The New Testament's Demons Are as real As It Gets.

[hobelim]

Yes, God is eternal and unchanging. God is reality.

God so loved man that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death to reconcile justice with mercy.

That is such a crock of maudlin shit.

The way to eternal life has been made clear. Do this and you will live. God is God of the living.

Do something else and you will surely die. No mercy for the damned unless you bear fruit worthy of repentance.


That's your reality.

 

[ding]

That is such a crock of maudlin shit.

The way to eternal life has been made clear. Do this and you will live. God is God of the living.

Do something else and you will surely die. No mercy for the damned unless you bear fruit worthy of repentance.


That's your reality.

Again... Unfortunately for you there are too many accounts, verses, miracles and testimony from Jesus' that allow you to dismiss his supernatural powers.

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

That is such a crock of maudlin shit.

The way to eternal life has been made clear. Do this and you will live. God is God of the living.

Do something else and you will surely die. No mercy for the damned unless you bear fruit worthy of repentance.


That's your reality.

You have no idea about what people should repent of. It is an empty statement like Muslims saying Jesus is a great prophet, not loving Jesus at all. People could be their sexual selves, with that being known, had the people who built this country, truly repented, not being like the fornicating Esau. People risk getting arrested finding out as it is. Christs enemies were like Esau.

 

[hobelim]

You have no idea about what people should repent of. It is an empty statement like Muslims saying Jesus is a great prophet, not loving Jesus at all. People could be their sexual selves, with that being known, had the people who built this country, truly repented, not being like the fornicating Esau. People risk getting arrested finding out as it is. Christs enemies were like Esau.

Sorry, you are wrong. Sin is disobedience to the law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Given that, I know exactly what people, especially ding, should repent of if they were true to their professed dedication and love for Jesus and God and hope to be worthy of paradise because I understand the figurative meaning of the words and hidden subjects of the law. They openly brag about their sins. That's how I know what they should repent of.

They have confused obstinate stupidity with faith.

If you want to understand what I see peek inside any catholic church on sunday and you will see and hear with your own eyes and ears a priest hold up a lifeless matzo, made by human hands, and say it will become for "us" the body of Christ. Then the entire congregation gets down on their knees in a degrading and deranged adoration of a man made cracker that has no life and is not God and then they eat it for spiritual life. Derp derp and damn.

That is an offensive sin, a vile and degrading practice on many levels that is even offensive to the unbeliever. I don't understand why so few have the balls to stand up, say bullshit, walk out and never look back like I did at 8 years old.

The law is not and never was about diet, fashion, or the sexual preferences of consenting adult bipeds.

Knowing this how hard is it really for the above species of sinner to stop saying and doing these stupid things unless the person has made evil a deliberate choice.

 

[ding]

Sorry, you are wrong. Sin is disobedience to the law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Given that, I know exactly what people, especially ding, should repent of if they were true to their professed dedication and love for Jesus and God and hope to be worthy of paradise because I understand the figurative meaning of the words and hidden subjects of the law. They openly brag about their sins. That's how I know what they should repent of.

They have confused obstinate stupidity with faith.

If you want to understand what I see peek inside any catholic church on sunday and you will see and hear with your own eyes and ears a priest hold up a lifeless matzo, made by human hands, and say it will become for "us" the body of Christ. Then the entire congregation gets down on their knees in a degrading and deranged adoration of a man made cracker that has no life and is not God and then they eat it for spiritual life. Derp derp and damn.

That is an offensive sin, a vile and degrading practice on many levels that is even offensive to the unbeliever. I don't understand why so few have the balls to stand up, say bullshit, walk out and never look back like I did at 8 years old.

The law is not and never was about diet, fashion, or the sexual preferences of consenting adult bipeds.

Knowing this how hard is it really for the above species of sinner to stop saying and doing these stupid things unless the person has made evil a deliberate choice.

Given your continued and epic display of deceit, you are probably the last person who should be lecturing anyone on sin.

Your understanding of sin and repenting is driven by your hatred of Christians and especially Catholics. Needless to say you don't know what it means to sin or repent.

You criticize what you don't understand to arrive at what you believe without ever testing what you believe. I feel sorry for you.

 

[ding]

The way to eternal life has been made clear. Do this and you will live. God is God of the living.

You don't believe in eternal life or God. You don't believe in anything supernatural.

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

Sorry, you are wrong. Sin is disobedience to the law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Given that, I know exactly what people, especially ding, should repent of if they were true to their professed dedication and love for Jesus and God and hope to be worthy of paradise because I understand the figurative meaning of the words and hidden subjects of the law. They openly brag about their sins. That's how I know what they should repent of.

They have confused obstinate stupidity with faith.

If you want to understand what I see peek inside any catholic church on sunday and you will see and hear with your own eyes and ears a priest hold up a lifeless matzo, made by human hands, and say it will become for "us" the body of Christ. Then the entire congregation gets down on their knees in a degrading and deranged adoration of a man made cracker that has no life and is not God and then they eat it for spiritual life. Derp derp and damn.

That is an offensive sin, a vile and degrading practice on many levels that is even offensive to the unbeliever. I don't understand why so few have the balls to stand up, say bullshit, walk out and never look back like I did at 8 years old.

The law is not and never was about diet, fashion, or the sexual preferences of consenting adult bipeds.

Knowing this how hard is it really for the above species of sinner to stop saying and doing these stupid things unless the person has made evil a deliberate choice.

Sin is doing what Satan wants, not what God wants. people work ill to people calling it sweet. Money does that. People cannot sin when they judge rightly like Peter judged as to who loved the forgiver of debts, more than another. Jesus did not sin when he edified the centurion and Nathaniel. The priest in the Catholic church is a lying blasphemer. He is fantasizing about cannibalism is what it is.

 

[Likkmee]

It also says Adam was 70 ft. tall.

Prove them wrong.....

 

[seaofnails]

.
The scriptures certainly explain that rebellious angels or spirits are real, However , these spirits had not yet been banished or thrown out of heaven.

The entire premise and idea of the term " FALLEN ANGEL " existing in the Old Testament is such a great lie

what we do not see in all of the Old Testament - is Satan or any angel - being prevented from returning back to heaven and in a state of being a " Fallen Angel " meaning thrown out/ thrown down - cast out of heaven.

So there are contradictions - not only in the King James Version but most all of the Version of the Bible are also filled with great contradictions.

ONE TRANSLATION SAYS -

Ezek 28:18; " And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.

THE OTHER TRANSLATION SAYS . -

Ezek 28:18; " And I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. - The KJV Translation.

So we have people coming along and INSERTING their own pre - conceived theories about the subject when the Bible does not show Satan being thrown out of heaven and FALLEN from heaven until the New Testament.

