The best generals of the 20th century

[Silver Cat]

Curtis Emerson LeMay. He was an effective, nerveless and merciless war machine. Juggernaut.

 

[NoBueno]

I believe that few understood the operational art as well as Patton.

 

[whitehall]

There are two classes of American Generals in the 20th century. There are the grand strategists like MacArthur, Ike, Vandegrift and Halsey and then there are the combat Generals like Patton and Marines David M. Shoup and Lewis "Chesty" Puller.

 

[Ringo]

Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Konev, Vatutin, Chernyakhovsky and more.
We can cite the names of talented generals from all countries, who participated in the war on both sides.
But only the soviet generals proved themselves from all sides, able to defend and attack in the fight against a very strong enemy. History has not given US the opportunity to learn the talent of american generals in the same conditions, because they entered into battlefield to fight already a weakened enemy, with his often secondary units, And by the way, when the germans in the Ardennes managed to assemble their first-class units for a short time at that moment... you know how it went.
So whether you like it or not, but objectively, soviet generals will be on the list of proven most talented generals during the Second World War in the first place.

 

[rupol2000]

Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Konev, Vatutin, Chernyakhovsky and more.
We can cite the names of talented generals from all countries, who participated in the war on both sides.
But only the soviet generals proved themselves from all sides, able to defend and attack in the fight against a very strong enemy. History has not given US the opportunity to learn the talent of american generals in the same conditions, because they entered into battlefield to fight already a weakened enemy, with his often secondary units, And by the way, when the germans in the Ardennes managed to assemble their first-class units for a short time at that moment... you know how it went.
So whether you like it or not, but objectively, soviet generals will be on the list of proven most talented generals during the Second World War in the first place.

There is no objectivity here. Allegedly, Soviet generals fought with a strong enemy and the rest with a weak one. And under this one can write off all the failures, tragedies, like the Dubno tragedy, huge casualties and retreats in the first half of the war, and so on.
Objectively is something else: for the sake of political interests, Kaganovich and Stalin on the eve of the war destroyed the professional officer army of Tukhachevsky, where there really was a competent officer staff, and returned the "people's" army under the commissar's command. This is one of the main reasons for the failures of 1941-43 and it influenced Hitler's decision to attack. He saw this as a favorable situation for Germany. And this is another crime of bolsheviks.

 

[Ringo]

Kaganovich and Stalin on the eve of the war destroyed the professional officer army of Tukhachevsky, where there really was a competent officer staff, and returned the "people's" army under the commissar's command. This is one of the main reasons for the failures of 1941-43

This is not true. Tukhachevsky is not a military genius at all, it was he who was defeated in the war with Poland. This is # one .
# Two - 40 thousand commanders before the war, which anti-soviets like to talk about, are not "40 thousand, who was all shot." A significant part of them were simply dismissed due to age and health. 20 years after revolution and many of them went through WWI.
A significant number of the repressed were political commissars of the Civil War era and did not possess any military talents.
Some of the top officers turned out to be unreliable.
There were, of course, mistakes in this mass. Someone wrote denunciations and these denunciations were not always written in order to help their country, often it was done on the contrary, in order to harm. Many of those arrested were soon released and became famous during the war, like Rokossovsky and Meretskov.
As a result, Stalin, in the days of defeats, did not have a conspiracy among the generals, like Hitler, who did not "clean up" his generals before the war, and during the war it was already too late.
But do you know who won the war after all?
And most importantly, since 1939, the Red Army began the transition to a mass army, for which there simply were not enough trained officers. Too much had to be done in the decade before the war. A lot was done, but not everything, there was neither time nor energy for everything.

 

[rupol2000]

Tukhachevsky is not a military genius at all, it was he who was defeated in the war with Poland

He also lost the first phase of the war with Don. But his military talents, as a rule, were not denied even by the commissars. For a long time, the Bolsheviks did not have military specialists at all, and every officer who went over to their side was worth its weight in gold.
But here we are not talking about Tukhachevsky's military talents, but about the structure of the army. A professional army is always more effective, but it was destroyed for fear of losing power. They paid for it with great sacrifices at the beginning of the war.

 

[Ringo]

A professional army is always more effective, but it was destroyed for fear of losing power. They paid for it with great sacrifices at the beginning of the war.

The bolsheviks did not destroy the army. The army was finally destroyed by Order No. 1 of the Provisional bourgeois government, right after February revolution, which basically abolished discipline in the army. After this order, the disintegration of the army, which had not seen any sense in this war even before, intensified many times. The bolsheviks after taking power had to create a new army from scratch. By the way, half of the officers of the tsarist time went to serve in the Red Army.

