The Decline Of Unions

[Blaster]

Our country would be better off with no unions. They protect bad workers and penalize productive ones. I don't believe in collective bargaining.

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[rightwinger]

The middle class has deteriorated since the demise of Labor Unions.

Lower pay, lost benefits, no job security

 

[Mr Natural]

Assuming you work at all, you are getting paid what you get paid partly because of unions.

 

[para bellum]

Private sector unions are fine. Capital on one side of the table and labor on the other side. If labor over-reaches, the company has recourse, they can move somewhere else. If capital over-reaches, the union can walk and bring it all to a dead stop.

Public sector unions should be abolished, the equation does not work. You can't just relocate schools and police departments and government to a friendlier environment if the union is unreasonable, and there is no evil capitalist on the other side of the table to fight for the taxpayers.

Public sector wages and benefits should be set by legislatures, take it or leave it. If you don't like it, get a private sector job. If the gov't can't get qualified people, the legislatures will have to sweeten the pot or discontinue the services. They will be answerable to the voters.

The decline of private sector unions in the US is the union's own fault- they ceded their power to the Government. Most of the benefits the unions won for their members have been incorporated into labor laws (by their own demand)- 40 hour workweeks, overtime pay, paid time off, etc. The marginal benefit unions provide to the worker has decreased to the point where workers don't see the value as much today. So they don't unionize at the rate they did in the past.

 

[lg325]

Having lawyers watching your back is a good thing all wealthy people have them and with a union working folks can have theirs . If you work for a large corporation or any large group you need to have some one watching your back no matter if your a common laborer or even up to middle management . I guarantee if there is trouble in the organization the blame will be on those least able to defend themselves.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Private sector unions are fine. Capital on one side of the table and labor on the other side. If labor over-reaches, the company has recourse, they can move somewhere else. If capital over-reaches, the union can walk and bring it all to a dead stop.

Public sector unions should be abolished, the equation does not work. You can't just relocate schools and police departments and government to a friendlier environment if the union is unreasonable, and there is no evil capitalist on the other side of the table to fight for the taxpayers.

Public sector wages and benefits should be set by legislatures, take it or leave it. If you don't like it, get a private sector job. If the gov't can't get qualified people, the legislatures will have to sweeten the pot or discontinue the services. They will be answerable to the voters.

The decline of private sector unions in the US is the union's own fault- they ceded their power to the Government. Most of the benefits the unions won for their members have been incorporated into labor laws (by their own demand)- 40 hour workweeks, overtime pay, paid time off, etc. The marginal benefit unions provide to the worker has decreased to the point where workers don't see the value as much today. So they don't unionize at the rate they did in the past.

were i worked the union was the only thing standing up to management for job safety....

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The middle class has deteriorated since the demise of Labor Unions.

Lower pay, lost benefits, no job security

View attachment 1020549

That Happened Because the Democrats Abandoned Them

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Private sector unions are fine. Capital on one side of the table and labor on the other side. If labor over-reaches, the company has recourse, they can move somewhere else. If capital over-reaches, the union can walk and bring it all to a dead stop.

Public sector unions should be abolished, the equation does not work. You can't just relocate schools and police departments and government to a friendlier environment if the union is unreasonable, and there is no evil capitalist on the other side of the table to fight for the taxpayers.

Public sector wages and benefits should be set by legislatures, take it or leave it. If you don't like it, get a private sector job. If the gov't can't get qualified people, the legislatures will have to sweeten the pot or discontinue the services. They will be answerable to the voters.
The marginal benefit unions provide to the worker has decreased to the point where workers don't see the value as much today. So they don't unionize at the rate they did in the past.

Inadequate Fathers Bred Loyal Serfs

The scab generations have been emasculated, and the little boytoys look at their bosses as imaginary father figures.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Having lawyers watching your back is a good thing all wealthy people have them and with a union working folks can have theirs . If you work for a large corporation or any large group you need to have some one watching your back no matter if your a common laborer or even up to middle management . I guarantee if there is trouble in the organization the blame will be on those least able to defend themselves.

Lazy Laissez-Fairies Can Only Get Rich in Sweatshops

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

were i worked the union was the only thing standing up to management for job safety....

Without a Union, It's Man Against Millionaire

 

[Harry Dresden]

Without a Union, It's Man Against Millionaire

not in the PO its man against assholes....

 

[para bellum]

were i worked the union was the only thing standing up to management for job safety....

