The Confederate Flag, You can't get more unclean

[Psychoblues]

I live in the South. Born and raised here in fact. Another hint, I reside in the Great and Glorious State Of Mississippi. I've heard every argument for and against the display of the "Confederate Flag" that anyone could possibly hear. We still have candidates, or fools (whichever you might call them) that run for public office, including our Governorship, that run on the single issue of the public display of the "Confederate Flag."

I've never met a single proponent of the public display of the "Confederate Flag" that didn't also reveal themself (in private conversation, of course) to be blatantly racist. And when I say "racist" I am not just talking about black or colored folk. These people have the Irish in mind as well. Unless, of course, they themselves tend to claim some Irish ancestry. It's a slavery issue, folks. An economic advantage over the enslaved or the de facto enslaved. That's it and that's all there is to it. There is an ignorance issue as well. But I won't bore you with that in this attempt at dialogue with seemingly educated Americans that should know better.

Check this conversation out:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22478

The "Confederate Flag" and all it represented was defeated many years ago by free-thinking and intelligent American citizens, including many of my kind, Southerners. The display of it offends those of us that understand it. The defeat alone precludes it's present day display, unless, of couse, for historical purposes only.

When I see a "Confederate Flag" I realize that the person displaying it is not cognizant of history, etiguette, or respectful of American values.

Psychoblues

 

[nosarcasm]

Anybody can choose their flag. If somebody wants a Swastika flag
so be it, Confederate Flag etc...

Those who fly em are fools in my view. And both types of flags can be found
here in Idaho. I still drink beer with em. Their choice. But the explanation
I have head about it were between funny and ridicilous.

America's democracy is good enough to allow people flying flags that
some dislike.

 

[Psychoblues]

Anybody can choose their flag. If somebody wants a Swastika flag
so be it, Confederate Flag etc...

Those who fly em are fools in my view. And both types of flags can be found
here in Idaho. I still drink beer with em. Their choice. But the explanation
I have head about it were between funny and ridicilous.

America's democracy is good enough to allow people flying flags that
some dislike.

That's the American Way. I can dig your sentiments and like you, I drink with them. But I do take notes and I do have opinions and I do agree to disagree and remain on friendly terms from time to time.

Thanks for an honest opinion, nosarcasm.

Psychoblues

 

[gaffer]

The confederate flag was highjacked long ago my racists and hate mongers. It was a symbol of rebelion and states rights in its original intent. It represented a confederation of states that were standing up against a federal government. Its a piece of American history. A very important piece.
Unfortunately it became a symbol of racism instead of its original design of a flag of independence.

The confederate flag should not be banned it should be displayed at proper functions just like anything else of historical value. Not flaunted as a symbol of hate. Its a ploy used for centuries, take something everyone recognizes and and use it as a symbol of your cause.

If you haven't noticed the hate mongers of the KKK use another symbol as well. A Cross.

 

[Psychoblues]

The confederate flag was highjacked long ago my racists and hate mongers. It was a symbol of rebelion and states rights in its original intent. It represented a confederation of states that were standing up against a federal government. Its a piece of American history. A very important piece.
Unfortunately it became a symbol of racism instead of its original design of a flag of independence.

The confederate flag should not be banned it should be displayed at proper functions just like anything else of historical value. Not flaunted as a symbol of hate. Its a ploy used for centuries, take something everyone recognizes and and use it as a symbol of your cause.

If you haven't noticed the hate mongers of the KKK use another symbol as well. A Cross.

Yo, gaffer, I'll bite. So what was the underlying insistence for "independence"? Wasn't it an insistence on the propagation of SLAVERY? Otherwise, there were no detriments to national unity, or were there? Please educate me?

Thanks for the reference to the "Cross". I still posess a KKKK (Knights of the KuKlux Klan) flag that is mostly covered side to side and top to bottom with a "Cross". I guess the implication being that it's not just a a racial organization but a Christian one as well? What do you think?

