The Goal of Health Care Reform

[dblack]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

 

[progressive hunter]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

 

[dblack]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

 

[Oddball]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

Get The State out of it....All the way out.

 

[dblack]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

Get The State out of it....All the way out.

I tend to agree that's a good idea. But here I'm hoping to discuss the goal of health care reform before we talk about the strategy. What goal would be achieved, in your opinion, by getting the state out of it?

 

[TNHarley]

I know it may sound like hyperbole but it srems it may be true considering a lot of dem policies do this: destroy the middle class. A 2 class system is easier to control.
That wasnt a poll option lol

 

[progressive hunter]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

Get The State out of it....All the way out.

do you mean the feds or the states???

because the states at least have a legal authority to be involved,,,

 

[dblack]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

 

[Oddball]

I tend to agree that's a good idea. But here I'm hoping to discuss the goal of health care reform before we talk about the strategy. What goal would be achieved, in your opinion, by getting the state out of it?

Besides "free" shit for everyone, every goal the hand wringers claim to want...Lower prices, better service, more competition, more outlets where care can be administered.....The best examples are Laskik and cosmetic surgery, neither of which are covered by insurance or any other program....The prices keep going down, while the availability and quality keeps going up.

 

[dblack]

I tend to agree that's a good idea. But here I'm hoping to discuss the goal of health care reform before we talk about the strategy. What goal would be achieved, in your opinion, by getting the state out of it?

Besides "free" shit for everyone, every goal the hand wringers claim to want...Lower prices, better service, more competition, more outlets where care can be administered.....The best examples are Laskik and cosmetic surgery, neither of which are covered by insurance or any other program....The prices keep going down, while the availability and quality keeps going up.

So, it sounds like you'd choose the first answer, if you were interested in answering the poll.

 

[progressive hunter]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

 

[dblack]

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to reforming health care in the US is the lack of clarity on what the goal of such reform should be. What do you think the #1 goal of health care reform should be?

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

 

[progressive hunter]

please dont take this with anything but contempt and anger when I tell those and their fed gov friends


THOSE PROGRESSIVE MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE AND DOCTORS OFFICE

have a nice day,,,

if this doesnt apply to you then dont be offended

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

 

[dblack]

Care to answer the poll? Or are you saying there should be no reform at all? That everything is hunky dory with the health care market?

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

 

[progressive hunter]

my answer is not one of the choices,,,


and the system is fucked up because of gov involvement,,,not to mention it violates the constitution,,,

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,
one simple fact is that anytime you have a middle man he always takes his cut and when its the government that money is always wasted where as when it goes private it goes directly back into the economy,,,

and thats not even getting into the constitutional aspect of it

for the life of me I dont understand how people think they can stick their nose into other peoples personal business like this

 

[dblack]

How is it fucked up? What is the problem with health care? That's what I'm trying to find some clarity on with this thread. It's easy to say the system is fucked up. You'll find lots of people who agree with that statement. But what's fucked up about it?

If we can't agree on the answer to that question, we're never going to agree on solutions.

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

 

[progressive hunter]

read my comment again because I clearly said what the problem is and what the solution is,,,

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

 

[dblack]

You're jumping to the cause, but - the cause of what?? I'm trying to get a handle on the perceived symptoms before we worry about the cure. What problems do you think government involvement is causing?

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

 

[progressive hunter]

the biggest one is it violates the constitution and my right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness

not to mention it puts an unseeing gov bureaucrat in charge of my healthcare that I can never confront

While I agree with you, most people are looking at more tangible problems when they think of health care reform. And there are plenty of real problems with the health care market. But if we're not clear on what problems we're trying to solve, we won't be able to agree on government policy.

For example, if health care prices are growing out of control because of health insurance, then we need to stop promoting over-insurance with government subsidies and incentives. But for some people, the whole point of health care reform is to maximize participation on health insurance on the theory that it will bring down the cost of insurance premiums. Still others think it's a crime that anyone should have to pay for their health care - that health care should be "free" - ie paid for by taxpayers in general given out as needed (whatever that means). All these goals contradict each other to some extent.

I'm not saying we have to choose only one goal - but if we have multiple goals, we need to understand how the contradict each other and deal with those contradictions.

you keep missing the point that government policy is directly connected to the rise in prices and changing policy will not do anything but confuse and make it worse,,,

I not missing your point. Your point is just wrong. If we want to undo the damage from decades of bad government policies, we need to change those policies. If we just sit on our hands, the same bad policies will keep driving prices higher.

you keep using change when you should be using undo and remove,,,

Undoing and removing is changing. Seems you're just looking for something to disagree about.

wrong,,,change means exactly that,,,change to something else

remove and undo also mean exactly that,,,after its said and done nothing of the old remains IE government intervention,,,

besides what you want to do is change to something else