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The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968)

Tommy Tainant

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A cracking film.
I saw it when I was young and it went over my head. But it is really a great piece of work. it tells the story of the ill fated charge and places it in the context of the shambolic british army at the time.
It was 1850 but the military had not moved on since Waterloo 40 years earlier.

As a film it is satirical in style and not like the usual mindless empire dogma we are usually served up. It is closer to Mash and other counter culture films in style .

The film is dominated by Trevor Howaed as Cardigan. An absolute shit of a man. His scenes with Harry Andrews as Lucan are a delight.

My favourite scene is the bickering post mortem when the supreme commanders compete to pass the buck on responsibility. Like a group of middle management arse lickers.

If you are interested in the story then this book is also worth a look.

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/ter...CyIL8N5zNvC6TLdXEiRoCu7AQAvD_BwE#GOR001580467
 

1srelluc

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Howard was discharged from the British Army in 1943 for mental instability and having a "psychopathic personality".

Damn fine actor though.

 

Seymour Flops

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A cracking film.
I saw it when I was young and it went over my head. But it is really a great piece of work. it tells the story of the ill fated charge and places it in the context of the shambolic british army at the time.
It was 1850 but the military had not moved on since Waterloo 40 years earlier.

As a film it is satirical in style and not like the usual mindless empire dogma we are usually served up. It is closer to Mash and other counter culture films in style .

The film is dominated by Trevor Howaed as Cardigan. An absolute shit of a man. His scenes with Harry Andrews as Lucan are a delight.

My favourite scene is the bickering post mortem when the supreme commanders compete to pass the buck on responsibility. Like a group of middle management arse lickers.

If you are interested in the story then this book is also worth a look.

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/ter...CyIL8N5zNvC6TLdXEiRoCu7AQAvD_BwE#GOR001580467
I am interested in stories of British military incompetence and failure. Luckily, there is an abundance of them. The British have always had a fine Navy, but their frequent humiliations in ground combat make them a laughing stock. From their defeat by lightly clad and lightly armed colonials, to being forced out of the middle east by tinpot dictators, to the stunning defeat at Rorke's Drift by Zulu's armed with nothing but spears, fighting on foot outside of Europe has never worked out well for the hapless "Royal Army."

My theory is that each ship is it's own little monarchy, with one leader and hundreds of servile followers, which is a comfortable dynamic for a typical Brit. In a land battle, there is often confusion, separation from leadership, breakdowns in communication, and possibilities that a few cowards might bring down a whole unit. Brits are raised to be followers, and often land battle requires leadership by low-ranking soldiers whose only qualification for command is their willingness to take it. Americans love that kind of thing, Brits not so much. Before following the orders of an equal ranked soldiers, there would be a lengthy discussion of "pedigree."

One of our great military minds would exort his men, not to follow orders no matter what, but to "improvise, adapt, overcome!" American officers lead from the front, knowing that if they are killed their men will only be driven to fight harder. When Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas night, no doubt the Brits said to their hired guns, "It's Christmas and there is freezing rain and sleet. No need to post guards, surely" never once thinking to the obvious next level, 'but that's exactly when those damnably clever Yanks might strike.'
 
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Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant

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I am interested in stories of British military incompetence and failure. Luckily, there is an abundance of them. The British have always had a fine Navy, but their frequent humiliations in ground combat make them a laughing stock. From their defeat by lightly clad and lightly armed colonials, to being forced out of the middle east by tinpot dictators, to the stunning defeat at Rorke's Drift by Zulu's armed with nothing but spears, fighting on foot outside of Europe has never worked out well for the hapless "Royal Army."

My theory is that each ship is it's own little monarchy, with one leader and hundreds of servile followers, which is a comfortable dynamic for a typical Brit. In a land battle, there is often confusion, separation from leadership, breakdowns in communication, and possibilities that a few cowards might bring down a whole unit. Brits are raised to be followers, and often land battle requires leadership by low-ranking soldiers whose only qualification for command is their willingness to take it. Americans love that kind of thing, Brits not so much. Before following the orders of an equal ranked soldiers, there would be a lengthy discussion of "pedigree."

One of our great military minds would exort his men, not to follow orders no matter what, but to "improvise, adapt, overcome!" American officers lead from the front, knowing that if they are killed their men will only be driven to fight harder. When Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas night, no doubt the Brits said to their hired guns, "It's Christmas and there is freezing rain and sleet. No need to post guards, surely" never once thinking to the obvious next level, 'but that's exactly when those damnably clever Yanks might strike.'
Rorkes Drift was a win. The defeat was the day before.
 

Seymour Flops

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Discuss the film you stupid cu.nt.
Fine.

The film was about a failed british attack led by a guy named "Lord Cardigan." Sounds like a joke, but that was his name. The major commander of all the cavalry was an Earl. The third Earl of Lucan. As such, he was very well suited to leasing land to tennant farmers, but military operations weren't taught at the debutante balls he attended.

The Light Brigade were supposed to charge at a group trying to capture some abandoned cannons. It would have been an easy win for a well-led force since the fast moving charge by light cavalry would force the would-be gun repatriators to either abandon the cannons themselves, or be run over and killed in place.

But, due to some Captain's inability to point to the right target of the attack (I wish I were kidding), the Light Brigade charged instead an entrenched and well dialed in battery of Russian artillery.

It was a slaughter.

