The Life Cycle of Liberty

[Skull Pilot]

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

One can argue that the first settlers to colonize North America from Europe were fleeing bondage and servitude to a government; that their spiritual faith led them to strike out against overwhelming odds for the very slim chance of being free to live as they chose.

That spiritual faith led to an act of great courage. The Declaration of Independence was and still is one of the most important historical documents. ordinary men and women fought against perhaps the greatest power of the world and won their freedom at great cost and sacrifice.

The courage of a few resulted in the liberty of many. The Constitution was meant to establish a government whose sole purpose was to protect the liberty of its citizens.

None can argue that it was our liberties and freedoms that led this country to abundance. In less than two hundred years we were a world power.

But as all great nations we slipped into complacency then;

Apathy

And we will end up back in bondage. But it will be less overt than the bondage our ancestors were subjected to. We will be held in bondage by a caring, benevolent government that denies us liberty so as to protect us from ourselves. Choice is removed and we are to be happy to pay for the privilege of being protected in all aspects of our lives. "Bad for you" things like soda and alcohol are taxed. All risk will be removed and no one will ever suffer the consequences of their poor decisions. We are forced to buy what the government tells us we must or suffer the economic penalties. a larger and larger share of the fruits of our labor will be usurped by the government to exercise this control and we will be happy to give it to them. We have been taught that we are helpless, incapable of making our own decisions. We have been conditioned to believe that we are free when in fact the very freedoms our ancestors fought to win are being taken from us.

 

[Elutherian]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[RodISHI]

Very good post.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

 

[Ringel05]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

Do you hear the sound of that jet flying over your head?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

Why don't you enlighten us. If you have a point to make then make it. If you have an argument present it

Or are you just another of those who would rather have someone else do your work for you?

Go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were 50 years ago and prove it if you can.

Right now we have the government pondering an abomination of a law that will force people to buy insurance and not just any insurance but the insurance the government rtells you is "acceptable" or tax and possibly imprison them if they don't. Not only will the government force us to buy something we may not need or want but it will also penalize you if you have too much insurance with a hefty 40% tax.

We have the government using our tax dollars to bail out the UAW and to prop up a failed AIG while telling us we will be taxed on soda and other foodstuffs the government has deemed bad for us. We have the government dictating what a private company can pay its employees but that's OK because they protecting us because I guess we are just too fucking stupid to look out for ourselves.

We have the speaker of the house all but admitting there will be a VAT in the future so that the government can relieve us of more of our hard earned money and exercise more control over the people.

But go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were just a few decades ago.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I will call out an argument when silly evidence is presented.

We are not freer to oppress the weaker members of society today. That's a good thing, isn't it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I will call out an argument when silly evidence is presented.

We are not freer to oppress the weaker members of society today. That's a good thing, isn't it?

Tell me how the government not taking my money to bail out the UAW and AIG and the government not forcing me to buy insurance i don't like is tantamount to oppressing anyone.

The way I see it the government is oppressing me by reducing my ability to provide financial security to my family by taking a larger and larger share of money I earned to give it to people who did nothing to earn it.

We are less free to provide for our families because the government is too fucking big.

And for the most part the sheep in this country don't care (apathy) and what's worse many of them feel they are entitled to the fruits of my labor in the name of "fairness" or "justice"

So go ahead and follow the herd into bondage and may your chains lay lightly upon you.

 

[rightwinger]

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

Even worse.
We are at a time in history where 10% of the population is in control of 90% of the wealth. We are at a point where for the first time in history the standard of living for the working class is actually decreasing while the wealthy accumulate more personal wealth.
We are at a point in history where basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare are becoming unaffordable for the average worker.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

Even worse.
We are at a time in history where 10% of the population is in control of 90% of the wealth. We are at a point where for the first time in history the standard of living for the working class is actually decreasing while the wealthy accumulate more personal wealth.
We are at a point in history where basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare are becoming unaffordable for the average worker.