We see in the translation - - the narrative description that seems to indicate that God NOW, currently is KEEPING / holding sinful Angels in eternal bonds under darkness, held, imprisoned until - the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has KEPT in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

and we see in the - translation..... a narrative description that seems to indicate that the Sodomites were sexually immoral JUST AS the ANGELS also were, - the Translation uses the word - " STRANGE FLESH " to link this connection to indicate - what Trinitarians believe, what the Angels and the Sodomites had done - meaning = they both went after " STRANGE FLESH - sexually "

as we see in the - translation..... Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after " STRANGE FLESH “ are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

And this can be verified - in a translation of - 2Pe 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment :5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, BRINGING IN THE FLOOD UPON THE WORLD OF THE UNGODLY;

But the Old Testament - there is no mention of fallen Angels, or imprisoned Angels and there is no mentioning of Angels being a part of God’s judgment at the time of the Noah’s flood.

Let’s look at the original manuscripts and see exactly what they say and what they DO NOT say. Why can we not take a look at these passages in the original Greek manuscripts and see what they actually say - is the translation of the Trinitarians saying exactly what the Greek texts are saying ?

Let’s start - in Jud 1: 6 - 7. What we see, is - a total and complete change from the ORIGINAL MESSAGE in what the translators have changed - from what the original manuscripts are clearly saying.

Jud 1:6

αγγελους THE ANGELS - τε ALSO - τους THAT - μη NEITHER - τηρησαντας KEPT - την THIS - εαυτων THEIR - αρχην BEGINNINGS - αλλα BUT - απολιποντας THEY LEFT - το THEIR - ιδιον OWN - οικητηριον HABITATION - εις TO - κρισιν JUDGMENT - μεγαλης A GREAT - ημερας DAY - δεσμοις BOUND - αιδιοις ETERNALLY – υπο UNDER - ζοφον DARKNESS - τετηρηκεν KEPT.

MEANING =

Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

We see in the Trinitarian translation that the narrative that they add and insert into the passage is much different than the original manuscripts. Here, we notice that they have added the word - “ KEPT “ twice - they repeated the word “ KEPT “ to say God is currently KEEPING the Angels bound in chains. But the word “ KEPT “ is only used one single time in the passage. And the passage says absolutely nothing about God keeping the Angels - It does not say

“ he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains. This narrative was added and inserted into the translation.

Trinitarian Translation - Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION, he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

We see AGAIN - the Translation, again changes what the manuscripts say here in verse - : 7

- Jud 1:7

ως AS - σοδομα SODOM - και AND - γομορρα GOMORRHA - και AND - αι THAT - περι CONCERNING / ABOUT - αυτας THEIR - πολεις CITIES - τον THIS IS - ομοιον SIMMILAR - τουτοις THEIR - τροπον MANNER - εκπορνευσασαι OUT OF FORNICATION - και AND - απελθουσαι TURNED AWAY - οπισω AFTER - σαρκος FLESH - ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET FORWARD - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.

MEANING =

AS SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH. IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.

The ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS are very, very different what we see in the real bible message.

Trinitarian Translation - Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.


In fact, the translators have changed the Greek narrative that clearly states -

AS SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR, THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH

ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET FORWARD - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.

The manuscripts are in no way directly - comparing the downfall of the angels to the similar sins of SODOM AND GOMORRHA. But the translators are lying and they attempt to change, add and insert their own narrative, to give the message that the angels had sinned in fornication and sexual immorality, just as Sodom and Gomorrah

- and they CHANGE the Greek word " ετερας " and insert the word " STRANGE "

ετερας - IS ANOTHER - meaning " another or other " - they delete the word = ετερας - IS ANOTHER - and they insert and change the word to say ---

" they went after " STRANGE " flesh " what they are doing here is deleting a word, changing it - - then inventing a - RUN ON SENTENCE, into the passage.

But the word " STRANGE " is nowhere in the passage. THIS IS A TOTAL LIE.

This Greek word - ετερας - IS ANOTHER.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to ANOTHER tribe. - ετερας " - Another

Mat 6:24 and Luk 16:13 A man serving two masters: will love one or despise THE OTHER..... - = - ετερας - OTHER

Mat 8:21 ANOTHER - ετερας - disciples said unto him.
Mat 11:3 Are you the one or - do we look for " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mat 15:30 Yahoshua healed – many " OTHERS - ετερας"
Mat 16:14 Are you John the Baptist: or - " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mar 16:12 Yahoshua appeared in " ANOTHER - ετερας " form / morph.
Luk 3:18 John preached many OTHER - ετερας THINGS.
Luk 4:43 I must Preach to " OTHER - ετερας " cities.
Luk 5:7 The were in the " OTHERS - ετερας" ship.
Luk 6:6 Upon " ANOTHER - ετερας " Sabbath
Luk 8:3 and many " OTHERS - ετερας "
Luk 9:56 They went to " ANOTHER - ετερας " village.
Luk 9:59 He said unto ANOTHER. - Luk 9:61 And ANOTHER ετερας also said.
Luk 10:1 The Lord appointed OTHERS ετερας - Luk 11:16 He was tempted by OTHERS ετερας
Luk 11:26 Seven OTHER ετερας spirits. -

Luk 14: 19 + 20 and Luk 16:7 - He said to ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 14:31 War against ANOTHER ετερας king.
Luk 16:18 Whoever puts away a wife, and marries ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 17:35 Two women - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 17:36 Two men - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 18:10 The OTHER ετερας was a publican.
Luk 19:20 And ANOTHER ετερας came.
Luk 20:11 He sent ANOTHER ετερας servant:
Luk 22:65 Many OTHER ετερας things
Luk 23:32 Also two OTHERS ετερας
Luk 23:40 The OTHERS ετερας answered.

In fact, this Greek word never changes anywhere in its meaning – this goes on through the entire bible. The Greek word = ετερας - OTHER - appears in the manuscripts - a total of " 99 " times.

And out of the TOTAL " 99 " total times - the translators every SINGLE LAST TIME without a single exception - they translate this same exact word, every time, to say " ANOTHER " BUT EXCEPT FOR - IN ONE SINGLE VERSE, here in - Jude 1:7

ONE SINGLE TIME, IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE TRANSLATION - They delete the word " Another " and they change and alter it to say " STRANGE " inserting / adding in - the word " strange " But the passage had just ended the sentence - STATING exactly - AS THESE CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH ....

That's it - end of the manuscript narrative - then the passage moves on to next say .....

ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET BEFORE - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HELD.

The Translators are changing and altering the passage - and we can see exactly what they have done, here is the Trinitarian altered narrative.

Trinitarian translation - Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

But the original message simply says SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.

The translators go through the entire bible masking the original message - to insert and interweave and inject a pre – conceived narrative that they INSERT and ADD into the storyline.

we can know that before the New Testament - there were no FALLEN angels who were cast out of heaven, nor were the Angels held in containment prison or bound in chains. We can clearly see that in the Old Testament that Satan and Angelic Spirits are in the earth, they have not rebelled against God directly and have not made war against God and have not FALLEN FROM HEAVEN - they have not been THROWN OUT OF HEAVEN. The New Testament shows precisely that - IT IS NOT UNTIL The Anointing / The Holy Spirit, in the form of Yahoshua came to earth - that we find that Satan then returned up again to heaven and GATHERING TOGETHER A THIRD OF THE ANGELS FROM HEAVEN - and then made war against God IN HEAVEN - and - Satan was THEN cast out of heaven forever. Then, they were FALLEN, ANGELS.