The Russians must have initially thought that the attack was a feint or that the Brits were inexplicably using light cavalry for cannon fodder, instead of the untrained youths they usually sacrificed for that purpose. I'm sure the Russians were on high alert after slaughtering the Cardigan men for the second shoe to drop.

Funny that you brought this whole thing up. I often wear a hoodie at my job when the inside temperature is constantly in flux. I was just wondering whether I was old enough to start wearing cardigans non-ironically.
 
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Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant

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Fine.

The film was about a failed british attack led by a guy named "Lord Cardigan." Sounds like a joke, but that was his name. The major commander of all the cavalry was an Earl. The third Earl of Lucan. As such, he was very well suited to leasing land to tennant farmers, but military operations weren't taught at the debutante balls he attended.

The Light Brigade were supposed to charge at a group trying to capture some abandoned cannons. It would have been an easy win for a well-led force since the fast moving charge by light cavalry would force the would-be gun repatriators to either abandon the cannons themselves, or be run over and killed in place.

But, due to some Captain's inability to point to the right target of the attack (I wish I were kidding), the Light Brigade charged instead an entrenched and well dialed in battery of Russian artillery.

It was a slaughter.

The Russians must have initially thought that the attack was a feint or that the Brits were inexplicably using light cavalry for cannon fodder, instead of the untrained youths they usually sacrificed for that purpose. I'm sure they were on high alert after slaughtering the Cardigan men for the second shoe to drop.

Funny that you brought this whole thing up. I often wear a hoodie at my job when the inside temperature is constantly in flux. I was just wondering whether I was old enough to start wearing cardigans non-ironically.
Close enough. Cardigan is actually a place so Im not sure why you think it is funny.

Nolans role is disputed and there is no agreement on the actual cause other than confusion.. But the film version is as good as any.

The over riding issue was the disfunctional nature of the british army which was outdated and feudal.
 

Seymour Flops

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Close enough. Cardigan is actually a place so Im not sure why you think it is funny.
I just thought it was coincidental that it was only last thursday that I first started considering wearing a cardigan.
Nolans role is disputed and there is no agreement on the actual cause other than confusion.. But the film version is as good as any.

The over riding issue was the disfunctional nature of the british army which was outdated and feudal.
Yes, I thought that was what I said, but you got cheesed off about it.
 
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Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant

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I just thought it was coincidental that it was only last thursday that I first started considering wearing a cardigan.

Yes, I thought that was what I said, but you got cheesed off about it.
Not cheesed off, I agree that it was a shambles. But it wasnt necessarily Nolans fault.

In an earlier post you mentioned the defeat at Isandlwhana. There is an agument that Rorkes Drift was blown up to hide that disaster.

You might say that Fllorence Nightingale and the Charge were blown up to hide the overall disaster of the Ctimea.

This enables imperialists to bask in the glow of empire. Its a loda of bollox. Ordinary people were slaughtered for no reason.


Much like the American secession 20 years later.

A few years ago I was in the Shropshire records office and an obit in the local paper from 1890 caught my eye. It was an old guy who died in the local poor house. He was a survivor of the charge and yet he died in poverty. The working class is always used by the elite to fight theiir wars.
 

Flash

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In that movie horsees were injured and killed during the filming.

It was because of that movie that made Hollywood adopt standards towards cruelty to animals.
 

Seymour Flops

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Not cheesed off, I agree that it was a shambles. But it wasnt necessarily Nolans fault.

In an earlier post you mentioned the defeat at Isandlwhana. There is an agument that Rorkes Drift was blown up to hide that disaster.

You might say that Fllorence Nightingale and the Charge were blown up to hide the overall disaster of the Ctimea.

This enables imperialists to bask in the glow of empire. Its a loda of bollox. Ordinary people were slaughtered for no reason.


Much like the American secession 20 years later.

A few years ago I was in the Shropshire records office and an obit in the local paper from 1890 caught my eye. It was an old guy who died in the local poor house. He was a survivor of the charge and yet he died in poverty. The working class is always used by the elite to fight theiir wars.
Yes, as Breaker Morant said in the movie of the same name: "This is what comes of empire building."

For what it's worth, the War of Succession was one of the first examples of American imperialism.

I see that the movie is available on Amazon Prime. I'll watch it, thanks.
 
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Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant

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Yes, as Breaker Morant said in the movie of the same name: "This is what comes of empire building."

For what it's worth, the War of Succession was one of the first examples of American imperialism.

I see that the movie is available on Amazon Prime. I'll watch it, thanks.
Breaker Morant is a brilliant film. The Boer war was a dirty business. I think it might be on Youtube.
 

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Close enough. Cardigan is actually a place so Im not sure why you think it is funny.

Nolans role is disputed and there is no agreement on the actual cause other than confusion.. But the film version is as good as any.

The over riding issue was the disfunctional nature of the british army which was outdated and feudal.
After watching this, I have to wonder how the British Empire lasted so long. The Calvary slowly walking straight into heavily fortified gun batteries is pure insanity.

The Charge of the Light Brigade​

BY ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON
I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

IV
Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

V
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

VI
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
 
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Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant

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After watching this, I have to wonder how the British Empire lasted so long. The Calvary slowly walking straight into heavily fortified gun batteries is pure insanity.

The Charge of the Light Brigade​

BY ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON
I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

IV
Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

V
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

VI
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
They had tp walk because the nags could not keep up the pace for the whole trip.
A lot of them collapsed on the retreat because they were blown. The film didnt show it but there was a huge loss of life on the retreat. The Russians had snipers all along the valley.
 

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