The Fight Over Faith

[PoliticalChic]

The Right isn’t alone in being based on faith.

Since socialism/communism has never proven successful, their followers need faith.
OK.... the Right’s followers are promised of an afterlife, and Heaven....and this requires faith.
Or.....does it?
What if there really is proof? I’ll provide same in this thread….betcha’!





1.In 1969, Hillary Rodham wrote a 92-page senior thesis for Wellesley College about the views of community organizer Saul Alinsky, titled "There Is Only the Fight .”
At first glance, one might believe that the fight was for communism, socialism, what Alinsky/Clinton and the Democrats stand for.

But a deeper study would reveal that the real difference between the Left and the Right involves faith…by each side….and the fight is to support faith in the promises and doctrines of Progressives/Leftists that have never been proven.
And because they have never been proven by experience, history, or logic….they require faith.





2. Religions require faith….both of them....yes, Leftism is a religion.

The Left has its own religion, worship of man, collectivized as the state, and the Right worships the God our Founders worshipped, and, based on Genesis 1:26, puts the individual first.
Each side promises fulfillment at some future time and has faith that it will occur. Each without real proof….that’s where faith comes in.





3. The Left is amused by the Right’s faith in God, and in adjudication of our lives, in Heaven, where justice will be meted out. But the Left imagines a socialist Utopia on Earth, which has never occurred, no matter how many are slaughtered in the search.

“The Left says of the Right, “You fools, it is demonstrable that dinosaurs lived one hundred million years ago, I can prove it to you, how can you say the earth was created in 4000BCE?” But this supposed intransigence on the part of the Religious Right is far less detrimental to the health of the body politic than the Left’s love affair with Marxism, Socialism, Racialism, the Command Economy, all of which have been proven via one hundred years of evidence shows only shortages, despotism and murder.”
David Mamet

4.But what if there is proof for the Right’s view….that there is an afterlife, a Heaven?​

And that brings me to an interesting passage in the book “Imagine Heaven: Near-Death Experiences, God's Promises, and the Exhilarating Future That Awaits You”​

by John Burke

“With the advent of modern medicine and superior resuscitation techniques, the prevalence of people being brought back from clinical death has soared. In 1982, “a Gallup poll reported that 8 million people have had near-death episodes,” according to the New York Times.” “Near-Death Experiences Illuminate Dying Itself,” NYTimes.com, October 28, 1986, http://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/28/science/near- death-periences-illuminate-dying-itself.html.html

Approximately 4.2 percent of the population has reported a near-death experience (NDE).

What do many of them report when they ‘come back’?

Examples in this thread.

 

[rightwinger]

The Right isn’t alone in being based on faith.

The Right is based on faith not facts

Faith that Trump really won the election
Faith that Climate change doesn’t exist
Faith that vaccines don’t work
Faith that COVID is a myth
Faith that everyone is against them

 

[Moonglow]

You want to believe in fairies and gnomes that is your business. My father in law died while drowning and was out for fifteen minutes yet confessed that there was nothing while decreased.

 

[Hollie]

Here's something from those evilutionist atheist scientists.



New Clues Found in Understanding Near-Death Experiences.

Research finds parallels to certain psychoactive drugs.

New Clues Found in Understanding Near-Death Experiences

Research finds parallels to certain psychoactive drugs

www.scientificamerican.com

Not surprisingly, many have seized on NDEs as evidence of life after death, heaven and the existence of god. The descriptions of leaving the body and blissful unity with the universal seem almost scripted from religious beliefs about souls leaving the body at death and ascending toward heavenly bliss. But these experiences are shared across a broad range of cultures and religions so it’s not likely that they are all reflections of specific religious expectations.

Instead, that commonality suggests that NDEs might arise from something more fundamental than religious or cultural expectations. Perhaps NDEs reflect changes in how the brain functions as we approach death.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The Right is based on faith not facts

Faith that Trump really won the election
Faith that Climate change doesn’t exist
Faith that vaccines don’t work
Faith that COVID is a myth
Faith that everyone is against them

Do you have links to your so called "facts" or are you just posting faith ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Do you have links to your so called "facts" or are you just posting faith ?

Don't you recognize that one???

Most prodigious liar on this board.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Millions have ‘died’ on the operating table, and then, been resuscitated.

It is one of those miracles of modern medicine.

But many of them have made astounding reports of the time they were ‘dead.’



5. “… patients claiming they had left their physical body and observed their own resuscitation. Here was corroborative evidence—some verifiable way to substantiate whether these tales were more than hallucination or reactions of a dying brain. Dr. Sabom records multiple stories like that of Pete Morton. [Pete] told me he had left his body during his first cardiac arrest and had watched the resuscitation. When I asked him to tell me what exactly he saw, he described the resuscitation with such detail and accuracy that I could have later used the tape to teach physicians.

Pete remembered seeing a doctor’s first attempt to restore his heartbeat. “He struck me. And I mean he really whacked me. He came back with his fist from way behind his head and he hit me right in the center of my chest.” Pete remembered them inserting a needle into his chest in a procedure that he said looked like “one of those Aztec Indian rituals where they take the virgin’s heart out.”

