The GREATEST war crime

[Yukon]

On 6th August 1945 a B29 bomber dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima It has been estimated that over the years around 200,000 people have died as a result of this bomb being dropped. This was always a controversial decision. General Dwight Eisenhower told President Harry S. Truman that he was opposed to the dropping of the atom bomb on Japan.

IKE said: " I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face".

Winston Churchill also agreed that it was not necessary to drop the atom bomb on Japan. He later asserted: "It would be a mistake to suppose that the fate of Japan was settled by the atomic bomb. Her defeat was certain before the bomb fell."

Mainly historians have argued that the US used the atom bomb as a warning against the Soviet Union. It was not an attempt to end the war but to determine what happened after the war.

The dropping of the bomb was a terrible war crime, equal to the extermination of the Jews.

 

[del]

On 6th August 1945 a B29 bomber dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima It has been estimated that over the years around 200,000 people have died as a result of this bomb being dropped. This was always a controversial decision. General Dwight Eisenhower told President Harry S. Truman that he was opposed to the dropping of the atom bomb on Japan.

IKE said: " I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face".

Winston Churchill also agreed that it was not necessary to drop the atom bomb on Japan. He later asserted: "It would be a mistake to suppose that the fate of Japan was settled by the atomic bomb. Her defeat was certain before the bomb fell."

Mainly historians have argued that the US used the atom bomb as a warning against the Soviet Union. It was not an attempt to end the war but to determine what happened after the war.

The dropping of the bomb was a terrible war crime, equal to the extermination of the Jews.

*yawn*

you've got sources for those quotes you made up i assume.

 

[manifold]

The nips seem to have gotten over it just fine. Makes one wonder why this canuck douchebag gives a shit.

 

[editec]

One does wonder about the SECOND bomb, of course.

As to the first bomb dropped?

I have no problems with that.

Had I known only what Truman knew at that time, I'd have ordered the mission, too.

 

[manifold]

One does wonder about the SECOND bomb, of course.

As to the first bomb dropped?

I have no problems with that.

Had I known only what Truman knew at that time, I'd have ordered the mission, too.

I don't really wonder any more about the second bomb than I do the first. I'd be interested in why you do.

And also, I've read that some historians believe that not only would the alternative have cost thousands of American soldier's lives, but could have actually resulted in even more Japanese deaths than the bomb (assuming invasion was the alternative). An interesting topic for discussion for sure, but purely subjective and speculative. As for the OP's assertion that it was a war crime, total bullshit.

 

[Skull Pilot]

yeah and it was those damn democrats that did it

 

[Gunny]

One does wonder about the SECOND bomb, of course.

As to the first bomb dropped?

I have no problems with that.

Had I known only what Truman knew at that time, I'd have ordered the mission, too.

I don't really wonder any more about the second bomb than I do the first. I'd be interested in why you do.

And also, I've read that some historians believe that not only would the alternative have cost thousands of American soldier's lives, but could have actually resulted in even more Japanese deaths than the bomb (assuming invasion was the alternative). An interesting topic for discussion for sure, but purely subjective and speculative. As for the OP's assertion that it was a war crime, total bullshit.

The projected loss in US lives alone to invade mainland Japan was estimated at a million.

Even if Eisenhower made the statement dickweed attributed to him, it's just proof of his ignorance in regard to the Japanese people. They would have died to the man protecting Hirohito.

The second bomb was dropped because Japan did not respond to a demand for surrender after the first one. They responded after the second one or there very well could have been more.

 

[Article 15]

yeah and it was those damn democrats that did it

Fuckin' pussies.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It certainly was a crime to drop those bombs on the Japanese.

 

[Kalam]

Our own intelligence indicated that Japan was on the verge of capitulation before we atom bombed them. I'd think that conventional bombings of military targets would have been a less unnecessarily deadly method of placing the straw on the camel's back, but it's all history now, so what does it matter?

 

[AllieBaba]

You guys are pathetic.

 

[WillowTree]

Notice how no American Democwat ever stands up and says it was a horrible crime the Japanese committed that Sunday Morning on Dec. 7th 1941 and sneak attacked the USA?? Notice that?? Wonder why?












THE BLAME AMERICA FIRST CLUB IS ALWAYS IN SESSION

 

[Kalam]

Notice how no American Democwat ever stands up and says it was a horrible crime the Japanese committed that Sunday Morning on Dec. 7th 1941 and sneak attacked the USA?? Notice that?? Wonder why?












THE BLAME AMERICA FIRST CLUB IS ALWAYS IN SESSION

Because Democrats are all secretly Tokyo Rose-loving, Hirohito-worshipping Nips, right? How dare anybody mention something even remotely negative about America's past or present actions?

 

[editec]

One does wonder about the SECOND bomb, of course.

As to the first bomb dropped?

I have no problems with that.

Had I known only what Truman knew at that time, I'd have ordered the mission, too.

I don't really wonder any more about the second bomb than I do the first. I'd be interested in why you do.