Any worker in America that is compelled to commit a safety violation has a recourse in OSHA. Union or non-union. OSHA (or the State equivalent) investigates all complaints. There is a huge body of regulation addressing workplace safety, and none of it is optional for any employer.

I suspect what you are calling job safety is really better working conditions- lower hours, hire more people to reduce the workload, etc.

The USPS is a unique case, and I am more tolerant of collective bargaining for postal workers. It is a quasi-corporation, and is not part of the Federal budget. Postal workers do not have the right to strike, so as long as that is off the table I do not object to collective bargaining rights for postal workers.

And the Legislature does not really have a role in setting wages and benefits for postal workers, since they are not funding the postal service, and (in theory anyway) it's not taxpayer money that is being negotiated for.

 

[westwall]

The middle class has deteriorated since the demise of Labor Unions.

Lower pay, lost benefits, no job security

View attachment 1020549

More due to the rise of demofascist power.

 

[para bellum]

More due to the rise of demofascist power.

Offshoring of manufacturing to low-wage, low-regulation countries, and the conversion of those higher paying jobs in the US to lower paying service sector jobs.

~25% of the workforce in manufacturing in the 70's, down to 8% today. Those were jobs where a single earner could support a family...

 

[westwall]

Offshoring of manufacturing to low-wage, low-regulation countries, and the conversion of those higher paying jobs in the US to lower paying service sector jobs.

~25% of the workforce in manufacturing in the 70's, down to 8% today. Those were jobs where a single earner could support a family...

View attachment 1020799

All brought about by government either regulating the businesses so bad that they had to leave, or they were paid to leave by government intrusion.

 

[para bellum]

All brought about by government either regulating the businesses so bad that they had to leave, or they were paid to leave by government intrusion.

Absolutely it was policy decision by the government, supported by both parties.

 

[westwall]

Absolutely it was policy decision by the government, supported by both parties.

There is one party. Democrats are the A team, repubs were the B team. Designed to give the appearance of choice.

But a RINO IS a democrat.

One party, the political class.

At war with us.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Any worker in America that is compelled to commit a safety violation has a recourse in OSHA. Union or non-union. OSHA (or the State equivalent) investigates all complaints. There is a huge body of regulation addressing workplace safety, and none of it is optional for any employer.

I suspect what you are calling job safety is really better working conditions- lower hours, hire more people to reduce the workload, etc.

The USPS is a unique case, and I am more tolerant of collective bargaining for postal workers. It is a quasi-corporation, and is not part of the Federal budget. Postal workers do not have the right to strike, so as long as that is off the table I do not object to collective bargaining rights for postal workers.

And the Legislature does not really have a role in setting wages and benefits for postal workers, since they are not funding the postal service, and (in theory anyway) it's not taxpayer money that is being negotiated for.

OSHA?....dont make me laugh....they ask the PO about a safety violation,the PO says we are aware of it and are fixing it.....OSHA says ok,......no its not ok....the UNION has to get involved to get it fixed....fellow federal agencies dont police each other.....the Legislature does not really have a role in setting wages and benefits for postal workers.....Congress and all its little agencies like the Board of Governors run the place ....the PMG cant shit without asking them if he can...

 

[gtopa1]

Having lawyers watching your back is a good thing all wealthy people have them and with a union working folks can have theirs . If you work for a large corporation or any large group you need to have some one watching your back no matter if your a common laborer or even up to middle management . I guarantee if there is trouble in the organization the blame will be on those least able to defend themselves.

I do wish you were correct but you are not....though of course you can claim "partial" truth...though half truths are as bad as lies imo. Yes; a good shop steward is worth their weight in gold; I have ZERO hesitation in saying that because I've known quite a few. Some are crap; others are just fantastic. Where it comes unstuck is going up the ladder in the Union hierarchy. They frankly lose touch all too often with their rank and file. This is sad because THAT is where the most harm is done to ordinary members. You recall the Pigs in Animal Farm?? Union "bosses"!!

The answer? Rank and file gotta "fight fight fight"; not so much their employer but ensure those who represent them are really working for MEMBER interests!! but by God I've seen some losses.

Greg

 

[gipper]

Our country would be better off with no unions. They protect bad workers and penalize productive ones. I don't believe in collective bargaining.

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Wrong. All American workers should unionize. Stop believing the propaganda fed you by billionaires and their big corporations.