the Michigan High School shooter and Mom & Dad...

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes, you would own a share of the liability for the harm your own firearms caused.

I hope that helps you clarify your approach.

"How" you are held responsible is up to the policy-wonks, the courts of law, or yet to be enacted legislation.

Listen you stupid cocksucker, you edited my post by only quoting one sentence. Enjoy your fucking vacation because you are history! If the mods do their jobs, you won't be posting for a while.

 

[Rogue AI]

Noper. There is nothing 'unconstitutional' about requiring a gun owner....me included....to be responsible in exercising the 2nd A. right.
With rights comes responsibilities.
And when that responsibility is not performed.....then there is a liability.

If you do not adequately secure your weapon you are liable for the harm it does. Not 100% ..... but a share of it.

After all, the 3yr old who shot is 2yr old sister holds the primary responsibility. However, the Dad who left it on the dresser does.....share in the responsibility to a degree (to be determined by a jury or yet to be enacted legislation.)
-----------------------------------------------


Well, I hadn't thought about Rittenhouse. But......if he is the legal 'owner-of-record' and his actions with his firearm are deemed legal and appropriate......I would suggest there would be little liability for the harms created.

But in the Rittenhouse scenario....there is, I believe, the complication of a straw-purchaser being involved. And I believe the Wisconsin courts are addressing that guy's liability right now.

Your proposal violates numerous Constitutional protections. It would be cruel and unusual punishment to prosecute a person for being the victim of a crime. What sort of sicked twisted person prosecutes victims?

The discriminatory nature of your idea makes it untenable as it pertains to a specific enumerated right that includes text to protect from such infringement.

Your silly attempts to spread blame and responsibility are both idiotic and counter-productive.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Your proposal violates numerous Constitutional protections. It would cruel and unusual punishment to prosecute a person for being the victim of a crime. What sort of sicked twisted person prosecuted victims?

The discriminatory nature of your idea makes it untenable as it pertains to a specific enumerated right that includes text to protect from such infringement.

Your silly attempts to spread blame and responsibility are both idiotic and counter-productive.

I want the moron to tell me what guns I have in my home right now, or how he would go about finding out what and where they are.

 

[Chillicothe]

"Listen you stupid cocksucker, you edited my post by only quoting one sentence. Enjoy your fucking vacation because you are history!"

Umm, I regret that you feel discombobulated when an entire and complete sentence of yours is quoted.....and attributed.
However, such practices is kinda how it works in Adult Swim.

But more important than the little hissyfit about "editing'....is the shrill emotionalism: "cocks*cker"? "f*cking vacation"?

It has been mentioned earlier in the thread, and it has relevance further along......if one cannot control one's emotions, then perhaps one is not suited to owning a concealable, portable, high-lethality tool.....like a gun.

Just sayin'.

 

[Rogue AI]

I want the moron to tell me what guns I have in my home right now, or how he would go about finding out what and where they are.

No worries, they will propose violating your right to privacy to find out.

 

[Chillicothe]

"....they will propose violating your right to privacy to find out."

Oh, I dunno about that, specifically.

Here, good poster Rogue, lemme add some nuance:

So....it is enacted that the gun-owner-of-record is strictly liable for his tool and subject to adequate criminal and/or tort penalties.

Which, most gun owners being prudent aware folks impels them to get increased insurance for their increased liability.

But the underwriter says:

A. What guns are we insuring against liability penalties?
B. Oh, so you won't tell us because it violates your right to privacy?
C. OK.
D. Find someone else.

So, your super-secret Code Red guns....will be enumerated at the insurance company........lest you be skinned, gutted, and quartered at trial because no insurance lawyer is their defending their interest....along with yours.

Unless, of course, you voluntarily give up your list of super-secret serial numbers to a carrier who will finally agree to cover your liability....for leaving your SigSauer under the seat of your unlocked Buick when you visited the PoleDanceBallet.

It's a hypothetical for illustration purposes, guys. Roll with it.

 

[Circe]

The mom is an ignorant and profane Trumpster

Me, too. It wasn't a reason to charge people till recently. That's the leftist dems political prisoner craze.

 

[g5000]

There is a nearby thread about the Michigan high-school shooter and his parent's gun. It is a good thread with erudite posters examining Michigan's current laws. It's worth the time to read it, but.....but this thread takes a little bit different tack that perhaps warrants a stand alone thread,

I suggest that and post this topic in order to discuss the 'liability' one incurs in bringing a firearm into our society. Perhaps, 'responsibility' is a better word than 'liability'.

Regardless, in my view the parents of that shooter-kid need be held accountable because they are the 'owner-of-record' who introduced that high-lethality instrument in our society.

Which, launches me into my view that ALL gun owners need be responsible to some degree whenever any weapon they own causes harm.
In short, if you own the gun, you own the harm it may cause. At least a portion of it. Even if gun was used by an 'unauthorized' shooter, even if the gun was stolen from you. You 'own' the gun. You own what it produces.

That means -- if you didn't put trigger-locks on the gun and your 4yr old kills his 3yr old sibling.....you are criminally liable.
That means, if your Glock21 is stolen from under your car seat....and it ends up killing the 7/11 clerk you are criminally liable to some degree.

Sure, one could argue 'contributory negligence'.....but I desire it be stricter, more black & white than that.

