The Pharisees Tried To Destroy The Evidence, Literally.

[JAG]

Some people say that if they had sufficient evidence that would believe in
Christianity and become Christians. Here below is a clear instance of some
people that had clear compelling and more than sufficient empirical evidence
that rose to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 --- and what did they do with this
evidence? Answer: they tried to KILL the evidence, literally.

Read on . . .

The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed.
They had all the proof {evidence} they needed that He was worthy of their faith,
and still they did not believe in Him.

No better illustration of this can be found than in John chapters 11 and 12 where
the death of Lazarus occurred and where the Lord Jesus raised him from the dead.
There were many people there and they saw Lazarus who had been dead for 4 days
raised from the dead by the Lord Jesus. The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees
knew this, and fully understood this -- and they decided to "do something about it."

Lazarus-now-alive was the Logical, Empirical, Rational Evidence for the truth of
Christianity.

So?

So what did the Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees decide to do when faced with
that type of strong solid irrefutable Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence?

Answer:
That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10


`

 

[norwegen]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

 

[JAG]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

 

[norwegen]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

 

[JAG]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

"Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything.
People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a
resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an
incomplete story."___Norwegen

Okay tell me why.

Neither the Opening Post or the Biblical text says that The Teachers Of The Law
and the Pharisees rejected Jesus "just for the sake of rejecting Him" -- so what
is your point? What are you saying? Why did they try to kill both Jesus and
Lazarus?

JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees tried to KILL both the Lord Jesus
and Lazarus who was the living breathing empirical evidence that the Lord Jesus
was who He claimed to be.

That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10"___JAG


`

 

[norwegen]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

"Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything.
People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a
resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an
incomplete story."___Norwegen

Okay tell me why.

Neither the Opening Post or the Biblical text says that The Teachers Of The Law
and the Pharisees rejected Jesus "just for the sake of rejecting Him" -- so what
is your point? What are you saying? Why did they try to kill both Jesus and
Lazarus?

JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees tried to KILL both the Lord Jesus
and Lazarus who was the living breathing empirical evidence that the Lord Jesus
was who He claimed to be.

That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10"___JAG


`

I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him. You don't give a reason for it in your OP.

 

[JAG]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

"Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything.
People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a
resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an
incomplete story."___Norwegen

Okay tell me why.

Neither the Opening Post or the Biblical text says that The Teachers Of The Law
and the Pharisees rejected Jesus "just for the sake of rejecting Him" -- so what
is your point? What are you saying? Why did they try to kill both Jesus and
Lazarus?

JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees tried to KILL both the Lord Jesus
and Lazarus who was the living breathing empirical evidence that the Lord Jesus
was who He claimed to be.

That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10"___JAG


`

I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him. You don't give a reason for it in your OP.

"I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him.
You don't give a reason for it in your OP"___Norwegen

Norwegen,

I went and re-read the thread, and I saw the reasons you presented.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I think we're on the same page.

Here is my list of why they tried to KILL the Lord Jesus and tried to KILL
Lazarus.

{1} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees wanted to keep their
own religious system in power which was their perverted interpretation
and applications of the Law Of Moses.

{2} They wanted to retain their prominent places of authority as top officials
within that religious system.

{3} The Lord Jesus constantly attacked both them and their perverted interpretation
of the Law Of Moses. For example Matthew chapter 23 where Jesus called them
"You snakes! You brood of vipers" and said "How will you escape being condemned
to Hell?" Matthew 23:35

{4} Jesus' many public miracles were winning over large numbers of eye witnesses
who were coming to believe in Him because they saw His supernatural miracles.

{5} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw this, and correctly perceived it
to be a threat to them personally and to their positions of prestige and power.
And a threat to their source of wealth. Money. They loved Money.

{6} They finally concluded that it was going to be either Him or Them that was going
to be destroyed -- and they plotted to make sure it would be Him, and not Them.

{7} It all ended up with them yelling out to Pilate to crucify crucify Him, and them
putting the fear of Rome and of Caesar into the mind of Pilate when they said
if effect to Pilate that if you do not agree to crucify this man who claimed to be a
King, then you are no friend to Caesar. They said to Pilate that Jesus claimed to
be a king -- and they said "we have no king but Caesar." So Pilate reluctantly agreed.
And washed his hands literally in public, showing that he did not personally agree
with what The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees demanded of him.

