The Decline of Morality

[IControlThePast]

Many people agree that we are in a period of moral decline. When and why do you think it started? The Enlightenment, Rationalism, Science, the Industrial Revolution, the Rise of Nationalism, the Jazz Age, the decline of the Nuclear Family, the Counterculture, the Clinton Presidency, etc. What started the undermining of religion in Western Society, or has it not started yet? Has our morality actually been ever increasing after giving women's suffrage and

I was personally taught that the decline started in the late 18th to early 19th centuries. People had started to look to science for solutions they couldn't find in the Bible, leaving the Bible to be more of a cultural identity than a guidebook anymore. Then the rise of nationalism changed the ingroup/outgroup for cultural identity to the Nation instead of Religion, and the social problems from the Industrial Revolution made many people lose faith in a loving God.

 

[dilloduck]

Many people agree that we are in a period of moral decline. When and why do you think it started? The Enlightenment, Rationalism, Science, the Industrial Revolution, the Rise of Nationalism, the Jazz Age, the decline of the Nuclear Family, the Counterculture, the Clinton Presidency, etc. What started the undermining of religion in Western Society, or has it not started yet? Has our morality actually been ever increasing after giving women's suffrage and

I was personally taught that the decline started in the late 18th to early 19th centuries. People had started to look to science for solutions they couldn't find in the Bible, leaving the Bible to be more of a cultural identity than a guidebook anymore. Then the rise of nationalism changed the ingroup/outgroup for cultural identity to the Nation instead of Religion, and the social problems from the Industrial Revolution made many people lose faith in a loving God.

Lots to chew on with variables out the wazoo but I'll start the ball rolling with and off the cuff and unresearched opinion.
I think the combination of a government that allows and even encourages personal expression and a religion that encourages forgiveness and humility has resulted in tolerance of behavior that had previously been unacceptable. People who exhibited such behavior were punished in a manner severe enough that made them think twice about repeating such behavior and others who witnessed the punishment were "motivated" to not incur the same consequences.
OK--there's one guess.
Next!

 

[IControlThePast]

Lots to chew on with variables out the wazoo but I'll start the ball rolling with and off the cuff and unresearched opinion.
I think the combination of a government that allows and even encourages personal expression and a religion that encourages forgiveness and humility has resulted in tolerance of behavior that had previously been unacceptable. People who exhibited such behavior were punished in a manner severe enough that made them think twice about repeating such behavior and others who witnessed the punishment were "motivated" to not incur the same consequences.
OK--there's one guess.
Next!

It's a pretty broad topic, many possible answers and personal opinions.

So basically what you're saying is that Christianity and it's gospel of forgiveness is when the moral decline started. It's been said to me before that the weakness of the Isrealites at times came from their belief in a just God instead of a vengeful one who would step on them at every wrong turn.

 

[Said1]

It's a pretty broad topic, many possible answers and personal opinions.

So basically what you're saying is that Christianity and it's gospel of forgiveness is when the moral decline started. It's been said to me before that the weakness of the Isrealites at times came from their belief in a just God instead of a vengeful one who would step on them at every wrong turn.

You got all that from his post?

I think it was Jack Kerouac and the rest of the beatniks, eh Dillo?

 

[dilloduck]

It's a pretty broad topic, many possible answers and personal opinions.

So basically what you're saying is that Christianity and it's gospel of forgiveness is when the moral decline started. It's been said to me before that the weakness of the Isrealites at times came from their belief in a just God instead of a vengeful one who would step on them at every wrong turn.

I was thinking more of the combination of Christianity and democracy ( in it's ever changing nature) as opposed to just Christianity. I've never heard the Israelites called weak for that reason but I think the doctrines of humilty and forgiveness in the Christian religion can give the appearance of weakness. So many have taken away different messages from Christianity that I'm sure this varies a lot depending on different teachings and even geographical location.
Democracy has given rise to greater temptations IMHO.

 

[theim]

I would argue that the decline began during the Enlightenment, when "secular humanists" decided that Science held all the answers to everything. This made God irrelevent, and thus the standards of Good and Evil were no longer on a solid foundation such as the church, but were left up to humans to decide.

This type of thinking that originated during that period led to atrocities such as the USSR, where religion was declared to be the "opiate of the masses", to quote Marx, and the moral relativism that followed allowed for Collectivization, starving millions of peasents, and making people disappear into gulags (real gulags, in Siberia, with no clean uniforms, no lemon-glazed chicken, and no preference of religious tome, and where "exercise" consisted of digging your own mass grave in sub-zero temperatures wearing nothing but long-jons).