He even remembered thinking that when they shocked him they gave him too much voltage. “Man, my body jumped about two feet off the table.” “Before talking with Pete, and scores like him,” Sabom says, “I didn’t believe there was such a thing as a near-death experience. . . . These people, like Pete Morton, saw details of their resuscitation that they could not otherwise have seen. One patient noticed the physician who failed to wear scuffs over his white, patent- leather shoes during open-heart surgery. In many cases I was able to confirm the patient’s testimony with medical records and with hospital staff.” Dr. Michael Sabom



Interesting???

How to explain such an event…..and how to explain that there are many such examples??

 

[rightwinger]

Do you have links to your so called "facts" or are you just posting faith ?

Facts that Biden won the election?

 

[Penelope]

Sugrue notes that this is in keeping with Alinsky's stance in the 1930s, when he "had little patience for the bona fide socialists and card-carrying Communists" and "repudiated Marxism."

Who is Saul Alinsky, and why does the right hate him so much?

The Chicago-based community organizer and Hillary Clinton corresponded when she was young. Is that a bad thing?

www.vox.com

 

[Penelope]

Millions have ‘died’ on the operating table, and then, been resuscitated.

It is one of those miracles of modern medicine.

But many of them have made astounding reports of the time they were ‘dead.’



5. “… patients claiming they had left their physical body and observed their own resuscitation. Here was corroborative evidence—some verifiable way to substantiate whether these tales were more than hallucination or reactions of a dying brain. Dr. Sabom records multiple stories like that of Pete Morton. [Pete] told me he had left his body during his first cardiac arrest and had watched the resuscitation. When I asked him to tell me what exactly he saw, he described the resuscitation with such detail and accuracy that I could have later used the tape to teach physicians.

Pete remembered seeing a doctor’s first attempt to restore his heartbeat. “He struck me. And I mean he really whacked me. He came back with his fist from way behind his head and he hit me right in the center of my chest.” Pete remembered them inserting a needle into his chest in a procedure that he said looked like “one of those Aztec Indian rituals where they take the virgin’s heart out.”

He even remembered thinking that when they shocked him they gave him too much voltage. “Man, my body jumped about two feet off the table.” “Before talking with Pete, and scores like him,” Sabom says, “I didn’t believe there was such a thing as a near-death experience. . . . These people, like Pete Morton, saw details of their resuscitation that they could not otherwise have seen. One patient noticed the physician who failed to wear scuffs over his white, patent- leather shoes during open-heart surgery. In many cases I was able to confirm the patient’s testimony with medical records and with hospital staff.” Dr. Michael Sabom



Interesting???

How to explain such an event…..and how to explain that there are many such examples??

Oh the big bogyman and Soros too, is it them who keep you up at night.

Near death does not cut it, death only does, and once you gone it's all over.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Facts that Biden won the election?

He won the election like Lance Armstrong won the Tour De France

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh the big bogyman and Soros too, is it them who keep you up at night.

Near death does not cut it, death only does, and once you gone it's all over.

Glad to see the palpable fear this thread creates in your sort.


Maybe the indoctrination isn't permanent.

 

[rightwinger]

He won the election like Lance Armstrong won the Tour De France

Sorry Skippy
But I don’t engage in stolen election fantasies

But you have faith, don’t ya Skippy?

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. As evidenced by several posts above, a very good way to trigger Liberals/Leftists is to admit to a belief in God, and an afterlife. The go off about it having no proof…..while they vote for and believe things for which there is no proof all the time….socialism, Darwin’s Theory, racism, the benefits of releasing felons with no jail time, covid killing 800,000…whatever.


The New Testament promises and afterlife to Christians.


Dennis Prager states that Jewish folks believe in an afterlife.

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied.

Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.”

25.7 This was the total span of Abraham’s life: one hundred and seventy-five years.
25.8 And Abraham breathed his last, dying at a good ripe age, old and contented; and he was gathered to his kin.
Dennis Prager, “Genesis”


Of course, the alleged atheists become unhinged when this is claimed......not realizing that they have become part of the same religion that the Bolsheviks, the Nazis, the French Revolution....and the Progressives.....endorse.

 

[PoliticalChic]

7. Prager goes on to suggest that there is no proof of an afterlife….on purpose.



Prager has a truly clever analysis of why there isn’t.

If the Bible made a definite statement that there is such a judgment it would obviate the central gift to mankind: free will.

Free will and the intelligence to judge our actions are left to the individual. Perhaps that is why evil continues to exist….an individual doesn’t know for a fact that they will be held responsible for their actions. But it they did.....

“If people knew that if they acted badly in this world they would be immediately punished, there would no longer be free will (even career criminals don’t commit crimes in the presence of police).” Prager



So….not knowing, not being certain of an afterlife, demands faith and self-discipline…and due diligence.



Now….if it is ‘proof’ you are after, individuals who have died on the operating table, as per the OP, could/should be considered in that light (pun intended).

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. There are two distinctly different sorts of ‘proof.’


Many of us have heard descriptions from those who ‘died’ and came back to repot tunnels, light, meeting departed loved ones. OK….you can dismiss them because they might be repeating what they heard.