Norwegen, there is a lot more that can be said on this.

I feel sure that you have many other points that you could present that would be very
informative and very helpful. Please feel free to present them --- you never know who
will be helped when you share what you have learned with others in threads.

So feel free to add some helpful points . . .


`


`

 

[norwegen]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

"Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything.
People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a
resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an
incomplete story."___Norwegen

Okay tell me why.

Neither the Opening Post or the Biblical text says that The Teachers Of The Law
and the Pharisees rejected Jesus "just for the sake of rejecting Him" -- so what
is your point? What are you saying? Why did they try to kill both Jesus and
Lazarus?

JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees tried to KILL both the Lord Jesus
and Lazarus who was the living breathing empirical evidence that the Lord Jesus
was who He claimed to be.

That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10"___JAG


`

I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him. You don't give a reason for it in your OP.

"I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him.
You don't give a reason for it in your OP"___Norwegen

Norwegen,

I went and re-read the thread, and I saw the reasons you presented.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I think we're on the same page.

Here is my list of why they tried to KILL the Lord Jesus and tried to KILL
Lazarus.

{1} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees wanted to keep their
own religious system in power which was their perverted interpretation
and applications of the Law Of Moses.

{2} They wanted to retain their prominent places of authority as top officials
within that religious system.

{3} The Lord Jesus constantly attacked both them and their perverted interpretation
of the Law Of Moses. For example Matthew chapter 23 where Jesus called them
"You snakes! You brood of vipers" and said "How will you escape being condemned
to Hell?" Matthew 23:35

{4} Jesus' many public miracles were winning over large numbers of eye witnesses
who were coming to believe in Him because they saw His supernatural miracles.

{5} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw this, and correctly perceived it
to be a threat to them personally and to their positions of prestige and power.
And a threat to their source of wealth. Money. They loved Money.

{6} They finally concluded that it was going to be either Him or Them that was going
to be destroyed -- and they plotted to make sure it would be Him, and not Them.

{7} It all ended up with them yelling out to Pilate to crucify crucify Him, and them
putting the fear of Rome and of Caesar into the mind of Pilate when they said
if effect to Pilate that if you do not agree to crucify this man who claimed to be a
King, then you are no friend to Caesar. They said to Pilate that Jesus claimed to
be a king -- and they said "we have no king but Caesar." So Pilate reluctantly agreed.
And washed his hands literally in public, showing that he did not personally agree
with what The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees demanded of him.

Norwegen, there is a lot more that can be said on this.

I feel sure that you have many other points that you could present that would be very
informative and very helpful. Please feel free to present them --- you never know who
will be helped when you share what you have learned with others in threads.

So feel free to add some helpful points . . .


`


`

Yea, we all have answers, I suppose. I like to keep it simple, though, and synthesize the message of the Bible to a sentence or two, all discussions about it emanating from the two reason Jesus came.

As for this thread, my initial point about the OP was that it had no point; it said only that the Pharisees denied Christ. Yea, so what. It's like saying that a man died for my sins. Yea, so what. What does that mean?

Christians satisfy themselves that that is the gospel, and so completely miss the gospel message.

People don't just do things randomly. They don't by chance die for other people. They don't by chance reject other people. Reasons underlie everything, even the rejection of Christ.

 

[JAG]

Interesting. Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees.

In the New Testament era, they were still living under the Law and the Prophets (yes, capitalized). This temple age was established with a tabernacle long ago.

The Pharisees (and Sadducees) were still relatively young political parties in the first century. Not much of an age, really.

This is why, I think (and it appears), the Pharisees wanted Jesus gone, as well as any evidence of his divinity. They expected a New Covenant era on their own terms, or to enter it with violence, themselves retaining their posts in the High Council.

"Interesting."___Norwegen

Thank you.

"Although I'm not sure what you mean by the Law and the Pharisees"___Norwegen

I said in the Opening Post
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw the miracles Jesus performed."___JAG
Not The Law.
Its easy to miss things. I do it all the time.

Thanks for all your input.

`

Fair enough. Maybe I was just filling in the whys and wherefores.

Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything. People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an incomplete story.

"Saying that Pharisees rejected evidence for Christ's divinity doesn't really say anything.
People have to understand why they rejected Jesus. Rejecting Jesus after witnessing a
resurrection just for the sake of rejecting him is nonsensical, or at the very least an
incomplete story."___Norwegen

Okay tell me why.

Neither the Opening Post or the Biblical text says that The Teachers Of The Law
and the Pharisees rejected Jesus "just for the sake of rejecting Him" -- so what
is your point? What are you saying? Why did they try to kill both Jesus and
Lazarus?

JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:
"The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees tried to KILL both the Lord Jesus
and Lazarus who was the living breathing empirical evidence that the Lord Jesus
was who He claimed to be.

That plotted first to kill the Lord Jesus who had provided the Lazarus-now-alive
strong solid Logical, Rational, Empirical evidence. John 11:53

Next they plotted to kill the evidence itself which was Lazarus-very-much-alive who
had been dead for 4 days. John 12:10"___JAG


`

I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him. You don't give a reason for it in your OP.

"I already said why they rejected him. You tell me why they rejected him.
You don't give a reason for it in your OP"___Norwegen

Norwegen,

I went and re-read the thread, and I saw the reasons you presented.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I think we're on the same page.

Here is my list of why they tried to KILL the Lord Jesus and tried to KILL
Lazarus.

{1} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees wanted to keep their
own religious system in power which was their perverted interpretation
and applications of the Law Of Moses.

{2} They wanted to retain their prominent places of authority as top officials
within that religious system.

{3} The Lord Jesus constantly attacked both them and their perverted interpretation
of the Law Of Moses. For example Matthew chapter 23 where Jesus called them
"You snakes! You brood of vipers" and said "How will you escape being condemned
to Hell?" Matthew 23:35

{4} Jesus' many public miracles were winning over large numbers of eye witnesses
who were coming to believe in Him because they saw His supernatural miracles.

{5} The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees saw this, and correctly perceived it
to be a threat to them personally and to their positions of prestige and power.
And a threat to their source of wealth. Money. They loved Money.

{6} They finally concluded that it was going to be either Him or Them that was going
to be destroyed -- and they plotted to make sure it would be Him, and not Them.

{7} It all ended up with them yelling out to Pilate to crucify crucify Him, and them
putting the fear of Rome and of Caesar into the mind of Pilate when they said
if effect to Pilate that if you do not agree to crucify this man who claimed to be a
King, then you are no friend to Caesar. They said to Pilate that Jesus claimed to
be a king -- and they said "we have no king but Caesar." So Pilate reluctantly agreed.
And washed his hands literally in public, showing that he did not personally agree
with what The Teachers Of The Law and the Pharisees demanded of him.

Norwegen, there is a lot more that can be said on this.

I feel sure that you have many other points that you could present that would be very
informative and very helpful. Please feel free to present them --- you never know who
will be helped when you share what you have learned with others in threads.

So feel free to add some helpful points . . .


`


`

Yea, we all have answers, I suppose. I like to keep it simple, though, and synthesize the message of the Bible to a sentence or two, all discussions about it emanating from the two reason Jesus came.

As for this thread, my initial point about the OP was that it had no point; it said only that the Pharisees denied Christ. Yea, so what. It's like saying that a man died for my sins. Yea, so what. What does that mean?

Christians satisfy themselves that that is the gospel, and so completely miss the gospel message.

People don't just do things randomly. They don't by chance die for other people. They don't by chance reject other people. Reasons underlie everything, even the rejection of Christ.

"Yea, we all have answers, I suppose."___Norwegen
Yes.
It doth appear to be that way.


"I like to keep it simple, though, and synthesize the message of the Bible
to a sentence or two, all discussions about it emanating from the two reason
Jesus came.___Norwegen

That is very interesting. I hope you will share those two reasons with
me and any other present or future readers of this thread
I will carefully read your two synthesizing sentences -- if you will
post them. It'd be appreciated.


"As for this thread, my initial point about the OP was that it had no
point;"__Norwegen

I disagree. The point of the Opening Post was that "The Pharisees Tried
To Destroy The Evidence, Literally." That was the point --the point made
in light of the connecting point made in the opening paragraph of the
Opening Post {and quoted just below}.