Psychoblues

 

[Merlin]

I live in the South. Born and raised here in fact. Another hint, I reside in the Great and Glorious State Of Mississippi. I've heard every argument for and against the display of the "Confederate Flag" that anyone could possibly hear. We still have candidates, or fools (whichever you might call them) that run for public office, including our Governorship, that run on the single issue of the public display of the "Confederate Flag."

I've never met a single proponent of the public display of the "Confederate Flag" that didn't also reveal themself (in private conversation, of course) to be blatantly racist. And when I say "racist" I am not just talking about black or colored folk. These people have the Irish in mind as well. Unless, of course, they themselves tend to claim some Irish ancestry. It's a slavery issue, folks. An economic advantage over the enslaved or the de facto enslaved. That's it and that's all there is to it. There is an ignorance issue as well. But I won't bore you with that in this attempt at dialogue with seemingly educated Americans that should know better.

Check this conversation out:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22478

The "Confederate Flag" and all it represented was defeated many years ago by free-thinking and intelligent American citizens, including many of my kind, Southerners. The display of it offends those of us that understand it. The defeat alone precludes it's present day display, unless, of couse, for historical purposes only.

When I see a "Confederate Flag" I realize that the person displaying it is not cognizant of history, etiguette, or respectful of American values.

Psychoblues

Psychoblues, your statement may show one of the reasons that Mississippi has one of the lowest educational levels in the United States. Read gaffer's response and then study up on exactly what the Confederate Flag stood for. Ignorance issue? Yes, it is very ignorant of you to post a statement like you did before you know what you are posting about. To your credit though, you are right about the racist part, and it is in every corner of the United States. Having black friends and family members, I see hate from both sides every day. White flight from the inner cities is mostly to get away from blacks. The Confederate Flag was a secession symbol until the middle of the 20th century until some hate mongers figured out how to stir up trouble with it. Yes, I have a Confederate Flag and I'm proud of it and I am not ashamed to have it and/or display it. It will never be flown or stored in my closet above my United States Flag though. I have a post in your link that you may want to read also.

 

[gaffer]

Yo, gaffer, I'll bite. So what was the underlying insistence for "independence"? Wasn't it an insistence on the propagation of SLAVERY? Otherwise, there were no detriments to national unity, or were there? Please educate me?

Thanks for the reference to the "Cross". I still posess a KKKK (Knights of the KuKlux Klan) flag that is mostly covered side to side and top to bottom with a "Cross". I guess the implication being that it's not just a a racial organization but a Christian one as well? What do you think?

Psychoblues

The southern states seceded from the union on the basis of states rights. The northern industrial states were trying to impose their will on the rural south. The abolisment of slaver was one of many factors of that time. A very important factor as it would have bankrupt the south. It wasn't high moral values that led to the civil war as much as economic reasons. The southern states wanted the right to chose how they would run things and whether they would have slavery and their way of life continue without interferrence from the north.
What the federal governmet learned from the civil war was that you control the states by controling the purse strings.

The kkk uses christianty to justify its hate mongering. There's nothing christian about them. They want to appear to be a christian organization. And such tactics are used to impress the gulable and ignorant fundimentalists amoung them. They use the confederate flag in the same way. Its something to intimidate with and rally behind.

 

[freeandfun1]

The confederate flag was highjacked long ago my racists and hate mongers. It was a symbol of rebelion and states rights in its original intent. It represented a confederation of states that were standing up against a federal government. Its a piece of American history. A very important piece.
Unfortunately it became a symbol of racism instead of its original design of a flag of independence.

I totally agree. The Confederate flag, in my opinion, has just as much historical significance as the "Don't Tread on Me" flags of the early days of the development of our Republic. Just because liberals claim it is a symbol of racism, that does not mean it is.

When I was in the Army and we were in Saudi Arabia in 1990, our deuce and a half driver had a Confederate flag hanging in the window of his truck. Our 1SG, who was black, never had a problem with it. He told some other black soldiers one day what it really meant... it was a symbol of rebellion and he knew that the driver wasn't racist, just a rebel. The left has and is trying like hell to change the meaning and why they are doing that I am really not sure.