If I was king....ANY harm by a firearm to which you possess as the "owner-of-record" comes burdened with strict liability. You own the gun, you own the benefits that accrue to it, you own the harms (to some degree) that it causes.

It is not a free lunch...to own a gun. If the gun was used to cause harm, you own part of the harm.

You pay to reimburse those harmed for your share of the harm.

No exceptions. You brought the high-lethality tool into society. You have the responsibility (liability) to ensure that it neve causes harm.

Thus, when it is used to do so.......you share in the liability.

The parents gave the gun to the kid and even bragged about it on social media. They also ignored warnings from the school that there was something wrong with their son.

They should be held accountable.

 

[g5000]

But blame is also being directed at school administrators. While there has been broad praise here for the response of law enforcement officers and first responders on the day of the shooting, details about how school officials handled teacher concerns about Ethan Crumbley’s behavior have not sat well.

On Monday, according to McDonald, a teacher caught the boy searching online for ammunition. On Tuesday, the morning of the shooting, a teacher found him making a violent drawing with the words, “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.” The Crumbleys came to school but “resisted the idea” of taking Ethan Crumbley home and did not ask if he had the gun with him, McDonald said. Soon after they left, the shooting began.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/04/oxford-shooting-parents-custody/

 

[Rogue AI]

Oh, I dunno about that, specifically.

Here, good poster Rogue, lemme add some nuance:

So....it is enacted that the gun-owner-of-record is strictly liable for his tool and subject to adequate criminal and/or tort penalties.

Which, most gun owners being prudent aware folks impels them to get increased insurance for their increased liability.

But the underwriter says:

A. What guns are we insuring against liability penalties?
B. Oh, so you won't tell us because it violates your right to privacy?
C. OK.
D. Find someone else.

So, your super-secret Code Red guns....will be enumerated at the insurance company........lest you be skinned, gutted, and quartered at trial because no insurance lawyer is their defending their interest....along with yours.

Unless, of course, you voluntarily give up your list of super-secret serial numbers to a carrier who will finally agree to cover your liability....for leaving your SigSauer under the seat of your unlocked Buick when you visited the PoleDanceBallet.

It's a hypothetical for illustration purposes, guys. Roll with it.

Piss off with your out of context half quotes. Fuck you.

 

[daveman]

The problem though is that there are 50 different set of gun laws, one set for each state.

That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[daveman]

Oh, I dunno about that, specifically.

Here, good poster Rogue, lemme add some nuance:

So....it is enacted that the gun-owner-of-record is strictly liable for his tool and subject to adequate criminal and/or tort penalties.

Which, most gun owners being prudent aware folks impels them to get increased insurance for their increased liability.

But the underwriter says:

A. What guns are we insuring against liability penalties?
B. Oh, so you won't tell us because it violates your right to privacy?
C. OK.
D. Find someone else.

So, your super-secret Code Red guns....will be enumerated at the insurance company........lest you be skinned, gutted, and quartered at trial because no insurance lawyer is their defending their interest....along with yours.

Unless, of course, you voluntarily give up your list of super-secret serial numbers to a carrier who will finally agree to cover your liability....for leaving your SigSauer under the seat of your unlocked Buick when you visited the PoleDanceBallet.

It's a hypothetical for illustration purposes, guys. Roll with it.

Outsourcing your Brown Shirts doesn't make you any less a fascist.

 

[Chillicothe]

"Piss off .......... Fuck you."

As has been mentioned earlier there is a traction-full argument that some overly emotional gun owners....shouldn't be.

Shouldn't be so overemotional.
Shouldn't be gun owners.

So it seems.

 

[daveman]

The parents gave the gun to the kid and even bragged about it on social media. They also ignored warnings from the school that there was something wrong with their son.

They should be held accountable.

Local authorities and the FBI got multiple warnings that the suspected Florida shooter was dangerous — but no one followed up​

The FBI and the Broward County Sheriff's department should be held accountable for the Marjory Stoneman Douglas School shooting.

 

[daveman]

As has been mentioned earlier there is a traction-full argument that some overly emotional gun owners....shouldn't be.

Shouldn't be so overemotional.
Shouldn't be gun owners.

So it seems.

Maybe you should put them in camps. You fascists love putting people in camps.

 

[odanny]

Maybe you should put them in camps. You fascists love putting people in camps.

You're an idiot, you do know this, right?

 

[Lakhota]

OMG, what a family...

 

[daveman]

You're an idiot, you do know this, right?

Coming from you, that's absolutely meaningless.

 

[Lakhota]

MAGA parents are shitty parents.

Locked-Up 'Sullen' Crumbley Family Showing No Remorse After School Shooting, Says Sheriff​

 

[Chillicothe]

"OMG, what a family..."

One can go to the websites of the Detroit Free Press or the Detroit News and other outlets and get local news about the family. The sheriff and the DA have also given pressers and interviews.

In one, the Sheriff described the Crumbley's:

"Suspected Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley along with his parents, who were arrested early Saturday while hiding in a warehouse, have expressed “no remorse,” after an attack that killed four high school students, Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard.....

“We’ve not seen any remorse” from James and Jennifer Crumbley and their 15-year-old son, said Bouchard, who described the family as “obviously sullen,” adding: “Not a lot of conversation.”

“I don’t know whether the sullenness is from being caught or whether it’s from other emotions that are going on, but they haven’t expressed it to us,”