"it said only that the Pharisees denied Christ.__Norwegen

It also made this important connecting point;
JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:

"Some people say that if they had sufficient evidence that would believe in
Christianity and become Christians. Here below is a clear instance of some
people that had clear compelling and more than sufficient empirical evidence
that rose to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 --- and what did they do with this
evidence? Answer: they tried to KILL the evidence, literally."___JAG


"Yea, so what. It's like saying that a man died for my sins. Yea, so what. What
does that mean?"___Norwegen

What does it mean:
According to you?
Or according to the writers of the New Testament?
I am interested in reading your views on this.


"Christians satisfy themselves that that is the gospel, and so completely miss
the gospel message."___Norwegen

Again the gospel message according to you?
Or
The gospel message according to the writers of the New Testament?
Norwegen, what do you say the gospel message is?
I am trying to find out what you believe it is.
I look forward to reading your views on this.


"People don't just do things randomly."___Norwegen

It seems that many do.
I get the strong impression from the daily cable news programs that
many humans do a lot of things randomly.


"They don't by chance die for other people."__Norwegen

Agreed.

"They don't by chance reject other people."___Norwegen

Agreed.

"Reasons underlie everything, even the rejection of Christ."__Norwegen

Agreed -- regarding the rejection of Christ.

___________________________

Norwegen,

Here is Christendom's most famous Bible verse. How do you interpret this
verse and how do you make application of it to the human race?

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."___John 3:16

Note the contrast between:
{1} perish
{2} eternal life

___________

By the way, here is a prayer for us all.

May the Lord bless us.
May the Lord keep us safe.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the Lord turn His face toward us.
May the Lord always protect us.
May the Lord always protect those we love.
May the Lord always give us His peace.
{Based on Numbers 6:24-27}


`

 

[norwegen]

"I like to keep it simple, though, and synthesize the message of the Bible
to a sentence or two, all discussions about it emanating from the two reason
Jesus came.___Norwegen

That is very interesting. I hope you will share those two reasons with
me and any other present or future readers of this thread
I will carefully read your two synthesizing sentences -- if you will
post them. It'd be appreciated.

Jesus came to establish God's kingdom on the earth and to judge apostate Judea.

"As for this thread, my initial point about the OP was that it had no
point;"__Norwegen

I disagree. The point of the Opening Post was that "The Pharisees Tried
To Destroy The Evidence, Literally." That was the point --the point made
in light of the connecting point made in the opening paragraph of the
Opening Post {and quoted just below}.


"it said only that the Pharisees denied Christ.__Norwegen

It also made this important connecting point;
JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:

"Some people say that if they had sufficient evidence that would believe in
Christianity and become Christians. Here below is a clear instance of some
people that had clear compelling and more than sufficient empirical evidence
that rose to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 --- and what did they do with this
evidence? Answer: they tried to KILL the evidence, literally."___JAG

Okay, I guess that's a point. The Pharisees tried to destroy evidence. It's a point like "Little Johnny tried to ride a bicycle," but it's a point.

"Yea, so what. It's like saying that a man died for my sins. Yea, so what. What
does that mean?"___Norwegen

What does it mean:
According to you?
Or according to the writers of the New Testament?
I am interested in reading your views on this.


"Christians satisfy themselves that that is the gospel, and so completely miss
the gospel message."___Norwegen

Again the gospel message according to you?
Or
The gospel message according to the writers of the New Testament?
Norwegen, what do you say the gospel message is?
I am trying to find out what you believe it is.
I look forward to reading your views on this.


"People don't just do things randomly."___Norwegen

It seems that many do.
I get the strong impression from the daily cable news programs that
many humans do a lot of things randomly.


"They don't by chance die for other people."__Norwegen

Agreed.

"They don't by chance reject other people."___Norwegen

Agreed.

"Reasons underlie everything, even the rejection of Christ."__Norwegen

Agreed -- regarding the rejection of Christ.

According to the New Testament, and hence according to me also.

Did you know that Jesus didn't start speaking of his death until the last few weeks of his three-year ministry? Although redemption for sin is integral to Christ's purpose, it was not the purpose itself.