Before this, the Angels had left heaven and returned back to heaven whenever allowed - back and forth - and throughout the earth roaming free and had not been cast out nor thrown down by God . There were no fallen angels. Thes phrase does not exist anywhere in the bible. The scriptures clearly show that when AFTER the child, { Christ } was born, this is the exact time and specific point at which the war in heaven began.

If you read Revelation 12, it is saying that the war happened because when Christ was born, then the Dragon / Satan began to attack the woman, Israel and her seed which was Christ.

:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: ( FROM OUT OF HEAVEN } and the dragon { SATAN } stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. :5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. :6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. :7 AND THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN: MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT AGAINST THE DRAGON; AND THE DRAGON FOUGHT AND HIS ANGELS, :8 AND PREVAILED NOT; NEITHER WAS THEIR PLACE FOUND ANY MORE IN HEAVEN.

:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There is not a single verse anywhere in the entire Old Testament that even hints to a narrative that angels fell NOR WERE THROWN OUT from heaven - before YAHOSHUA CAME TO EARTH.

IT WAS - Yahoshua himself, Here on earth - that witnessed - SATAN FALLING FROM HEAVEN.

Luk 10:18 And YAHOSHUA said unto them, " I BEHELD SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN "

Even with this vision or premonition that Yahoshua had seen was during his lifetime on earth - not in the days of the flood.

When we go to the book of Revelation - we see that it is AFTER Yahoshua came to earth - THEN AND ONLY THEN - are the Angels are cast out and " FALLING FROM HEAVEN. "

Trinitarians have to literally change, alter, remove and delete words from the bible - just to teach their claims that are in fact in contradiction to the entire bible. AGAIN - when we look at the manuscripts describing the future punishment of Angels, we see that God has not yet imprisoned or chained or bound any of the Angels.

Let’s take a look at exactly what 2Pe 2:4 is saying and look at the complete narrative of what the verse is saying, instead of relying upon the Trinitarian changes that have been inserted into the text.

WHAT DOES THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAY - AND WHAT DO THE FOLLOWING VERSES ALSO SAY.

2Pe 2:4

ει IF - γαρ FOR - ο THE - θεος GOD - αγγελων OF ANGELS - αμαρτησαντων WHO SINNED ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED - αλλα BUT - σειραις CHAINED - ζοφου IN BLACKNESS - ταρταρωσας CAST DOWN TO HELL - παρεδωκεν DELIVERED - εις TO - κρισιν THE JUDGMENT - τετηρημενους TO BE DETAINED.

MEANING = FOR THE GOD OF ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

But at the very the time that when Peter wrote this scripture, God had not placed any of the Angels in prison, God has not imprisoned or bound or contained any of the Angels, the verse in - 2Pe 2:4 is telling us what God has planned and reserved for the Angels, In the future. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PAST EVENT.

THE ANGELS WHO SINNED will be coming - TO - speaking of their future.
IN THE FUTURE

BUT - When we get to verse : 5 - here below / in the following verse - Peter specifically denotes and distinguishes that there is a difference between THE ANCIENT WORLD BEFORE THE FLOOD - and the COMING FUTURE JUDGMENT TO BE SOMEDAY APPOINTED FOR THE ANGELS. And Peter specifies, making it very, very clear to mention - that the JUDGMENT RESERVED FOR THE ANGELS - is not a part of - THE ANCIENT WORLD - BEFORE THE FLOOD EVENT.

Look at what Peter says here . . . . . 2Pe 2:5 και AND - αρχαιου THE ANCIENT - κοσμου WORLD - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο WAS SPARED - αλλ BUT - ογδοον EIGHT - νωε NOAH - δικαιοσυνης THE RIGHTEOUS - κηρυκα PREACHING - εφυλαξεν HE KEPT, - κατακλυσμον THE FLOODED - κοσμω WORLD - ασεβων OF UNGODLY - επαξας TO COME.

MEANING = AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT WAS SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT, THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.

SO… Peter is explaining / telling of the judgment of the Angels that , the wicked, sinful Angels are - NOT TO BE SPARED and are to be punished. Then, Peter, next - GOES BACK IN TIME, by saying that OF “ THE ANCIENT WORLD - OF OLD “ - the wicked sinful people of world in the flood were not spared. MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FUTURE OF THE FALLEN ANGELS AND THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD OF THE PAST - before the flood. A clear distinction and difference between the OLD ANCIENT WORLD and the FUTURE day of judgment of the Angel’s judgments..

And the narrative continues. . . . . . But the judgment of the Angels, according to Peter - has nothing to do with - THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD - and Peter mentions that there is a difference…

We continue to see how the original describes

2Pe 2:6 - και AND - πολεις THE CITIES - σοδομων SODOOM - και AND - γομορρας GOMORRHA - τεφρωσας TURNED INTO ASHES - καταστροφη A CATASTROPHE - κατεκρινεν CONDEMNATION - υποδειγμα EXAMPLE - μελλοντων TO COME TO - ασεβειν THE UNGODLY - τεθεικως APPOINTED.

MEANING = AND THE CITIES SODOM AND GOMORRHA TURNED INTO ASHES A CATASTROPHE CONDEMNATION EXAMPLE TO COME TO THE UNGODLY APPOINTED.

This is how the Trinitarians attempt to convince people that - Angels are called “ Sons Of God “ in the translation. They completely alter passages giving an alternative rendering of many passages.

Trinitarians want to convince people that somehow, just because angels have fallen from heaven in the PRE FLOOD - Old Testament days - THIS CONDITION of the Angle being suddenly a “ FALLEN “ ANGEL - THROWN DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN - this, so - called “ FALLEN STATE OF BEING “ somehow - activates something sexually reproductive in them and gives the Angels the POWER, ability and CAPABILITY to mate with women and produce offspring with humans. WHY IS IT THAT SO - CALLED SINFUL ANGELS AFTER THE FLOOD “ at the time if Jesus and even today “ ARE NOT MATING WITH WOMEN AND PRODUCING MORE 9 foot GIANTS ? ?

The day of judgment is set - IN THE FUTURE - for the sinful, rebellious Angels and detailed in the book of Revelation and other passages - Before this, there is absolutely NO PREVIOUS MENTION OF THIS - it is all a FUTURE GREAT JUDGMENT DAY -

This is exactly why there are so many, many contradictions in the translations.

One Bible Translation says..

Ezek 28:18; " And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. -

THE OTHER TRANSLATION SAYS . -

Ezek 28:18; " And I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. - The KJV Translation.