We are in a time where people are settling for average instead of aspiring to excel.

Complacency apathy and a sense of entitlement is what's wrong.

why bother to sacrifice and worker longer and harder than the next guy to get ahead?

After all the government will guarantee my mortgage. give me health care and take money from other people so that i can have the same i phone that Bill Gates has.

 

[rightwinger]

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

Even worse.
We are at a time in history where 10% of the population is in control of 90% of the wealth. We are at a point where for the first time in history the standard of living for the working class is actually decreasing while the wealthy accumulate more personal wealth.
We are at a point in history where basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare are becoming unaffordable for the average worker.

We are in a time where people are settling for average instead of aspiring to excel.

Complacency apathy and a sense of entitlement is what's wrong.

why bother to sacrifice and worker longer and harder than the next guy to get ahead?

After all the government will guarantee my mortgage. give me health care and take money from other people so that i can have the same i phone that Bill Gates has.

A Myth perpetrated by the right wing

In fact the American worker puts in more hours than any worker in the industrialized world
The American worker is also more productive than any worker in the world

For this, he gets a decreasing standard of living while the wealthy claim more profit

 

[Skull Pilot]

Even worse.
We are at a time in history where 10% of the population is in control of 90% of the wealth. We are at a point where for the first time in history the standard of living for the working class is actually decreasing while the wealthy accumulate more personal wealth.
We are at a point in history where basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare are becoming unaffordable for the average worker.

We are in a time where people are settling for average instead of aspiring to excel.

Complacency apathy and a sense of entitlement is what's wrong.

why bother to sacrifice and worker longer and harder than the next guy to get ahead?

After all the government will guarantee my mortgage. give me health care and take money from other people so that i can have the same i phone that Bill Gates has.

A Myth perpetrated by the right wing

In fact the American worker puts in more hours than any worker in the industrialized world
The American worker is also more productive than any worker in the world

For this, he gets a decreasing standard of living while the wealthy claim more profit

and Americans spend more than they make.

So tell me who is at fault?

If you have a decreasing standard of living, look in the mirror to see who is at fault.

 

[rightwinger]

We are in a time where people are settling for average instead of aspiring to excel.

Complacency apathy and a sense of entitlement is what's wrong.

why bother to sacrifice and worker longer and harder than the next guy to get ahead?

After all the government will guarantee my mortgage. give me health care and take money from other people so that i can have the same i phone that Bill Gates has.

A Myth perpetrated by the right wing

In fact the American worker puts in more hours than any worker in the industrialized world
The American worker is also more productive than any worker in the world

For this, he gets a decreasing standard of living while the wealthy claim more profit

and Americans spend more than they make.

So tell me who is at fault?

If you have a decreasing standard of living, look in the mirror to see who is at fault.

Yes, a house costs more than you make
You have to borrow money to buy a car, your childs college education costs more than your child can make working, energy costs more, health care costs more, car insurance and health insurance costs more

The American worker has no control over these costs, but his paycheck has not kept pace with rising costs

The wealthy claim they can't afford to pay more, yet seem to pocket more profit

 

[Skull Pilot]

A Myth perpetrated by the right wing

In fact the American worker puts in more hours than any worker in the industrialized world
The American worker is also more productive than any worker in the world

For this, he gets a decreasing standard of living while the wealthy claim more profit

and Americans spend more than they make.

So tell me who is at fault?

If you have a decreasing standard of living, look in the mirror to see who is at fault.

Yes, a house costs more than you make

But you don't have to buy a house that is so expensive you can barely eke out the mortgage payment every month. You don't have to get an adjustable mortgage where you can barely afford the low end of the ARM.

You can buy a smaller more modest house that you can afford to pay the mortgage with some to spare at the end of the month or that if you do lose a job, you can still find enough to pay the bill.

In fact, that is what my wife and i did. we bought a property for our business that we could afford even if our venture didn't fly. we live in a 1000 square foot apt above the business. we didn't get an ARM we saved for years to put money down. and we did this all with a 70K combined income.