 

[Merlin]

The answer is as obvious as the nose on your face. Moral decline started the day they let the Beetles get off the plane in the U.S.A. (Where were the terrorist that day)

 

[Adam's Apple]

The decline of morality may have started way back when, but it really took on a full head of power and steam in the 60s of the 20th century and has been moving full force ahead ever since. Hardly any aspect of our lives has not been affected by this steamroller for the past 45 years.

 

[Eightball]

It's a pretty broad topic, many possible answers and personal opinions.

So basically what you're saying is that Christianity and it's gospel of forgiveness is when the moral decline started. It's been said to me before that the weakness of the Isrealites at times came from their belief in a just God instead of a vengeful one who would step on them at every wrong turn.

Instead of "it's been said"......why not go to the source, the bible.

It's account of Isreal's problems indicated that it(moral decline) happened whenever Isreal started to abandon their worship/following of God(The God of Isaac, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, etc.), and started worshipping Baal, all kinds of man made gods, etc.

Now another point was made that moral decline is in "check" when folks see or receive strong punishment for law-breaking in society, and that the gospel of forgiveness counters that, and creates a moral decline?

Moral decline happens when Christianity becomes a duty, or obligation rather than a true relationship with God.

The very Torah-following, Jew's, of Jesus's time were the very ones that Jesus Himself assailed as the most flagrant breakers of God's commands.

The heart of the Christian faith is not a bunch of rules, but a relationship where God's Spirit that encompasses all the Law's of God become inplanted in the true believer's heart. Instead of obeying God out of fear, obedience comes from Love, as a child's love for their parents.

The excellent book of Romans in the New Testament, authored by Paul does a splendid job of explaining the difference between, obedience out of fear, and obedience engendered from a love-relationship.

Most people wince at Christianity, as they see it in the same light as all other religions, "just a bunch of rules to follow", in order to keep from being punished by a stern creator.

This is totally incorrect, and not biblical. As most folks who believe this have not read the scriptures in total, and realized that Christ advent was a plan created before the earth's creation, by a loving redeeming Creator to restore a relationship with his human creation that was severed by by sin, which was typified by willfull rebellion.

 

[Gabriella84]

If you want to know why morality is in steep decline, turn on the TV. Go see a movie. Read any magazine that appeals to popular culture.
Our focus is on abstinence, and why teens should avoid sex until they are married. We preach it in schools and at home, then turn on the TV. Where most of the shows present vivid accounts of how awesome sex is. Same with most of pop culture.
Talk about mixed messages!

 

[Joz]

If you want to know why morality is in steep decline, turn on the TV. Go see a movie. Read any magazine that appeals to popular culture.
.....

And who sits at the controls of these?

 

[IControlThePast]

Instead of "it's been said"......why not go to the source, the bible.

It's account of Isreal's problems indicated that it(moral decline) happened whenever Isreal started to abandon their worship/following of God(The God of Isaac, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, etc.), and started worshipping Baal, all kinds of man made gods, etc.

Now another point was made that moral decline is in "check" when folks see or receive strong punishment for law-breaking in society, and that the gospel of forgiveness counters that, and creates a moral decline?

Moral decline happens when Christianity becomes a duty, or obligation rather than a true relationship with God.

The very Torah-following, Jew's, of Jesus's time were the very ones that Jesus Himself assailed as the most flagrant breakers of God's commands.

The heart of the Christian faith is not a bunch of rules, but a relationship where God's Spirit that encompasses all the Law's of God become inplanted in the true believer's heart. Instead of obeying God out of fear, obedience comes from Love, as a child's love for their parents.

The excellent book of Romans in the New Testament, authored by Paul does a splendid job of explaining the difference between, obedience out of fear, and obedience engendered from a love-relationship.

Most people wince at Christianity, as they see it in the same light as all other religions, "just a bunch of rules to follow", in order to keep from being punished by a stern creator.

This is totally incorrect, and not biblical. As most folks who believe this have not read the scriptures in total, and realized that Christ advent was a plan created before the earth's creation, by a loving redeeming Creator to restore a relationship with his human creation that was severed by by sin, which was typified by willfull rebellion.

Because I wanted to leave it open to all people, including ones who may not think the Bible is "the source."

Another example of the "weak Christian" idea can be found in the movie The Black Robe. It's quite historically accurate, and details the Jesuit mission's efforts to convert the Huron Indians. Well to give away the ending and tell you what happened in real life, they mission converts the tribe in the end, and 20 months later they are almost completely wiped off the planet by the Iroquios. If the good are also the weak because they are the good, well then there's a way for moral decline because evil is succeeding. That certainly is a possible view, kinda ties into Nietzsche's Will to Power.