One of them is untruthful and the other is translating this verse correctly - and they all are inserting a pre - conceived teaching concerning key selected, choice specific teachings in many other places - that have nothing to do with the biblical storyline and narrative and subject content,

You notice that the later translation changes the passage to say that

" I have turned you to ashes on the earth "

while the original manuscripts say

I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth.

The modern Trinitarian translations go through the Bible even making further changes upon what the KJV translators have already inserted into other passages.

It is all about attempting to conform, modify and codifying the doctrines to a mutual consistent agreement - but Trinitarians are unable to do this because their entire Trinitarian faith system is based on a false translation.

deliberately altered

 

[Colin norris]

The New Testament's Demons Are As Real As It Gets.
By JAG
August 31, 2021


They are bodiless spirits of fallen angels. They strongly desire to get
back inside a body ~ and the bodies of pigs will do just fine.

How can we be certain they are bodiless spirits? Because if they had
bodies of their own, they wouldn't be begging to be allowed to use the
bodies of pigs. "The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs."
{Luke 8:32) (same in Mark 5:9-13}

Once upon a time I was puzzled reading about demons ~ in the New
Testament I mean. They also made me just a wee bit uneasy. Are demons
really real? The Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God, I never doubted
that, but we're living in modern times and there has to be some other
explanation. Wrong. Demons are as real as dogs, dolphins, and daffodils,
and here is what I think happened:

There was war in heaven. We know that. We've read about it in Rev. 12:7-9.

In that war . . .

Michael and his good angles killed the physical bodies of Satan and his evil
angels and sent their bodiless spirits hurling down to earth ~ where they now,
apparently crave above all else, to get back inside a body and they'll even beg
to be allowed to enter hogs if its that or nothing.

Let's take a minute and read Rev. 12:7-9 together:

"Then war broke out in Heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,
and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they
lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled to the earth ~ that ancient
serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to
the earth, and his angels with him."

So there was War in Heaven . . .

And this is what Jesus said about that war:

"I saw Satan fall like lightning from Heaven." {Luke 10:18}

In Rev. 12:9 the Apostle John said the same thing like this:

"Satan "was hurled down . . . He was hurled to the earth."

Jesus' disciples said to Him: "even the demons submit to us in Your name"
{Luke 10:17}. Upon hearing that Jesus immediately came back with "I saw
Satan fall like lightning from heaven." {Luke 10:18}

So?

So there is a direct connection between demons on the earth and that
War in Heaven where Satan was kicked out and hurled like lightning
to the earth.

Moreover . . .

Demons, now spirits without bodies, hate their present condition. They need
to occupy bodies so they can meaningfully interact with their surroundings.
They find living without a body to be extremely unpleasant.

And even pigs will do . . .

Again, "the demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs" {Luke 8:32}

And they actually did that.

Jesus gave them permission and then "they went into the pigs." {Luke 8:33}.

Being inside a body keeps them out of the Unpleasant Void. When they are not
occupying a body, they are in a place they don't want to be. They call it The Abyss.
"They begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. {Luke 8:31}
(The NIV capitalizes the word Abyss.) They're smart enough to avoid The Abyss, if
they can.

The New Testament's demons are persons with intelligence that can carry on a
conversation. They did exactly that with Jesus in Luke 8:26-33.

And they know how important the Lord Jesus is:

"A demon-possessed man . . . [shouted] what do You want with me, Jesus, Son
of the Most High God?" {Luke 8:27-28}

And demons can feel pain and they want to avoid it. One demon said to Jesus, "I beg
You don't torture me." {Luke 8:28}.

The New Testament's demons know that Pain is in their future.

"What do You want with us, Son of God? [the demons] shouted. Have You come
here to torture us before the appointed time?" {Matthew 8:29}.


Here is a comforting thought . . .

God protects His people from demons:

Christians cannot be possessed by demons. We have the Holy Spirit
living within us {1 Cor. 6:19}. and He protects us from the Evil One.
The power of The Cross, the Resurrection, and the Exaltation {Jesus
now being seated at the right hand of Almighty God} has secured
eternal redemption for we who believe in the Lord Jesus as our
Savior. Thank You Father, Lord Jesus, Holy Spirit for loving us,
for saving us, and for protecting us from the Evil Ugly One.

Demons are sentient beings {able to perceive and feel things}. They
are self aware. "I beg you not to torture ME", said one demon. {Luke
8:28}.

More than one demon spirit can occupy the same human body. "What
is your name?", asked Jesus. "Legion", he replied because many demons
had gone into [the man]." {Luke 8:30}

So what can we conclude from all this?

(1) Demons are looking for susceptible people to occupy. They need a
body.
(2) Being fallen angels, they're no more mysterious than angels. We
don't find angels to be hugely mysterious. We understand a lot about
who they are and what they do. Demons are the spirits of fallen angels
who followed their leader Satan in rebellion against God and like Satan,
were kicked out of heaven and hurled bodiless to the earth where they
began searching for humans susceptible to being demon possessed.
Their bodies were killed during the War in Heaven and they don't like
being in that condition. They crave bodies so they can escape The Abyss
and remain on earth interacting with the much more enjoyable aspects
of human life.

How about now? Do demons occupy humans today, 21st century?

I think they do.

Why is it hard to believe that Charles Manson was demon possessed? Nine
murders in four locations. Cult leader of the Manson Family who had
mesmerizing control over approximately 100 followers. You ever looked into
the eyes {pictures} of Charles Manson? Spooky. Scary stuff.

How about Jeffery Dahmer the Milwaukee Cannibal? A serial killer, sex offender,
and murderer who dismembered 17 men and boys and ate some of them. Dahmer
was also into Necrophilia {sex with dead people . . . with corpses}

So?

So why is it difficult to believe that Jeffery Dahmer was demon possessed?

And what about the "Rev." Jim Jones and what happened in Jonestown
in Guyana? 918 people drank cyanide-laced Kool Aid and laid down to
die under the captivating control of demonic Evil "Rev." Jim. You ever
read "Our Father Who Art In Hell: The Life And Death Of Jim Jones"?
Don't. It's not pretty.

Why is it difficult to believe that Jim Jones was demon possessed.

And how about the world's criminally "insane" murderers, torturers,
and rapists ~ locked away in maximum security cells. How many of
them could be occupied by the spirits of Satan's fallen angels?

And why wouldn't they be?

[]

Epilogue.

It was noised abroad that some Christians actually put the personal blame
on Charles Manson, Jeffery Dahmer, and Jim Jones for what they did and
had the nerve to label it as sin against the God of the Bible.

"Listen", said Sly Sigh-Chiatrist, "we don't like the Bible, or the God of the
Bible, or the concept of personal sin."

"That's exactly right, we surely do not", replied Cunning Sigh-Chologist,
"so let's invent some pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook medical-sounding
terminology to befuddle the easily-befuddled masses."