Because between the first and second bombs, Japan was so seriously attempting to surrender that the second bomb really wasn't necessary.

AFter the first bomb the military Junta has lost all authority, the Emperor actually got involved and had gained political power he didn't have during the war.

As I understand it, the only point of contention left was whether the Emporer was going to have to step down.

And also, I've read that some historians believe that not only would the alternative have cost thousands of American soldier's lives, but could have actually resulted in even more Japanese deaths than the bomb (assuming invasion was the alternative). An interesting topic for discussion for sure, but purely subjective and speculative. As for the OP's assertion that it was a war crime, total bullshit.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with that the bomb (s ?) save innocent Japanese civilians, and plenty of Americans, too

The bombs probably save millions of Japanese lives.

That first bomb finally made it possible for the Emperor to regain enough authority (over the military junta) because it denuded them of any possible thought that they could fight off the Americans with honor.

It was a coup d' grace for any remaining supports of Tojo, and for that whole militarist shogun thing they had going.

The Japanese were prepared for complete surrender EXCEPT they wanted to insure that their Emperor would not be asked to step down or have his person violated.

There doesn't appear to have been any hurry to blow up Nagasaki.

Certainly not any military reason, at least

After all, the war was lost for Japan and they were ALREADY suing for peace.

The Japanese were prepared to surrender...only not UNCONDITONALLY...

They wanted one condition...that of keeping their emperor's person inviolate.

Given that we allowed them to do so, anyway...AND given that bombing Nagasaki at that stage served no military purpose, the second bombing seems rather pointless, or if not without any pupose, at least rushed for no particular reason.

 

[WillowTree]

Notice how no American Democwat ever stands up and says it was a horrible crime the Japanese committed that Sunday Morning on Dec. 7th 1941 and sneak attacked the USA?? Notice that?? Wonder why?














THE BLAME AMERICA FIRST CLUB IS ALWAYS IN SESSION

Because Democrats are all secretly Tokyo Rose-loving, Hirohito-worshipping Nips, right? How dare anybody mention something even remotely negative about America's past or present actions?

wouldn't be so bad if once in awhile a democwat could intersperse the conversation with something positive about their country.. but that's entirely too much to ask innit?? God Bless America? NO NO nO God Damn America.. that's the ticket!

 

[Xenophon]

Revisionism’s heyday lasted until the 1990s. Then the historiographical ground began to shift. A new body of scholarly work emerged, often based on hitherto unavailable documents, which countered revisionist arguments that the atomic bomb was primarily a diplomatic weapon in 1945, that Japan would have surrendered prior to the planned U.S. invasion had the bomb not been used, and that projected casualty figures for the anticipated invasion of Japan were far lower than those cited by supporters of the decision to use the bomb. The scholars producing these books and articles provided powerful support for Truman’s decision to use the atomic bomb against Japan. Thus Edward Drea’s MacArthur’s Ultra: Codebreaking and the War against Japan (1992) chronicled how Allied intelligence tracked the Japanese military buildup on the southernmost home island of Kyushu in the months prior to Hiroshima, a buildup that demonstrated Tokyo’s intent to fight to the bitter end and rendered all “low” casualty estimates dating from the spring and early summer of 1945––the estimates relied upon by revisionist historians––obsolete and irrelevant months before American soldiers were scheduled to land in Japan. In 1995 Robert P. Newman’s Truman and the Hiroshima Cult demolished the credibility of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey’s claim that Japan would have surrendered in the fall of 1945 absent both the atomic bombs and the Soviet entry into the war, while Robert James Maddox’s Weapons for Victory: The Hiroshima Decision Fifty Years Later effectively dismantled what was left of the “atomic diplomacy” thesis. Two years later, in “Casualty Projections for the U.S. Invasion of Japan, 1945-1946: Planning and Policy Implications” (The Journal of Military History, July 1997), D. M. Giangreco conclusively documented the existence of enormous casualty projections, some of which undeniably reached Truman and his top advisors. The next year, in “The Shock of the Atomic Bomb and Japan’s Decision to Surrender––A Reconsideration” (Pacific Historical Review, November 1998), Sadao Asada, relying on a thorough review of Japanese-language sources, exposed as untenable the contention that Japan was prepared to surrender before Hiroshima or that a modification of the Potsdam Declaration guaranteeing the status of the emperor would have produced a Japanese surrender.

Source here

It is now understood that the 90s revisionists were full of shit, dropping the Abombs were the only sane choice and only way to end the war outside of losing millions of Japanese and maybe 1 million US fighting men in a main force invasion of Japan proper.

Such weapons were not a 'war crime' and in fact no treaty covered this.

 

[Yukon]

German war criminals were hanged because Jewish people died in work camps. The same people who hanged the Germans vaporized some 350000 Japanese civilian men, women, and children. Seems somewhat hypocritical to me but I'm like that you know, kinda fair minded.

