The conventional wisdom of Jeb being too moderate to be nominated

bendog

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May be false conventional wisdom. Personally, I didn't put any stock in the 2008 election because W was so bad that even a guy named Barack Hussein Obama won after beating Hill in the primary largely on her vote for the Iraq War (she didn't actually vote to invade on the grounds W invaded, but she didn't have a profile in courage moment on the invasion either.) Further, McCain had the nomination because he stood in line for it, and pretty much sacrificed his manhood doing so.

Then in 2012, Romney did everything he could think of to alienate moderate republicans, and then the very right decried he didn't run right enough, even though he took all the very very red states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/u...of-blue-state-republicans.html?abt=0002&abg=1
 

PratchettFan

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May be false conventional wisdom. Personally, I didn't put any stock in the 2008 election because W was so bad that even a guy named Barack Hussein Obama won after beating Hill in the primary largely on her vote for the Iraq War (she didn't actually vote to invade on the grounds W invaded, but she didn't have a profile in courage moment on the invasion either.) Further, McCain had the nomination because he stood in line for it, and pretty much sacrificed his manhood doing so.

Then in 2012, Romney did everything he could think of to alienate moderate republicans, and then the very right decried he didn't run right enough, even though he took all the very very red states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/u...of-blue-state-republicans.html?abt=0002&abg=1
It's still too early to tell. I personally don't think Clinton is a shoe-in, so it going to come down to who the candidates are. If the Republicans back off of the primaries and give more power to the convention, I think they can field someone who can win. However, if the candidate has to appeal to the far right of the party (which they do to win the primaries), they will either alienate the middle to make them vote dem or just stay home. In which case, we will have another dem for president pretty much no matter who the candidate is.
 

whitehall

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"McCain sacrificed his manhood"? Say what? Republicans are pretty tired of the Bush dynasty and the opportunities for hate speech on the left but if Bush gets the nomination he is a winner if Hillary runs. Any republican can beat Hillary. People have to recognize the desperate effort on the left to try to split the republican vote. Republicans are smarter than that but low information democrats still seem to be living the past. The dirty little secret is that when democrats become too moderate they kick them out of the party. Case in point, Joe Lieberman.
 
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bendog

bendog

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Since the nominee is elected soley by republicans, and has not lost a red state unless Slick was running, I'm mystified by this claim. You're complaining that RINOs are choosing the nominee. If true, then Rinos outnumber the very right in the gop.
 
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bendog

bendog

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May be false conventional wisdom. Personally, I didn't put any stock in the 2008 election because W was so bad that even a guy named Barack Hussein Obama won after beating Hill in the primary largely on her vote for the Iraq War (she didn't actually vote to invade on the grounds W invaded, but she didn't have a profile in courage moment on the invasion either.) Further, McCain had the nomination because he stood in line for it, and pretty much sacrificed his manhood doing so.

Then in 2012, Romney did everything he could think of to alienate moderate republicans, and then the very right decried he didn't run right enough, even though he took all the very very red states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/u...of-blue-state-republicans.html?abt=0002&abg=1
It's still too early to tell. I personally don't think Clinton is a shoe-in, so it going to come down to who the candidates are. If the Republicans back off of the primaries and give more power to the convention, I think they can field someone who can win. However, if the candidate has to appeal to the far right of the party (which they do to win the primaries), they will either alienate the middle to make them vote dem or just stay home. In which case, we will have another dem for president pretty much no matter who the candidate is.
Exactly. If the gop has to nominate a candidate who panders to the tea party, or those who want to end govt sponsored mammograms, cut education, and do vague and incomprehensible things to other entitlements while not touching old white people, then they cannot win a national election. But, my question is whether a candidate can be nominated while supporting immigration reform and common core? The link appears to support that moderate gop primary voters in blue states comprise at least 40% of primary voters. Can he get 15% of the rest?
 

PratchettFan

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May be false conventional wisdom. Personally, I didn't put any stock in the 2008 election because W was so bad that even a guy named Barack Hussein Obama won after beating Hill in the primary largely on her vote for the Iraq War (she didn't actually vote to invade on the grounds W invaded, but she didn't have a profile in courage moment on the invasion either.) Further, McCain had the nomination because he stood in line for it, and pretty much sacrificed his manhood doing so.

Then in 2012, Romney did everything he could think of to alienate moderate republicans, and then the very right decried he didn't run right enough, even though he took all the very very red states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/u...of-blue-state-republicans.html?abt=0002&abg=1
It's still too early to tell. I personally don't think Clinton is a shoe-in, so it going to come down to who the candidates are. If the Republicans back off of the primaries and give more power to the convention, I think they can field someone who can win. However, if the candidate has to appeal to the far right of the party (which they do to win the primaries), they will either alienate the middle to make them vote dem or just stay home. In which case, we will have another dem for president pretty much no matter who the candidate is.
Exactly. If the gop has to nominate a candidate who panders to the tea party, or those who want to end govt sponsored mammograms, cut education, and do vague and incomprehensible things to other entitlements while not touching old white people, then they cannot win a national election. But, my question is whether a candidate can be nominated while supporting immigration reform and common core? The link appears to support that moderate gop primary voters in blue states comprise at least 40% of primary voters. Can he get 15% of the rest?
I strongly suspect that with the current primary system, he can't get nominated. I wish I were wrong about that, but I don't think so. It would take a moderate candidate with an extraordinary persona to do it, and I just don't see anyone like that in the pack.
 