"That's a splendid idea", cooed Sly Sigh-Chiatrist, "how 'bout 'borderline
personality disorder' and 'psychotic disorder' and here's a really good one
'schizotypal personality disorder'. Will these get the job done?"

"Yes, I think they will", replied Cunning Sigh-Chologist, "and let's add 'psychosis'
and 'schizophrenia' to the list. The masses will swallow our science-sounding
bafflegab hook, line, and sinker. Gullibility flows strong and thick 21st century."

"I love it", smirked Sly Sigh-Chiatrist, "and then the masses will have to come
to us and give us their money for our therapy treatments and our pills."

"Exactly", grinned Cunning Sigh-Chologist, "and at the same time we can get
rid of the outdated notions of God and personal sin."

"Okay then", smiled Sly Sigh-Chiatrist, "let's do it."

And so they did.

[][]


Agree?
Disagree?
Thoughts?



``

It's a shame you plagairised the lot. Anything to do with religion is bullshit anyway.

 

[seaofnails]

the evil spirits were not so much interested in finding another body to possess because they are fallen angels who used to have bodies,

the bible says these spirits were asking Yahashua specifically to let them leave the body of their possesses man and just harmlessly pass on to possessing the pigs - they did not want to be forced out by Yahashua and be sent directly into eternal darkness BEFORE THE TIME of when the great judgment day befalls - that is coming in the future.

when God will chain and bind Satan and his angels in the future.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time ?

 

[Uncensored2008]

It's a shame you plagairised the lot. Anything to do with religion is bullshit anyway.

Unless it's the holy church of Gaia and Anthropogenic Global Warming, then all must worship - blessed be.

 

[surada]

the evil spirits were not so much interested in finding another body to possess because they are fallen angels who used to have bodies,

the bible says these spirits were asking Yahashua specifically to let them leave the body of their possesses man and just harmlessly pass on to possessing the pigs - they did not want to be forced out by Yahashua and be sent directly into eternal darkness BEFORE THE TIME of when the great judgment day befalls - that is coming in the future.

when God will chain and bind Satan and his angels in the future.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time ?

Sounds impossiblely confusing. Is it intended to trick Christians?

 

[seaofnails]

sorry,

what i mean is that these sinful angels know that they are destined to be judged and condemned upon the Great Day Of Judgment.

the manuscripts do not show that God has yet punished sinful angels and this particular passage supports this .

the translations manipulate and alter and mistranslate the translation to make changes to insert the doctrine that fallen angels came to earth and conceived Giants with women

the translations manipulate and alter and mistranslate to make changes to insert the doctrine that God had punished sinful angels

but this is not what the manuscripts say in their originality.

I believe that sinful Angels have not yet been thrown down from the heavens according to the manuscripts

but they no longer have union and relationship with God and they exist separated from God and feel the need to possess and use human bodies and manipulate humans to destroy themselves and others around them.

They feed on fear and hatred and work to possess humans - to cast weakness and doubt and unbelief and drag people down spiritually, mentally and physically

these sinful spirits who are in disobedience and rebellion to God have not been punishes, NOT BEEN CAST OUT OF THE HEAVENS - but they are exist separated from God and no longer have union and a relationship and commination with the Spirit of God - they have rebelled and made their choice.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time ?

this great judgment day has not yet come - but the sinful angels know it is coming - they will be judged and condemned to outer darkness

 

[seaofnails]

I will do my best to explain - if anyone has disagreement to wants a better clarification, please reply and I will respond in respect, humility and friendship


when we read from the translation, many translations insert the idea that scriptures are saying that sinful angels have already been detained - in past history for having sexual relations with women and creating Giants

and all of the the translations do indeed insert the idea that scriptures are comparing the sin of lusting after strange flesh committed by Sodom and Gomorrah compared to the sin committed by the angels.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

If you look at the original Greek manuscripts in “ 2 Pe 2 : 4-5 “ -

there is a very different message from what the original message is saying
Translation says

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The translations says, verse “ :4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, this translation places inflection on the passage as a past tense event - something that happened in the past but this is not in the original manuscripts

:4 here is the original Greek manuscripts

ει THAT - γαρ FOR - ο THE - θεος GOD - αγγελων ANGELS
- αμαρτησαντων WHO SINNED - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -

Αλλα BUT - σειραις CHAINED - ζοφου IN BLACKNESS - ταρταρωσας CAST DOWN TO HELL
- παρεδωκεν DELIVERED - εις TO - κρισιν THE JUDGMENT - τετηρημενους TO BE DETAINED.

Greek manuscripts -
meaning = :4

THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

saying - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED​

this is very different than saying “ For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
the translation is rearranging and moving the words around - to place this as a past event

in the manuscripts - 2Pe 2:4 is not saying that God had previously placed any of the Angels in prison, this is not past tense,, the manuscripts, say exactly - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

2Pe 2:4 - is telling us what God has planned and reserved for the Angels, In the future. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PAST EVENT.

BUT - When we get to verse : 5 - here below / in the following verse - Peter specifically denotes and distinguishes that there is a difference between THE ANCIENT WORLD BEFORE THE FLOOD - and the COMING FUTURE JUDGMENT TO BE SOMEDAY APPOINTED FOR THE ANGELS. And Peter specifies, making it very, very clear to mention - that the judgment reserved for the angels - is not a part of - the ancient world - before the flood event.

Look at what Peter says here in the next verse - :5 - from the Greek manuscripts

Και AND - αρχαιου THE ANCIENT - - κοσμου WORLD - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -
αλλ BUT - ογδοον EIGHT - νωε NOAH - δικαιοσυνης THE RIGHTEOUS -
κηρυκα PREACHING - εφυλαξεν HE KEPT - κατακλυσμον TO THE FLOODED - κοσμω WORLD -
ασεβων OF UNGODLY - επαξας TO COME.

meaning = AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.​

Peter is explaining / telling of the judgment of the Angels that , the wicked, sinful Angels are – NOT TO BE SPARED and are to be punished. - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED
Then, Peter, next - GOES BACK IN TIME, by saying that OF “ THE ANCIENT WORLD - OF OLD “
- THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT WAS SPARED .

MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FUTURE OF THE FALLEN ANGELS AND THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD OF THE PAST - before the flood. A clear distinction and difference between the OLD ANCIENT WORLD and the FUTURE day of judgment of the Angel’s judgments..

and the narrative continues. . . . . and the future judgment of the Angels, according to Peter - has nothing to do with - THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD - and Peter mentions that there is a difference…

We continue to see how the original manuscript describes

2Pe 2:6 - και AND - πολεις THE CITIES - σοδομων SODOOM - και AND -
γομορρας GOMORRHA - τεφρωσας TURNED INTO ASHES - καταστροφη A CATASTROPHE –
κατεκρινεν CONDEMNATION - υποδειγμα EXAMPLE - - μελλοντων TO COME TO -
ασεβειν THE UNGODLY - τεθεικως APPOINTED.