But…..how to explain those who report on exactly what happened in the operating room while they were ‘dead’???????

Here is the first sort.

There are many examples of the phenomenon in medical journals, and this one is typical.

“The Near-Death Experience: Diagnosis and Treatment Of a Common Medical Syndrome https://www.clinicaloncology.com/Current-Practice/Article/11–18/The-NearDeath-Experience-Diagnosis-and-Treatment-Of-a-Common-Medical-Syndrome/53189

A 48-year-old Italian-American man underwent exploratory laparotomy at North Kansas City Hospital, in Missouri, when he suffered uncontrolled hemorrhage and cardiac arrest. He was in extremis for 40 minutes and was defibrillated several times. He stayed in the ICU for 10 days and the hospital for 45 days. In the ICU, he told his physicians and nurses, “When I was dead, I went to heaven and saw my mother and God.”

… the patient told me about the NDE. He said he suddenly felt at peace, left his body and looked down to see surgeons sticking their hands into a blood-filled abdomen and anesthesiologists pumping blood into both arms. He entered a tunnel of light and “went to heaven.” He claimed that he was met by his deceased mother in a joyful reunion. With his mother he met and became one with the deity, who he described as being a brilliant ball of loving light.

...observed, “Heaven is everything I hoped it would be and more. I can’t begin to describe how at peace I was.” His mother then told him it was not “his time” and that he had to go back to earth, but they would be together again.”

 

[Wyatt earp]

Sorry Skippy
But I don’t engage in stolen election fantasies

But you have faith, don’t ya Skippy?

So in your world Lance won fair and square?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Now….a ‘report’ of what was going on while the individual was ‘dead’ and could not have witnessed, is hardly possible to explain.
And this:

9. “Numerous repeated cases in which someone is apparently unconscious in a hospital bed and reported seeing things they could not have seen from that bed prompted many doctors and professors to take these stories seriously.

Kimberly Clark Sharp, a noted NDE researcher in Seattle, Washington, reported a case study in which a woman named Maria was rushed to the hospital with a severe heart attack. After successful resuscitation, Maria told Sharp about her near-death experience, including detailed out-of-body observations of her resuscitation.

Then she went one step beyond.
She claimed to travel outside the hospital, she said, where she observed a tennis shoe on the third-story window ledge of the hospital. Maria provided detailed information about the shoe. It was a man’s shoe, she said, left- footed, and dark blue with a wear mark over the little toe and a shoelace tucked under the heel.

Sharp went window to window on the hospital’s third floor looking on the ledges. Finally, she found the shoe, exactly as Maria had described it. As Dr. Long points out, this account offers substantial evidence, despite the attempts of some skeptics to discredit it.”
Long and Perry, Evidence of the Afterlife, p.72-73


A lucky guess???

Is there a shoe outside every window???

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. “The Lancet, one of Europe’s most prestigious medical journals, published the account of a patient who had experienced cardiac arrest and was brought into the hospital comatose and not breathing. As a tube was placed in the patient’s airway in order to ventilate him, it was noted by the medical staff that the patient wore upper dentures. The dentures were removed and tucked into the drawer of a nearby crash-cart while the patient was in a deep coma.

After resuscitation, the patient was moved to another room where he remained unconscious. A week later, the patient regained consciousness. When the nurse came in he exclaimed, “Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are.” The nurse was very surprised as the patient explained: “Yes, you were there when I was brought into the hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that cart, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.”

The nurse reported in The Lancet, “I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in a deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR.” The Lancet article cited in Journal of Near-Death Studies 27, no. 1 (Fall 2008): 48 (online reference: http://netwerknde.nl/wp-content/ up-loads/jnds-ture-man.pdf).

 

[PoliticalChic]

11. “Many Say They Have Died and Visited Heaven. Pastor Who Has Examined More Than 1,000 Near-Death Experiences Stories Shares Findings​

John Burke, a pastor and author who has studied and examined over 1,000 accounts of near-death experiences, has been on a mission to help people better understand these claims.

Burke, author of the bestselling book, “Imagine Heaven: Near-Death Experiences, God’s Promises, and the Exhilarating Future That Awaits You,” recently told “The Pure Flix Podcast” he’s a firm devotee of evidence and reason and believes accounts of near-death experiences have credibility.

… he wrote “Imagine Heaven” to explore the correlations and commonalities seen in near-death experience cases across the globe…. in an age when modern medical resuscitation can now allow people to come back from the brink of death.

“This is modern, medical, scientific evidence that the God of the Bible is real,” he said.

Burke said hundreds of scholarly articles have been written about near-death experiences in medical journals, with researchers looking at those who have detailed their ventures.

“[Researchers recorded] all the observations [among those with near-death experiences] claim to have outside their bodies and then a control group that did not claim to have a near-death experience and what they imagined might have been happening in the room of their resuscitation,” …the near-death experience group was reportedly 92% correct, with an additional 6% being at least somewhat accurate with their details.” Many Say They Have Died and Visited Heaven. Pastor Who Has Examined More Than 1,000 Near-Death Experiences Stories Shares Findings

Is this ‘proof’????



Why not?