 

[Hobbit]

If you want to know why morality is in steep decline, turn on the TV. Go see a movie. Read any magazine that appeals to popular culture.
Our focus is on abstinence, and why teens should avoid sex until they are married. We preach it in schools and at home, then turn on the TV. Where most of the shows present vivid accounts of how awesome sex is. Same with most of pop culture.
Talk about mixed messages!

That is a symptom and a prepetuation, not a cause. Commonplace promiscuity became common practice in the real world long before it became common on TV. Married TV couples still slept in different beds when the 60s sexual revolution started. I think it really ran away when the GI generation raised the baby boomers in a booming economy with every comfort they never had and the baby boomers failed to realize what it was really like to earn their keep, unlike the GI generation that grew up doing manual labor to keep ther family from starving during the 30s.

 

[disciple2184]

Many people agree that we are in a period of moral decline. When and why do you think it started? The Enlightenment, Rationalism, Science, the Industrial Revolution, the Rise of Nationalism, the Jazz Age, the decline of the Nuclear Family, the Counterculture, the Clinton Presidency, etc. What started the undermining of religion in Western Society, or has it not started yet? Has our morality actually been ever increasing after giving women's suffrage and

I was personally taught that the decline started in the late 18th to early 19th centuries. People had started to look to science for solutions they couldn't find in the Bible, leaving the Bible to be more of a cultural identity than a guidebook anymore. Then the rise of nationalism changed the ingroup/outgroup for cultural identity to the Nation instead of Religion, and the social problems from the Industrial Revolution made many people lose faith in a loving God.

I can't understand what makes people think the world was ever, moral?

 

[Gem]

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
-- Socrates

I think every generation worries about moral decline. I'm not sure if its decline so much as a natural ebb and flow.

 

[disciple2184]

morality is something the world really, never knew

 

[cbi0090]

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
-- Socrates

I think every generation worries about moral decline. I'm not sure if its decline so much as a natural ebb and flow.

I would agree. It's not so much moral decline as moral change, which is always going to be met with resistance from the previous generation. There's nothing wrong with questioning the status quo every generation of or so. It keeps dogma from getting too comfortable.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When does moral decline start? The very moment the individual starts to abandon the very values and ethics that they've held dear over the course of their lives up to then.

It IS possible to be "moral" in the middle of debauchery and sin. Lot is one good example, and Jesus is another.

When the individual starts to say "it's not my job to clean it up", and "don't worry, someone will come along", leaving it for someone else? Well......most times it doesn't get done, and there is where the moral decay of society happens.

BTW......I have no morals. Don't need 'em, because morals are nothing more than values and ethics placed on the individual by society at large. In Aztec society, it was "moral" to hold grotesque bloody sacrifices of humans, because that is what their society dictated. In Europe, it is "moral" to walk down the beach topless for women, here in America, it isn't. Which is "more moral"? Depends on where you live. In Europe, they call us prudes, and here, we call them degenerates. Depends on your perspective I guess.

I'd rather have a good set of values and ethics. I follow the laws of society, because they are convenient, but, there are ones that I simply do not agree with, and those are the ones I simply ignore. Does that make me a bad man? Schindler in WWII, broke laws, risked the lives of others repeatedly, but he did it in the name of a good cause. Because he also ignored some laws, does that make him less moral that the person that says nothing and ignores what is going on around them while their neighbors are disappearing? They aren't breaking the laws.

 

[aztech]

When did we have morality?

When we were murdering Native Americans to take over their land?
When we were burning people as witches because they had different beliefs?
When we were keeping blacks as slaves?
When we imprisoned people because they had different political opinions than our "leaders"?
When we only allowed men to vote and not women?
When you were not allowed to go out on a date with a person of the opposite sex without someone else coming along?

There is no such thing as morality....one mans morals is another mans oppression. Morality is subjective, not objective. Morality evolves, just as society does.

All this stuff about , TV and sex...you know what, loads of teenagers were having sex and back street abortions in the 50s and 60s and you did not see it on TV then. How about blaming the Internet?

People love to blame someone or something else for their woes, rather than taking personal responsinility for themselves and their actions. Too many people expect society to raise their kids, rather than do it themselves. The actions of our our children are purely a reflection on the parents and the amount of involvement and their relationships with them.

 

[aztech]

ABikerSailor, agree 100% with that.