Greek manuscripts - meaning =

AND THE CITIES SODOM AND GOMORRHA TURNED INTO ASHES A CATASTROPHE CONDEMNATION EXAMPLE TO COME TO THE UNGODLY APPOINTED.​

Let’s also look at the original manuscripts in Jud 1: 6 – 7

in Jud 1: 6 - 7 - - what we see, is a total and complete change from the ORIGINAL MESSAGE in what the translators have changed and altered –

here is exactly what the original manuscripts are clearly saying - Jud 1:6

:6
αγγελους THE ANGELS - τε ALSO - τους THAT - μη NEITHER - τηρησαντας KEPT -
την THIS - εαυτων THEIR - αρχην BEGINNINGS - - αλλα BUT - απολιποντας THEY LEFT –
το THEIR - ιδιον OWN - οικητηριον HABITATION - εις TO - κρισιν JUDGMENT -
μεγαλης A GREAT - ημερας DAY - δεσμοις BOUND - αιδιοις ETERNALLY - υπο UNDER –
ζοφον DARKNESS - τετηρηκεν KEPT.

MEANING =

Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.​

We see in the translation that the narrative that they add and insert into the passage is much different than the original manuscripts.

Meaning = THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY
Here, we notice that they have moved and shuffled the word - “ KEPT “ at the very ending of the verse - to insert the idea that God is currently KEEPING the Angels bound in chains. But the word “ KEPT “ is the very last word of the verse - the ending …….
And the passage says absolutely nothing about God keeping the Angels - It does not say

“ he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains - this false narrative was added and inserted into the translation.

the manuscripts say - Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

The Translation says - Jud 1:6 And the angels which KEPT not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

We see AGAIN - the Translation, again changes what the manuscripts say here in verse - :7

- Jud 1:7
ως AS - σοδομα SODOM - και AND - - γομορρα GOMORRHA - και AND - αι THAT –
περι CONCERNING / ABOUT - αυτας THEIR - πολεις CITIES - τον THIS IS - ομοιον SIMMILAR –
τουτοις THEIR - τροπον MANNER - εκπορνευσασαι OUT OF FORNICATION - και AND –
απελθουσαι TURNED AWAY - οπισω AFTER - σαρκος FLESH - ετερας I S ANOTHER -
προκεινται SET FORWARD - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL -
δικην JUSTICE – υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.

MEANING =

AS SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH. IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.​

The ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS - are very, very different from what we see in the translation

The Translation says - Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
the Greek manuscripts say nothing about - “ STRANGE flesh “

The manuscripts are in no way directly - comparing the downfall of the angels to the similar sins of SODOM AND GOMORRHA, but the translators are changing, adding and inserting their own narrative, to give the message that the angels had sinned after - “ STRANGE flesh “ - in fornication and sexual immorality,
just as Sodom and Gomorrah; - just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh,

- and they CHANGE the Greek word " ετερας " and insert the word " STRANGE "

The Greek word ετερας – means = " another or other " - they delete the word = ετερας - “ IS ANOTHER “ - and they insert and change the word to say ---

" they went after “ STRANGE flesh “ what they are doing here is deleting a word, changing it - - then inventing a - RUN ON SENTENCE, into the passage.

But the word " STRANGE " is nowhere in the passage. THIS IS TOTALLY UNTRUTHFUL

This Greek word - ετερας - = means “ IS ANOTHER “

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to ANOTHER tribe. - - ετερας " - Another

Mat 6:24 and Luk 16:13 A man serving two masters: will love one or despise THE OTHER..... - = ετερας - OTHER

Mat 8:21 ANOTHER - ετερας - disciples said unto him.
Mat 11:3 Are you the one or - do we look for " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mat 15:30 Yahoshua healed – many " OTHERS - ετερας"
Mat 16:14 Are you John the Baptist: or - " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mar 16:12 Yahoshua appeared in " ANOTHER - ετερας " form / morph.
Luk 3:18 John preached many OTHER - ετερας THINGS.
Luk 4:43 I must Preach to " OTHER - ετερας " cities.
Luk 5:7 The were in the " OTHERS - ετερας" ship.
Luk 6:6 Upon " ANOTHER - ετερας " Sabbath
Luk 8:3 and many " OTHERS - ετερας "
Luk 9:56 They went to " ANOTHER - ετερας " village.
Luk 9:59 He said unto ANOTHER. - Luk 9:61 And ANOTHER ετερας also said.
Luk 10:1 The Lord appointed OTHERS ετερας - Luk 11:16 He was tempted by OTHERS ετερας
Luk 11:26 Seven OTHER ετερας spirits. -


Luk 14: 19 + 20 and Luk 16:7 - He said to ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 14:31 War against ANOTHER ετερας king.
Luk 16:18 Whoever puts away a wife, and marries ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 17:35 Two women - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 17:36 Two men - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 18:10 The OTHER ετερας was a publican.
Luk 19:20 And ANOTHER ετερας came.
Luk 20:11 He sent ANOTHER ετερας servant:
Luk 22:65 Many OTHER ετερας things
Luk 23:32 Also two OTHERS ετερας
Luk 23:40 The OTHERS ετερας answered.

In fact, this Greek word never changes anywhere in its meaning – this goes on through the entire bible. The Greek word = ετερας - OTHER - appears in the manuscripts - a total of " 99 " times.

And out of the TOTAL " 99 " total times - the translators every SINGLE LAST TIME without a single exception - they translate this same exact word, every time, to say " ANOTHER "
BUT EXCEPT FOR - IN ONE SINGLE VERSE, here in - Jude 1:7 the translators change this into “ STRANGE “ flesh “ changing the Greek word " ANOTHER " into the word “: strange :”

ONE SINGLE TIME, IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE TRANSLATION - they delete the word " Another " and they change and alter it to say " STRANGE " inserting / adding in - the word " strange " But the passage had just ended the sentence – STATING exactly - AS THESE CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH ....

That's it - end of the manuscript narrative - then the passage moves on to next say .....

ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET BEFORE - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.


The Translators are changing and altering the passage - and we can see exactly what they have done

But the original message simply says SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.

Saying that the sin of both of these cities of is a similar or the same sin - of immorality.
ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.

The manuscripts are comparing the judgment to come of sinful angels who will face a judgment in the future
to the judgment of the past flood and also the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, saying that this same judgment is coming to the world and to the sinful angels in the future

the angels will face judgment TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

Jude 1::6 THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

Jud 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrha and that concerning / about their cities, this is similar their manner out of fornication and turning away after the flesh, IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE, ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.

2 Pe 2 : 4 ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

:5 AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.