 

[gaffer]

I totally agree. The Confederate flag, in my opinion, has just as much historical significance as the "Don't Tread on Me" flags of the early days of the development of our Republic. Just because liberals claim it is a symbol of racism, that does not mean it is.

When I was in the Army and we were in Saudi Arabia in 1990, our deuce and a half driver had a Confederate flag hanging in the window of his truck. Our 1SG, who was black, never had a problem with it. He told some other black soldiers one day what it really meant... it was a symbol of rebellion and he knew that the driver wasn't racist, just a rebel. The left has and is trying like hell to change the meaning and why they are doing that I am really not sure.

Like the kkk they see it as a means to justify their own hate mongering. Its used today for everything except what it actually stood for.

 

[William Joyce]

Slavery was a terrible thing: bad for blacks, bad for whites. But I am pro-white; I believe whites have the right to direct their own destiny on this Earth without interference from Jewish warmongers, black criminals and Mexican invaders. Call that "racist" if you want --- I just call it pride, decency and common sense. What business is it of yours? If I want to live with white people, that's my choice and my business. The diversity Nazis are the people who want to force racial segregation on everyone and give us this ridiculous Big Brother crap about how all the races are equal and getting along fine. But they're not. Races are different, and not just their skin colors --- their DNA is different, as science is now demonstrating. So arguing that races are equal is starting to look like arguments that the planet is flat.

 

[-Cp]

Slavery was a terrible thing: bad for blacks, bad for whites.

What do you mean was? Slavery still goes on today in Africa.....

 

[Annie]

Slavery was a terrible thing: bad for blacks, bad for whites. But I am pro-white; I believe whites have the right to direct their own destiny on this Earth without interference from Jewish warmongers, black criminals and Mexican invaders. Call that "racist" if you want --- I just call it pride, decency and common sense. What business is it of yours? If I want to live with white people, that's my choice and my business. The diversity Nazis are the people who want to force racial segregation on everyone and give us this ridiculous Big Brother crap about how all the races are equal and getting along fine. But they're not. Races are different, and not just their skin colors --- their DNA is different, as science is now demonstrating. So arguing that races are equal is starting to look like arguments that the planet is flat.

WJ, we are both Caucasians, I am a descendent of Western Europe. Our DNA is different, on many levels.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

WJ, we are both Caucasians, I am a descendent of Western Europe. Our DNA is different, on many levels.

I was trying to find the right way to say this and you provided it for me. WJ, science has shown that there are many, many black, hispanic, japanese, etc. people with whom you share a closer DNA match than you do with Kathianne. The average differences between races is miniscule when compared to the range of differences within one race.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

The southern states seceded from the union on the basis of states rights. The northern industrial states were trying to impose their will on the rural south. The abolisment of slaver was one of many factors of that time. A very important factor as it would have bankrupt the south. It wasn't high moral values that led to the civil war as much as economic reasons. The southern states wanted the right to chose how they would run things and whether they would have slavery and their way of life continue without interferrence from the north.
What the federal governmet learned from the civil war was that you control the states by controling the purse strings.

I think the problem a lot of people are having with this is they are trying to take a 19th Century event and put 21st Century logic to it. It just doesn't work.

The kkk uses christianty to justify its hate mongering. There's nothing christian about them. They want to appear to be a christian organization. And such tactics are used to impress the gulable and ignorant fundimentalists amoung them. They use the confederate flag in the same way. Its something to intimidate with and rally behind.

Exactly. Just as terrorists today are using the Muslim religion to justify mass murder.

 

[GotZoom]

The referenced thread in Psycho's first post was one I started. I am not going to repeat everything that we all have said.

I will say this.

If the KKK chose to use a flag with Hello Kitty on it, people would still be proudly flying the Confederate Flag today and Sanrio would be doing all kind of damage control.

