit...which he refuses to do...like he's allergic to the possibility.

No fucken class whatsoever.

 

[Immanuel]

Retired military, regardless of ideology, shoiuld never be compared to a nazi.

oh please, grammar nazi and spelling nazi are simple slang for obsessive assholes on the internet who go around message boards constantly correcting grammar and spelling as if message boards are theses

I agree...But I have found Maineman, although way off base with my sentiments, someone who adds to the debate with more than just criticism.

True, but he can dish out the shit when pushed.

Treat him with the respect that he deserves and he will return the favor. But if you push him too far... well, he can type like a sailor talks.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Love how a ten year engagement in Afghanistan is "cut and run"

It's simple....first of all it isn't 10 years....try 9...secondly Obama wasn't President during most of it but no sooner do things get tough for him he wants to quit.

First he proclaimed it was the good war...then he said he would not rest until it was won.....now he wants to bail out on a fixed date regardless of whether we have a victory or not. He's gonna take a full year to build up our forces and within 6 months he's gonna start pulling them out.

That's called Cutting and Running.

We have at least two more years before we start to withdraw troops. He never said anything close to he would not rest until it was won.....you are making that up

Victory is defined as Afhanistan defending itself. If they cannot build the capability to control their own country after more than ten years they never will

When Bush pulled troops to attack Iraq...was that "cut and run"??

I'm betting on "They Never Will".

Immie

 

[Dr Grump]

Just reading Robert Fisk's The Great War For Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East...

...I'm with Immie...

 

[Big Black Dog]

The two biggest problems with Obama is stupidity and lack of political experience. His being a typical Chicagoland political hack only holds him back from being a real criminal.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's simple....first of all it isn't 10 years....try 9...secondly Obama wasn't President during most of it but no sooner do things get tough for him he wants to quit.

First he proclaimed it was the good war...then he said he would not rest until it was won.....now he wants to bail out on a fixed date regardless of whether we have a victory or not. He's gonna take a full year to build up our forces and within 6 months he's gonna start pulling them out.

That's called Cutting and Running.

We have at least two more years before we start to withdraw troops. He never said anything close to he would not rest until it was won.....you are making that up

Victory is defined as Afhanistan defending itself. If they cannot build the capability to control their own country after more than ten years they never will

When Bush pulled troops to attack Iraq...was that "cut and run"??

I'm betting on "They Never Will".

Immie

Yup...as long as President Pencil-neck continues to act like an empty-suit sending out mixed messages as far as the military is concerned they haven't a chance.