The point is that just rearranging and moving the words around and manipulating the original message of the manuscript can completely alter and change our entire perspective , just switching 3 or 4 words around and moving and rearranging the sentence can create a alternative narrative that is not what the original says. This is why there is a total contradiction, If God had judged and detained the angels before the flood - how is it that Satan and His angles were not part of that detainment ?

it's just a matter of changing words around, flipping words, rearranging the sentence structures, changing the meanings of words and completely altering the original message to insert a pre - conceived narrative that completely contradicts the entire narrative of the rest of the scripturas - the comparison is being made of the future judgment of the angels and future judgment mankind in the future - - this is being compared to the judgment of the flood and of Sodom and Gomorrah



1. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to pretend that the Angels Judgment was past tense

2. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to hint and portray - that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was the similar sin of the Angels.

that is not what the original says.

 

[surada]

I will do my best to explain - if anyone has disagreement to wants a better clarification, please reply and I will respond in respect, humility and friendship


when we read from the translation, many translations insert the idea that scriptures are saying that sinful angels have already been detained - in past history for having sexual relations with women and creating Giants

and all of the the translations do indeed insert the idea that scriptures are comparing the sin of lusting after strange flesh committed by Sodom and Gomorrah compared to the sin committed by the angels.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

If you look at the original Greek manuscripts in “ 2 Pe 2 : 4-5 “ -

there is a very different message from what the original message is saying
Translation says

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The translations says, verse “ :4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, this translation places inflection on the passage as a past tense event - something that happened in the past but this is not in the original manuscripts

:4 here is the original Greek manuscripts

ει THAT - γαρ FOR - ο THE - θεος GOD - αγγελων ANGELS
- αμαρτησαντων WHO SINNED - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -

Αλλα BUT - σειραις CHAINED - ζοφου IN BLACKNESS - ταρταρωσας CAST DOWN TO HELL
- παρεδωκεν DELIVERED - εις TO - κρισιν THE JUDGMENT - τετηρημενους TO BE DETAINED.

Greek manuscripts -
meaning = :4

THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

saying - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED​

this is very different than saying “ For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
the translation is rearranging and moving the words around - to place this as a past event

in the manuscripts - 2Pe 2:4 is not saying that God had previously placed any of the Angels in prison, this is not past tense,, the manuscripts, say exactly - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

2Pe 2:4 - is telling us what God has planned and reserved for the Angels, In the future. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PAST EVENT.

BUT - When we get to verse : 5 - here below / in the following verse - Peter specifically denotes and distinguishes that there is a difference between THE ANCIENT WORLD BEFORE THE FLOOD - and the COMING FUTURE JUDGMENT TO BE SOMEDAY APPOINTED FOR THE ANGELS. And Peter specifies, making it very, very clear to mention - that the judgment reserved for the angels - is not a part of - the ancient world - before the flood event.

Look at what Peter says here in the next verse - :5 - from the Greek manuscripts

Και AND - αρχαιου THE ANCIENT - - κοσμου WORLD - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -
αλλ BUT - ογδοον EIGHT - νωε NOAH - δικαιοσυνης THE RIGHTEOUS -
κηρυκα PREACHING - εφυλαξεν HE KEPT - κατακλυσμον TO THE FLOODED - κοσμω WORLD -
ασεβων OF UNGODLY - επαξας TO COME.

meaning = AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.​

Peter is explaining / telling of the judgment of the Angels that , the wicked, sinful Angels are – NOT TO BE SPARED and are to be punished. - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED
Then, Peter, next - GOES BACK IN TIME, by saying that OF “ THE ANCIENT WORLD - OF OLD “
- THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT WAS SPARED .

MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FUTURE OF THE FALLEN ANGELS AND THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD OF THE PAST - before the flood. A clear distinction and difference between the OLD ANCIENT WORLD and the FUTURE day of judgment of the Angel’s judgments..

and the narrative continues. . . . . and the future judgment of the Angels, according to Peter - has nothing to do with - THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD - and Peter mentions that there is a difference…

We continue to see how the original manuscript describes

2Pe 2:6 - και AND - πολεις THE CITIES - σοδομων SODOOM - και AND -
γομορρας GOMORRHA - τεφρωσας TURNED INTO ASHES - καταστροφη A CATASTROPHE –
κατεκρινεν CONDEMNATION - υποδειγμα EXAMPLE - - μελλοντων TO COME TO -
ασεβειν THE UNGODLY - τεθεικως APPOINTED.

Greek manuscripts - meaning =

AND THE CITIES SODOM AND GOMORRHA TURNED INTO ASHES A CATASTROPHE CONDEMNATION EXAMPLE TO COME TO THE UNGODLY APPOINTED.​

Let’s also look at the original manuscripts in Jud 1: 6 – 7

in Jud 1: 6 - 7 - - what we see, is a total and complete change from the ORIGINAL MESSAGE in what the translators have changed and altered –

here is exactly what the original manuscripts are clearly saying - Jud 1:6

:6
αγγελους THE ANGELS - τε ALSO - τους THAT - μη NEITHER - τηρησαντας KEPT -
την THIS - εαυτων THEIR - αρχην BEGINNINGS - - αλλα BUT - απολιποντας THEY LEFT –
το THEIR - ιδιον OWN - οικητηριον HABITATION - εις TO - κρισιν JUDGMENT -
μεγαλης A GREAT - ημερας DAY - δεσμοις BOUND - αιδιοις ETERNALLY - υπο UNDER –
ζοφον DARKNESS - τετηρηκεν KEPT.

MEANING =

Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.​

We see in the translation that the narrative that they add and insert into the passage is much different than the original manuscripts.

Meaning = THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY
Here, we notice that they have moved and shuffled the word - “ KEPT “ at the very ending of the verse - to insert the idea that God is currently KEEPING the Angels bound in chains. But the word “ KEPT “ is the very last word of the verse - the ending …….
And the passage says absolutely nothing about God keeping the Angels - It does not say

“ he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains - this false narrative was added and inserted into the translation.

the manuscripts say - Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

The Translation says - Jud 1:6 And the angels which KEPT not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

We see AGAIN - the Translation, again changes what the manuscripts say here in verse - :7

- Jud 1:7
ως AS - σοδομα SODOM - και AND - - γομορρα GOMORRHA - και AND - αι THAT –
περι CONCERNING / ABOUT - αυτας THEIR - πολεις CITIES - τον THIS IS - ομοιον SIMMILAR –
τουτοις THEIR - τροπον MANNER - εκπορνευσασαι OUT OF FORNICATION - και AND –
απελθουσαι TURNED AWAY - οπισω AFTER - σαρκος FLESH - ετερας I S ANOTHER -
προκεινται SET FORWARD - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL -
δικην JUSTICE – υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.