You have to borrow money to buy a car

No you don't. you can save a few grand and buy a car. Then you can put the equivalent of a car payment away for several years and buy a better car in cash.

, your childs college education costs more than your child can make working,

no it doesn't. You kid can take classes at night and pay as he goes. So it might take 5 years instead of 4 BFD

energy costs more

,

Energy costs more because the government has to tax it all. If you think it costs a lot now wait until the government rams cap and trade down our throats.

health care costs more

,

and the government will see to it that it gets more expensive. the best low cost health insurance, the HSA, will be deemed unacceptable and the government will force you under threat of economic punishment and imprisonment if you don't buy the "right" plan

car insurance costs more

Then buy a car you can afford to insure and don't get any tickets. Shit I have full coverage on both my cars for less than 100 a month because i have a perfect driving record.

The American worker has no control over these costs

,

I've just shown you that he does.

but his paycheck has not kept pace with rising costs

Then he has the option of earning more doesn't he?

The wealthy claim they can't afford to pay more, yet seem to pocket more profit

who are "the wealthy"? your president will see to it that even those you say you want to protect are paying more for everything.

The government takes more than 50% of the money i earn in taxes and fees. that is the only thing preventing me from providing the most secure future i can for my family.

"The wealthy" aren't taking that money from me.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

gawd, how truly awful.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

One can argue that the first settlers to colonize North America from Europe were fleeing bondage and servitude to a government; that their spiritual faith led them to strike out against overwhelming odds for the very slim chance of being free to live as they chose.

That spiritual faith led to an act of great courage. The Declaration of Independence was and still is one of the most important historical documents. ordinary men and women fought against perhaps the greatest power of the world and won their freedom at great cost and sacrifice.

The courage of a few resulted in the liberty of many. The Constitution was meant to establish a government whose sole purpose was to protect the liberty of its citizens.

None can argue that it was our liberties and freedoms that led this country to abundance. In less than two hundred years we were a world power.

But as all great nations we slipped into complacency then;

Apathy

And we will end up back in bondage. But it will be less overt than the bondage our ancestors were subjected to. We will be held in bondage by a caring, benevolent government that denies us liberty so as to protect us from ourselves. Choice is removed and we are to be happy to pay for the privilege of being protected in all aspects of our lives. "Bad for you" things like soda and alcohol are taxed. All risk will be removed and no one will ever suffer the consequences of their poor decisions. We are forced to buy what the government tells us we must or suffer the economic penalties. a larger and larger share of the fruits of our labor will be usurped by the government to exercise this control and we will be happy to give it to them. We have been taught that we are helpless, incapable of making our own decisions. We have been conditioned to believe that we are free when in fact the very freedoms our ancestors fought to win are being taken from us.

"Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? " - income taxes are not the only revenue source of local, state and federal government.

"It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty." - your alarmist tendencies are hilarious at times. thanx for being you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

Why don't you enlighten us. If you have a point to make then make it. If you have an argument present it

Or are you just another of those who would rather have someone else do your work for you?

Go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were 50 years ago and prove it if you can.

it is up to you to prove we are not freer.

opinion masquerading as fact is all you have so far

Right now we have the government pondering an abomination of a law that will force people to buy insurance and not just any insurance but the insurance the government rtells you is "acceptable" or tax and possibly imprison them if they don't. Not only will the government force us to buy something we may not need or want but it will also penalize you if you have too much insurance with a hefty 40% tax.

We have the government using our tax dollars to bail out the UAW and to prop up a failed AIG while telling us we will be taxed on soda and other foodstuffs the government has deemed bad for us. We have the government dictating what a private company can pay its employees but that's OK because they protecting us because I guess we are just too fucking stupid to look out for ourselves.

We have the speaker of the house all but admitting there will be a VAT in the future so that the government can relieve us of more of our hard earned money and exercise more control over the people.