Norwegen,

Here is Christendom's most famous Bible verse. How do you interpret this
verse and how do you make application of it to the human race?

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."___John 3:16

Note the contrast between:
{1} perish
{2} eternal life

___________

By the way, here is a prayer for us all.

May the Lord bless us.
May the Lord keep us safe.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the Lord turn His face toward us.
May the Lord always protect us.
May the Lord always protect those we love.
May the Lord always give us His peace.
{Based on Numbers 6:24-27}


`

He gave His son to establish the kingdom. Believe in him and enter the kingdom, and reap all the blessings thereof - peace, salvation, Christ's glory, and all the rest.

 

[JAG]

"I like to keep it simple, though, and synthesize the message of the Bible
to a sentence or two, all discussions about it emanating from the two reason
Jesus came.___Norwegen

That is very interesting. I hope you will share those two reasons with
me and any other present or future readers of this thread
I will carefully read your two synthesizing sentences -- if you will
post them. It'd be appreciated.

Jesus came to establish God's kingdom on the earth and to judge apostate Judea.

"As for this thread, my initial point about the OP was that it had no
point;"__Norwegen

I disagree. The point of the Opening Post was that "The Pharisees Tried
To Destroy The Evidence, Literally." That was the point --the point made
in light of the connecting point made in the opening paragraph of the
Opening Post {and quoted just below}.


"it said only that the Pharisees denied Christ.__Norwegen

It also made this important connecting point;
JAG Wrote In The Opening Post:

"Some people say that if they had sufficient evidence that would believe in
Christianity and become Christians. Here below is a clear instance of some
people that had clear compelling and more than sufficient empirical evidence
that rose to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 --- and what did they do with this
evidence? Answer: they tried to KILL the evidence, literally."___JAG

Okay, I guess that's a point. The Pharisees tried to destroy evidence. It's a point like "Little Johnny tried to ride a bicycle," but it's a point.

"Yea, so what. It's like saying that a man died for my sins. Yea, so what. What
does that mean?"___Norwegen

What does it mean:
According to you?
Or according to the writers of the New Testament?
I am interested in reading your views on this.


"Christians satisfy themselves that that is the gospel, and so completely miss
the gospel message."___Norwegen

Again the gospel message according to you?
Or
The gospel message according to the writers of the New Testament?
Norwegen, what do you say the gospel message is?
I am trying to find out what you believe it is.
I look forward to reading your views on this.


"People don't just do things randomly."___Norwegen

It seems that many do.
I get the strong impression from the daily cable news programs that
many humans do a lot of things randomly.


"They don't by chance die for other people."__Norwegen

Agreed.

"They don't by chance reject other people."___Norwegen

Agreed.

"Reasons underlie everything, even the rejection of Christ."__Norwegen

Agreed -- regarding the rejection of Christ.

According to the New Testament, and hence according to me also.

Did you know that Jesus didn't start speaking of his death until the last few weeks of his three-year ministry? Although redemption for sin is integral to Christ's purpose, it was not the purpose itself.

Norwegen,

Here is Christendom's most famous Bible verse. How do you interpret this
verse and how do you make application of it to the human race?

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."___John 3:16

Note the contrast between:
{1} perish
{2} eternal life

___________

By the way, here is a prayer for us all.

May the Lord bless us.
May the Lord keep us safe.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the Lord turn His face toward us.
May the Lord always protect us.
May the Lord always protect those we love.
May the Lord always give us His peace.
{Based on Numbers 6:24-27}


`

He gave His son to establish the kingdom. Believe in him and enter the kingdom, and reap all the blessings thereof - peace, salvation, Christ's glory, and all the rest.

Norwegen, thank you for answering my questions and for making your contribution to the
thread -- much appreciated.


"Okay, I guess that's a point. The Pharisees tried to destroy evidence. It's a point like
"Little Johnny tried to ride a bicycle," but it's a point."___Norwegen

I disagree.
My Opening Post and the point made therein is much more profound than is, "Little Johnny
tried to ride a bicycle." My view is that anyone who merely glances over my Opening Post can
easily think this, and anyone who carefully reads my Opening Post will know it.

________________

Bible Verse For Today:

"So in everything do to others what you would have them do to you."__The Lord Jesus
Matthew 7:12




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