MEANING =

AS SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH. IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.​

The ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS - are very, very different from what we see in the translation

The Translation says - Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
the Greek manuscripts say nothing about - “ STRANGE flesh “

The manuscripts are in no way directly - comparing the downfall of the angels to the similar sins of SODOM AND GOMORRHA, but the translators are changing, adding and inserting their own narrative, to give the message that the angels had sinned after - “ STRANGE flesh “ - in fornication and sexual immorality,
just as Sodom and Gomorrah; - just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh,

- and they CHANGE the Greek word " ετερας " and insert the word " STRANGE "

The Greek word ετερας – means = " another or other " - they delete the word = ετερας - “ IS ANOTHER “ - and they insert and change the word to say ---

" they went after “ STRANGE flesh “ what they are doing here is deleting a word, changing it - - then inventing a - RUN ON SENTENCE, into the passage.

But the word " STRANGE " is nowhere in the passage. THIS IS TOTALLY UNTRUTHFUL

This Greek word - ετερας - = means “ IS ANOTHER “

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to ANOTHER tribe. - - ετερας " - Another

Mat 6:24 and Luk 16:13 A man serving two masters: will love one or despise THE OTHER..... - = ετερας - OTHER

Mat 8:21 ANOTHER - ετερας - disciples said unto him.
Mat 11:3 Are you the one or - do we look for " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mat 15:30 Yahoshua healed – many " OTHERS - ετερας"
Mat 16:14 Are you John the Baptist: or - " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mar 16:12 Yahoshua appeared in " ANOTHER - ετερας " form / morph.
Luk 3:18 John preached many OTHER - ετερας THINGS.
Luk 4:43 I must Preach to " OTHER - ετερας " cities.
Luk 5:7 The were in the " OTHERS - ετερας" ship.
Luk 6:6 Upon " ANOTHER - ετερας " Sabbath
Luk 8:3 and many " OTHERS - ετερας "
Luk 9:56 They went to " ANOTHER - ετερας " village.
Luk 9:59 He said unto ANOTHER. - Luk 9:61 And ANOTHER ετερας also said.
Luk 10:1 The Lord appointed OTHERS ετερας - Luk 11:16 He was tempted by OTHERS ετερας
Luk 11:26 Seven OTHER ετερας spirits. -


Luk 14: 19 + 20 and Luk 16:7 - He said to ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 14:31 War against ANOTHER ετερας king.
Luk 16:18 Whoever puts away a wife, and marries ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 17:35 Two women - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 17:36 Two men - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 18:10 The OTHER ετερας was a publican.
Luk 19:20 And ANOTHER ετερας came.
Luk 20:11 He sent ANOTHER ετερας servant:
Luk 22:65 Many OTHER ετερας things
Luk 23:32 Also two OTHERS ετερας
Luk 23:40 The OTHERS ετερας answered.

In fact, this Greek word never changes anywhere in its meaning – this goes on through the entire bible. The Greek word = ετερας - OTHER - appears in the manuscripts - a total of " 99 " times.

And out of the TOTAL " 99 " total times - the translators every SINGLE LAST TIME without a single exception - they translate this same exact word, every time, to say " ANOTHER "
BUT EXCEPT FOR - IN ONE SINGLE VERSE, here in - Jude 1:7 the translators change this into “ STRANGE “ flesh “ changing the Greek word " ANOTHER " into the word “: strange :”

ONE SINGLE TIME, IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE TRANSLATION - they delete the word " Another " and they change and alter it to say " STRANGE " inserting / adding in - the word " strange " But the passage had just ended the sentence – STATING exactly - AS THESE CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH ....

That's it - end of the manuscript narrative - then the passage moves on to next say .....

ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET BEFORE - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.


The Translators are changing and altering the passage - and we can see exactly what they have done

But the original message simply says SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.

Saying that the sin of both of these cities of is a similar or the same sin - of immorality.
ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.

The manuscripts are comparing the judgment to come of sinful angels who will face a judgment in the future
to the judgment of the past flood and also the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, saying that this same judgment is coming to the world and to the sinful angels in the future

the angels will face judgment TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

Jude 1::6 THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

Jud 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrha and that concerning / about their cities, this is similar their manner out of fornication and turning away after the flesh, IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE, ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.

2 Pe 2 : 4 ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.

:5 AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.

The point is that just rearranging and moving the words around and manipulating the original message of the manuscript can completely alter and change our entire perspective , just switching 3 or 4 words around and moving and rearranging the sentence can create a alternative narrative that is not what the original says. This is why there is a total contradiction, If God had judged and detained the angels before the flood - how is it that Satan and His angles were not part of that detainment ?

it's just a matter of changing words around, flipping words, rearranging the sentence structures, changing the meanings of words and completely altering the original message to insert a pre - conceived narrative that completely contradicts the entire narrative of the rest of the scripturas - the comparison is being made of the future judgment of the angels and future judgment mankind in the future - - this is being compared to the judgment of the flood and of Sodom and Gomorrah



1. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to pretend that the Angels Judgment was past tense

2. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to hint and portray - that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was the similar sin of the Angels.

that is not what the original says.

the evil spirits were not so much interested in finding another body to possess because they are fallen angels who used to have bodies,

the bible says these spirits were asking Yahashua specifically to let them leave the body of their possesses man and just harmlessly pass on to possessing the pigs - they did not want to be forced out by Yahashua and be sent directly into eternal darkness BEFORE THE TIME of when the great judgment day befalls - that is coming in the future.

when God will chain and bind Satan and his angels in the future.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time ?

Do you have a source for your cut and paste?

 

[seaofnails]

really my cut and paste is derived from communicating with trinitarians in discussion and debate

this is what many, many trinitarians discuss about, they have disagreement, debates and great lengthy discussions and conversations about these passages.

My only source is taking the original Greek manuscripts, removing the Catholic and Protestant translation - looking at the passages for exactly what they say - word for word exactly. No extra doctrine, hypothesis or theory.

just the original manuscript message as it was transmitted originally all in perfect agreement, union and without contradiction. This is why people debate, disagree and spend years trying to come to agreement and understanding about the translations,
'
because when we move words around, delete words, remove words and change words to conform and fit with a pre - conceived narrative - we loose the simple, basic original message as it was transmitted originally all in perfect agreement, union and without contradiction - - with no reason to debate or disagree or question -

it's just what the manuscripts say - this is the source

sometimes I have to complete the questions and answers that Trinitarians dwell upon because they themselves do not have answers and questions that are truly completed when we take these questions answers for what they really are. - carrying and bearing out their reality

it's just a realm that orbits upon never ending contradiction and opposing verses that deny and change what is originally written, skipping, hopping and jerking from one contradiction to another -

one step theology that never moves beyond a single step but only regresses back only to move on to another contradiction and then back again, never moving beyond a single step

 

[buttercup]

I don't agree that demons and fallen angels are the same thing.

I think we all agree on fallen angels....that they weren't always fallen, they were angels who rebelled and fell from grace.

But there are different views on what demons are, and where they came from.

As of now, I believe demons are the spirits of the Nephilim...who were never supposed to exist in the first place.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Astonishing how often these Cultists have to publicly parade their strange beliefs -- as though repetition will stop the laughter .

Yes, but we have to deal with the Atheistic evangelists anyway. Regardless of their silly arguments