 

[WillowTree]

German war criminals were hanged because Jewish people died in work camps. The same people who hanged the Germans vaporized some 350000 Japanese civilian men, women, and children. Seems somewhat hypocritical to me but I'm like that you know, kinda fair minded.

You don't want the US bombing yer azz, don't sneak up on us and bomb the fleet. Learn from history and you'll be okay! Tater!

 

[editec]

One does wonder about the SECOND bomb, of course.

As to the first bomb dropped?

I have no problems with that.

Had I known only what Truman knew at that time, I'd have ordered the mission, too.

I don't really wonder any more about the second bomb than I do the first. I'd be interested in why you do.

And also, I've read that some historians believe that not only would the alternative have cost thousands of American soldier's lives, but could have actually resulted in even more Japanese deaths than the bomb (assuming invasion was the alternative). An interesting topic for discussion for sure, but purely subjective and speculative. As for the OP's assertion that it was a war crime, total bullshit.

The projected loss in US lives alone to invade mainland Japan was estimated at a million.

Even if Eisenhower made the statement dickweed attributed to him, it's just proof of his ignorance in regard to the Japanese people. They would have died to the man protecting Hirohito.

The second bomb was dropped because Japan did not respond to a demand for surrender after the first one. They responded after the second one or there very well could have been more.

No there could not have been more because there were no more bombs to drop.

No Ike was not a dickweed because he understood, as apparently you don't the sequence of events surround the Jananese surrender

Details matter, Gunny....especially in matters of war and peace.

This debate has nothing to do with peaceniks or socialists or any of the other ignorant right wing blather you so often support, dude. so don't label any of us who are aguring about this issue as being in any way shape or form SOFT of the enemy.

Consider that...



..one hell of a lot of American Marines died in the Pacific who might not have had to, with or without those bombs.

That argument is speculative, of course, but it is a drop dead certainty that the war was winding down and Japan knew it.

It is ALSO a certainty that with or without those bombs, Japan's political situation, it's WAR PARTY had lost all credibility, and was on its way out.

FYI Here's a thumbnail of the events leading to up the formal surrender.


January 1945 - MacArthur forwarded to the President a Japanese offer to
surrender

5 April 1945 - Japan appointed Prime Minister Suzuki Kantaro who was
known to be a peace advocate. (meaning end of the influence of the war to the death generals)

8 May 1945 - Japan tried to surrender through the Soviet Union.

June 1945 - Both the US Army and Navy recommended to Truman that he
clarify the US demands in regard to the Emperor. 11 July 1945 - Japan offered to surrender unconditionally, with one
exception - they wished to retain their monarchy.

July 11: Japan writes "make clear to Russia... We have no intention of annexing or
taking possession of the areas which we have been occupying as a result
of the war; we hope to terminate the war".

July 12: The Emeror writes "it is His Majesty's heart's desire to see the swift termination of the war".

July 13: "I sent Ando, Director of the Bureau of Political Affairs to
communicate to the [Soviet] Ambassador that His Majesty desired to
dispatch Prince Konoye as special envoy, carrying with him the personal
letter of His Majesty stating the Imperial wish to end the war" (for
above items, see: U.S. Dept. of State, Potsdam 1, pg. 873-879).

July 18: "Negotiations... necessary... for soliciting Russia's good
offices in concluding the war and also in improving the basis for
negotiations with England and America." (Magic-Diplomatic Summary,
7/18/45, Records of the National Security Agency, Magic Files, RG 457,
Box 18, National Archives).

July 22: "Special Envoy Konoye's mission will be in obedience to the
Imperial Will. He will request assistance in bringing about an end to
the war through the good offices of the Soviet Government." The July
21st communication from Togo also noted that a conference between the
Emperor's emissary, Prince Konoye, and the Soviet Union, was sought, in
preparation for contacting the U.S. and Great Britain (Magic-Diplomatic
Summary, 7/22/45, Records of the National Security Agency, Magic Files,
RG 457, Box 18, National Archives).

July 26: Japan's Ambassador to Moscow, Sato, to the Soviet Acting
Commissar for Foreign Affairs, Lozovsky: "The aim of the Japanese
Government with regard to Prince Konoye's mission is to enlist the good
offices of the Soviet Government in order to end the war."
(Magic-Diplomatic Summary, 7/26/45, Records of the National Security
Agency, Magic Files, RG 457, Box 18, National Archives).

1945 Truman used atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, Hiroshima on
August 6 and Nagasaki on August 9.


exerpted from source

 

[Lycurgus]

I agree with Gunny. As he speaks to the intangibles which the quotes in the opening post does not. The Japanese people would have fought to the last man, had we been put in the position of taking the nation with ground forces. As much as I hate the use of force, I am comfortable that we did what we needed to do for the best interest of our troops and that is where our obligation lays. Anyone who would wish to proclaim those two bombing missions war crimes only wishes to promote anti American propaganda, by choosing to ignore many facts and circumstances. When I read things like this I often wonder if the writers really understand what it means to take another's life and what it means to defend your own life day after day.