But go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were just a few decades ago.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

Why don't you enlighten us. If you have a point to make then make it. If you have an argument present it

Or are you just another of those who would rather have someone else do your work for you?

Go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were 50 years ago and prove it if you can.

it is up to you to prove we are not freer.

opinion masquerading as fact is all you have so far

Right now we have the government pondering an abomination of a law that will force people to buy insurance and not just any insurance but the insurance the government rtells you is "acceptable" or tax and possibly imprison them if they don't. Not only will the government force us to buy something we may not need or want but it will also penalize you if you have too much insurance with a hefty 40% tax.

We have the government using our tax dollars to bail out the UAW and to prop up a failed AIG while telling us we will be taxed on soda and other foodstuffs the government has deemed bad for us. We have the government dictating what a private company can pay its employees but that's OK because they protecting us because I guess we are just too fucking stupid to look out for ourselves.

We have the speaker of the house all but admitting there will be a VAT in the future so that the government can relieve us of more of our hard earned money and exercise more control over the people.

But go ahead and tell me we are freer than we were just a few decades ago.

So the baucus bill is opinion? the mandated purchase of insurance in that bill is an opinion?

The tax penalties in that bill are opinion?

that nancy (Bella) pelosi said on TV that the VAT will figure in to health care bills is an opinion?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, please compare federal income taxes in terms of percentages with those in 1920 and 1930 and 1940. I think you are going to be very surprised at what you discover.

The percentage of the population that didn't pay any income tax at all was what in the 20's and 30's?

 

[Skull Pilot]

gawd, how truly awful.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? are we not at a time in history where more people want the government to provide for them at the expense of others?

It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

One can argue that the first settlers to colonize North America from Europe were fleeing bondage and servitude to a government; that their spiritual faith led them to strike out against overwhelming odds for the very slim chance of being free to live as they chose.

That spiritual faith led to an act of great courage. The Declaration of Independence was and still is one of the most important historical documents. ordinary men and women fought against perhaps the greatest power of the world and won their freedom at great cost and sacrifice.

The courage of a few resulted in the liberty of many. The Constitution was meant to establish a government whose sole purpose was to protect the liberty of its citizens.

None can argue that it was our liberties and freedoms that led this country to abundance. In less than two hundred years we were a world power.

But as all great nations we slipped into complacency then;

Apathy

And we will end up back in bondage. But it will be less overt than the bondage our ancestors were subjected to. We will be held in bondage by a caring, benevolent government that denies us liberty so as to protect us from ourselves. Choice is removed and we are to be happy to pay for the privilege of being protected in all aspects of our lives. "Bad for you" things like soda and alcohol are taxed. All risk will be removed and no one will ever suffer the consequences of their poor decisions. We are forced to buy what the government tells us we must or suffer the economic penalties. a larger and larger share of the fruits of our labor will be usurped by the government to exercise this control and we will be happy to give it to them. We have been taught that we are helpless, incapable of making our own decisions. We have been conditioned to believe that we are free when in fact the very freedoms our ancestors fought to win are being taken from us.

"Are we not at a time in history where less than 50% of people pay income taxes? " - income taxes are not the only revenue source of local, state and federal government.

"It seems to me that we are nearing the end of our life cycle of liberty." - your alarmist tendencies are hilarious at times. thanx for being you.

I am not an alarmist.

the global warming kooks are alarmists.

the very fact that the government wants to force people to purchase health insurance that they deem acceptable is yet another nail in the coffin of freedom.

The very fact that more than 50% of most peoples' incomes are eaten up in taxes and government fees of one type or another is a nail in the coffin of liberty

it won't be long before government eats up 60 or 70% of GDP. hell we're at over 45% now but health care costs at a mere 16% of GDP is what's going to bankrupt us right?

Let me tell you something. it's not some wealthy guy or Wal Mart that is endangering your ability to provide financial security for your family. it's the fucking government.