 

[rupol2000]

The bolsheviks did not destroy the army. The army was finally destroyed by Order No. 1 of the Provisional bourgeois government, right after February revolution, which basically abolished discipline in the army. After this order, the disintegration of the army, which had not seen any sense in this war even before, intensified many times. The bolsheviks after taking power had to create a new army from scratch. By the way, half of the officers of the tsarist time went to serve in the Red Army.

do not play the fool, we are talking about the officer army of Tukhachevsky

 

[Ringo]

A professional army is always more effective, but it was destroyed for fear of losing power.

It wasn't destroyed, it won the war by defeating forces of Europe . Second, Hitler wasn't afraid of losing power and was almost blown up by his generals, when war turned sour. Compare it with USSR.

 

[rupol2000]

It wasn't destroyed, it won the war by defeating forces of Europe .

It was the commissar workers-peasants army, not the army of Tukhachevsky destroyed by Kaganovich, stop playing the fool.

 

[Ringo]

It was the commissar workers-peasants army, not the army of Tukhachevsky destroyed by Kaganovich, stop playing the fool.

Isn't it good, that "army of Tukhachevsky" was destroyed? Without it you may speak german now. Of course if you have enough aryan blood in you...

 

[rupol2000]

Apart from the political ones, there were also contradictions in matters of strategy. The officer corps in the 30s developed a model of "deep combat", while the Bolshevik commissars preferred the primitive tactics of a linear system, due to the fact that such units are easy to control and do not require military skills. This is another reason for the increased number of losses in 1941-43.

 

[rupol2000]

Isn't it good, that "army of Tukhachevsky" was destroyed?

No, because it led to increased losses.

 

[rupol2000]

And in the end, they still returned to the model of professional officer management in 1943.

 

[Mushroom]

Puller

To be fair, Chesty does not really belong on the list.

His most amazing and outstanding achievements came when he was a Lieutenant Colonel, then as a Colonel. In the Pacific War as a Battalion then later Regimental Commander. Then as a Regimental Commander in the early days of the Korean War.

However, once he got his start he lost his Regiment and became Assistant Division Commander. For three months, then he was rotated to take command of the Third Marine Division back in the US. And as outstanding as he was as a Colonel, he never fought as a General.

Unquestionably one of the best "Commanders", but he never got the chance to show what he could have done as a General in command of a Brigade sized unit or larger.

 

[harmonica]

Let's make a list, independent of political convictions, who in the 20th century proved to be a talented, outstanding military specialist. This must be argued why.

For now, I am presenting the candidacy of Ahmad Shah Massoud. He won all battles against the Soviet troops, although the forces and resources of the USSR were much greater. Even Soviet generals, his enemies recognized his military talents.
If someone understands the warrior's science, you can discuss a specific strategy and tactics, that would be great.

....Gen. OP Smith..Korean War..he made MacArthur/etc look like the idiot he was
....Chinese surrounded and greatly outnumbered [ 10-1 ] the Marines at the Chosin....a fighting retreat is one of the most difficult maneuvers......yet they came out with their wounded/vehicles and some of the dead.....AND decimated the Chinese Army so much, they were not available for the next Chinese Offensive
.....MacArthur and Almond, Smith's superiors, kept pushing Smith to race to the Yalu/etc.....[ which we know would've been catastrophic --because all the other units were given an ass whippin by doing so ] ...Smith knew better.......
..Smith had airfields built and supply caches ...he brought his division together ...and they came out together...he ''disobeyed'' Mac's and Almond's orders--thankfully
....etc

Close Call at Chosin

How the foresight and tactical brilliance of Marine Maj. Gen. O.P. Smith saved his division from annihilation in North Korea. One of the little-known

www.historynet.com

 

[harmonica]

Mattis
Patton
Rommel
McArthur
Yamamoto
Puller
Spruance
Zhukov

There's lots more but that's a decent start.

MAcArthur was a fk up......he messed up in the Philippines and MASSIVELY fkd up in Korea ......

 

[harmonica]

..Mac had typical Victory Disease and God Complex ..
..there were many indications and outright statements that the Chinese would get involved if the Allies cross the parallel ....but Mac thought airpower would stop them IF they did cross the border [which they already did!!!!! ]

15 Oct:
'''''' He said there was little or no chance of Chinese intervention.''''
they were already there!!!!

MiG Alley | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The American F-86 Sabres stopped the MiG-15s—and their Russian pilots—at the Yalu.

www.airforcemag.com

''''''MacArthur reassured to Truman that "if the Chinese tried to get down to Pyongyang there would be the greatest slaughter."'''''

https://www.sccollege.edu/Faculty/NRabii/History121Rabii/Documents/Lecture%20Notes/TheKoreanWar.pdf

 

[harmonica]

There are two classes of American Generals in the 20th century. There are the grand strategists like MacArthur, Ike, Vandegrift and Halsey and then there are the combat Generals like Patton and Marines David M. Shoup and Lewis "Chesty" Puller.

Mac was a fk up--see my previous post