Siete

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the clueless RW is so busy bashing Obama, and bashing each other they've become pointless in elections ... a name on a ballot NOT to vote for.
 

jwoodie

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This RINO business is a little overdone, especially regarding Presidential candidates. Unless one is willing to ignore Constitutional limitations ( a la Obama), a President's ability to enact a conservative agenda depends on the composition of Congress. I would rather have a "moderate" President with a conservative Congress than a conservative President with a liberal Congress. 2016 may be the Republicans' last chance to enact any meaningful reforms.
 

PratchettFan

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This RINO business is a little overdone, especially regarding Presidential candidates. Unless one is willing to ignore Constitutional limitations ( a la Obama), a President's ability to enact a conservative agenda depends on the composition of Congress. I would rather have a "moderate" President with a conservative Congress than a conservative President with a liberal Congress. 2016 may be the Republicans' last chance to enact any meaningful reforms.
Obama does not and has not ignored the Constitution. He hasn't done anything prior presidents have not done.

But I agree the RINO business is overdone. Personally, I can deal with either a conservative or liberal Congress and likewise Executive. The difference in philosophies is not what is hurting us. Hell, the philosophies aren't really that far apart. What I would like is a Congress and Executive that act as if they were over the age of 14. I'd like leaders who were more concerned with working together than just constantly campaigning to keep the job they won't do.
 
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bendog

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This RINO business is a little overdone, especially regarding Presidential candidates. Unless one is willing to ignore Constitutional limitations ( a la Obama), a President's ability to enact a conservative agenda depends on the composition of Congress. I would rather have a "moderate" President with a conservative Congress than a conservative President with a liberal Congress. 2016 may be the Republicans' last chance to enact any meaningful reforms.
Obama does not and has not ignored the Constitution. He hasn't done anything prior presidents have not done.

But I agree the RINO business is overdone. Personally, I can deal with either a conservative or liberal Congress and likewise Executive. The difference in philosophies is not what is hurting us. Hell, the philosophies aren't really that far apart. What I would like is a Congress and Executive that act as if they were over the age of 14. I'd like leaders who were more concerned with working together than just constantly campaigning to keep the job they won't do.
Well, the only folks not in favor of finding compromise are those on the very right. As the link in the OP shows, most gop voters in blue states favor compromise. But, the gop voters in very red states have concluded that compromise is as harmful as outright losing. I think there are reasons for that: we compromise and the debt gets bigger, W actually embraced elective war for nationbuilding which was last tried by LBJ, and older whites are not comfortable with changing demographics and a group of voters that favor govt action besides making sure their soc sec and medicare dollars keep coming. (and that's not calling them racist so much as being old folks who don't like change)
 

Flash

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Jeb is much too Liberal and willing to compromise with the Liberals to ever earn the vote of conservatives.

However, he was a competent administrator when he was Governor of Florida. Thank goodness he was in charge the year Florida had four back to back hurricanes. If we would have had Democrat leadership like Louisiana had with Katrina then we would still be hurting from the damage.
 

BluesLegend

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Jeb Bush may get nominated but he will lose big in the general to just about any candidate. I'm sorry but the "Bush" brand is both over exposed and damaged and there is a strong track record of moderate GOP candidates getting their asses kicked even when running against a dumb ass like Obama who had zero, zero experience at anything that would qualify someone to be president. Bush = a 2016 win for Democrats.
 

PratchettFan

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Jeb Bush may get nominated but he will lose big in the general to just about any candidate. I'm sorry but the "Bush" brand is both over exposed and damaged and there is a strong track record of moderate GOP candidates getting their asses kicked even when running against a dumb ass like Obama who had zero, zero experience at anything that would qualify someone to be president. Bush = a 2016 win for Democrats.
I'm not sure about that, but let's accept it. Who do you think would be a win for the Republicans?
 

BluesLegend

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Jeb Bush may get nominated but he will lose big in the general to just about any candidate. I'm sorry but the "Bush" brand is both over exposed and damaged and there is a strong track record of moderate GOP candidates getting their asses kicked even when running against a dumb ass like Obama who had zero, zero experience at anything that would qualify someone to be president. Bush = a 2016 win for Democrats.
I'm not sure about that, but let's accept it. Who do you think would be a win for the Republicans?
I'm not prepared to point to any other candidate and say that person can win, but I'm quite confident Bush will lose its a virtual certainty. This country is not ready for another Bush in the White House AND the lying low life scum MSM will be in full on attack mode trying to paint Jeb as another 4 years of his brother. He's too vulnerable in that respect. Forget the Dem candidate its the damn MSM the GOP has to run against and Jeb brings with him too much baggage and ammo for those MSM slimes.
 

jwoodie

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Well, the only folks not in favor of finding compromise are those on the very right.
So the only way to redeem themselves is to wholeheartedly support Obamacare and a disastrous foreign policy?
 

PratchettFan

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Jeb Bush may get nominated but he will lose big in the general to just about any candidate. I'm sorry but the "Bush" brand is both over exposed and damaged and there is a strong track record of moderate GOP candidates getting their asses kicked even when running against a dumb ass like Obama who had zero, zero experience at anything that would qualify someone to be president. Bush = a 2016 win for Democrats.
I'm not sure about that, but let's accept it. Who do you think would be a win for the Republicans?
I'm not prepared to point to any other candidate and say that person can win, but I'm quite confident Bush will lose its a virtual certainty. This country is not ready for another Bush in the White House AND the lying low life scum MSM will be in full on attack mode trying to paint Jeb as another 4 years of his brother. He's too vulnerable in that respect. Forget the Dem candidate its the damn MSM the GOP has to run against and Jeb brings with him too much baggage and ammo for those MSM slimes.
MSM?
 

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