 

[William Joyce]

I was trying to find the right way to say this and you provided it for me. WJ, science has shown that there are many, many black, hispanic, japanese, etc. people with whom you share a closer DNA match than you do with Kathianne. The average differences between races is miniscule when compared to the range of differences within one race.

This has been addressed. For science that goes beyond what your liberal teacher told you in grade school, please read:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/sim-explorer/explore-items/-/0813340861/0/101/1/none/purchase/ref%3Dpd%5Fsxp%5Fr0/103-6681437-0444609[/ame]

...Sarich, a Berkeley emeritus anthropologist, and Miele, an editor of Skeptic magazine, cannot resist calling the current view that "race does not exist" a "PC dogma."...

Indeed.

The argument that "all humans share DNA" is a weak one, indeed. We share 99 percent of our DNA with chimpanzees. We even share DNA with bumblebees. This does not mean that equal rights for bumblebees would be a good idea. The idea is that very slight differences can make a world a difference. The clearest and most observed DNA differences in humans are, sorry to announce to liberaldom, RACIAL. But you don't need microscopes to see this. Just see how humans behave, where they live, and so on.

 

[dilloduck]

This has been addressed. For science that goes beyond what your liberal teacher told you in grade school, please read:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=pd_sxp_r0/103-6681437-0444609&tag=ff0d01-20

...Sarich, a Berkeley emeritus anthropologist, and Miele, an editor of Skeptic magazine, cannot resist calling the current view that "race does not exist" a "PC dogma."...

Indeed.

The argument that "all humans share DNA" is a weak one, indeed. We share 99 percent of our DNA with chimpanzees. We even share DNA with bumblebees. This does not mean that equal rights for bumblebees would be a good idea. The idea is that very slight differences can make a world a difference. The clearest and most observed DNA differences in humans are, sorry to announce to liberaldom, RACIAL. But you don't need microscopes to see this. Just see how humans behave, where they live, and so on.

Cmon dude--you know poverty and slavery caused it all !!

 

[GotZoom]

The argument that "all humans share DNA" is a weak one, indeed. We share 99 percent of our DNA with chimpanzees. We even share DNA with bumblebees. This does not mean that equal rights for bumblebees would be a good idea. The idea is that very slight differences can make a world a difference. The clearest and most observed DNA differences in humans are, sorry to announce to liberaldom, RACIAL. But you don't need microscopes to see this. Just see how humans behave, where they live, and so on.

For those of us who believe in God and Creation, "all humans share DNA" is definitely not a weak one.

 

[William Joyce]

For those of us who believe in God and Creation, "all humans share DNA" is definitely not a weak one.

So how does God's creation of life preclude difference, if I might ask? God made a huge universe practically defined by difference --- fascinating, beautiful and terrible all at once in its "true diversity." Men and women are different (thank God! --- though I suppose the liberals will try getting rid of that one some day), animals are different, flora and fauna, the races, the places, you name it.

The diversity Nazis who want to destroy true diversity, it would seem, are the ones truly contemptuous of God's creation. They want us all to be sexless, raceless brown robots, same height, same weight, same hair color, same eye color, same gray clothes, no variety, no difference, no nothing. Isn't that what's really spitting in God's face?

If you really support "diversity," well, you should support the right of the races to stay separate!

 

[dilloduck]

So how does God's creation of life preclude difference, if I might ask? God made a huge universe practically defined by difference --- fascinating, beautiful and terrible all at once in its "true diversity." Men and women are different (thank God! --- though I suppose the liberals will try getting rid of that one some day), animals are different, flora and fauna, the races, the places, you name it.

The diversity Nazis who want to destroy true diversity, it would seem, are the ones truly contemptuous of God's creation. They want us all to be sexless, raceless brown robots, same height, same weight, same hair color, same eye color, same gray clothes, no variety, no difference, no nothing. Isn't that what's really spitting in God's face?

If you really support "diversity," well, you should support the right of the races to stay separate!

Stop--you're making too much sense.