The ‘battery fairy’ and other delusions in the demand to replace gasoline powered vehicles with electric cars and trucks

Where will all the power to charge these EV's come form?

Add in the mining for rare-earth minerals which is very environmentally unfriendly.

Plus the massive problem of used-up batteries.


...
But Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota Motors, the world’s largest (or second largest, depending on the year). and grandson of the automaker’s founder, has spoken out and called out fallacy of thinking that this is possible or desirable. [I must here disclose that I was a consultant for a Toyota company for several years, but that all my comments on the company here are based on publicly available information.]
According to this account in CarBuzz:
As the grandson of Toyota founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, the scion was raised surrounded by all aspects of the auto industry and his business acumen is second to none. So when he had some harsh words for electric vehicles at the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association end-of-year press conference last week, people took notice.

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO's disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they'll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. "The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse," he said. "The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, 'Let's get rid of all cars using gasoline,' do they understand this?"

Studies detailing the carbon emissions necessary to manufacture an electric vehicle reveal that on a net basis, there are more emissions for vehicle bought and used for its expected lifetime, than would be generated by buying and using a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle.
...​


Another fantastic reminder of the lengths virtue signaling goes.
On one hand, replacing the internal combustion engine with something else is past it's time. Granted.
But replacing it with a caustic, environmental destroying wall of batteries is not it.
The science is obvious. But of course, reality never once stood in the way of the left's devoted need to virtue signal.
In a state where my brother lives, there was a battery plant that poisoned the environment badly, and it was shut down years ago. Nothing has been built or opened up on the land since he says. Cancer was rampant in the area he also said.

The only way that I can imagine an electric system being a reality without the extensive contamination, is to produce a rechargable on board battery that can be recharged by the on board system as the motion of the vehicle allows for this process to happen. Otherwise the battery wouldn't have to be changed out for years, and all due to it's durability to withstand recharging up until the vehicle has past it's lifespan expectancy.

Would still have to have the plants that produce such a thing, but the volume or quantity of production would be limited or low in production because of the high quality, longevity, and value of the battery to be used in such a vehicle.
Dream on pal.
You're talking about 'perpetual motion' suggesting the energy created by a moving car could recharge a battery to provide energy enough to move the car.
Sir Isaac Newton might have something to tell you on that subject.
"Let's get rid of vehicles with fossil fuel engines and replace them with batteries which must use even more fossil fuel to manufacture electric batteries". Batteries which must be regularly replaced with other batteries.
It's no uncommon from long-haul big rigs to have diesel engines that power trucks for millions of miles. After a couple of million miles press out the liners and replace with new ones. Replace the bearings and put in a set of rebuilt injectors and you're good to go for another couple of million miles.
Try calculating the size and weight and cost to the environment of the batteries which would be needed to power a long-haul big rig moving 40 tons!
"Yeah but we can use trains instead!"
Really? What do you need to put the containers from China on when they need to be moved two hundred miles from where the last train stops, to get to your local Walmart?
 
Where will all the power to charge these EV's come form?

Add in the mining for rare-earth minerals which is very environmentally unfriendly.

Plus the massive problem of used-up batteries.


...
But Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota Motors, the world’s largest (or second largest, depending on the year). and grandson of the automaker’s founder, has spoken out and called out fallacy of thinking that this is possible or desirable. [I must here disclose that I was a consultant for a Toyota company for several years, but that all my comments on the company here are based on publicly available information.]
According to this account in CarBuzz:
As the grandson of Toyota founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, the scion was raised surrounded by all aspects of the auto industry and his business acumen is second to none. So when he had some harsh words for electric vehicles at the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association end-of-year press conference last week, people took notice.

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO's disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they'll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. "The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse," he said. "The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, 'Let's get rid of all cars using gasoline,' do they understand this?"

Studies detailing the carbon emissions necessary to manufacture an electric vehicle reveal that on a net basis, there are more emissions for vehicle bought and used for its expected lifetime, than would be generated by buying and using a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle.
...​


Another fantastic reminder of the lengths virtue signaling goes.
On one hand, replacing the internal combustion engine with something else is past it's time. Granted.
But replacing it with a caustic, environmental destroying wall of batteries is not it.
The science is obvious. But of course, reality never once stood in the way of the left's devoted need to virtue signal.
In a state where my brother lives, there was a battery plant that poisoned the environment badly, and it was shut down years ago. Nothing has been built or opened up on the land since he says. Cancer was rampant in the area he also said.

The only way that I can imagine an electric system being a reality without the extensive contamination, is to produce a rechargable on board battery that can be recharged by the on board system as the motion of the vehicle allows for this process to happen. Otherwise the battery wouldn't have to be changed out for years, and all due to it's durability to withstand recharging up until the vehicle has past it's lifespan expectancy.

Would still have to have the plants that produce such a thing, but the volume or quantity of production would be limited or low in production because of the high quality, longevity, and value of the battery to be used in such a vehicle.
Dream on pal.
You're talking about 'perpetual motion' suggesting the energy created by a moving car could recharge a battery to provide energy enough to move the car.
Sir Isaac Newton might have something to tell you on that subject.
"Let's get rid of vehicles with fossil fuel engines and replace them with batteries which must use even more fossil fuel to manufacture electric batteries". Batteries which must be regularly replaced with other batteries.
It's no uncommon from long-haul big rigs to have diesel engines that power trucks for millions of miles. After a couple of million miles press out the liners and replace with new ones. Replace the bearings and put in a set of rebuilt injectors and you're good to go for another couple of million miles.
Try calculating the size and weight and cost to the environment of the batteries which would be needed to power a long-haul big rig moving 40 tons!
"Yeah but we can use trains instead!"
Really? What do you need to put the containers from China on when they need to be moved two hundred miles from where the last train stops, to get to your local Walmart?
You realize most trains have been hybrid diesel/electric for decades, don't you?
 
Get with the future.
There's no future with your liberal bullshit, asshole. It's a parking ticket, they impound your gasoline-powerer vehicle, auction it off while you're still serving your jail sentence, better pay your electric bill, too, cuz' the good ol' boys at city hall are hard at work filing lien notices in court to foreclose on your home for a utility bill or an easement something like that.
Who do they auction your car to and what do they do with it?
 
Yes, we were rolling along on the ebike yesterday. The solar panels were only putting out 16W because of the haze. It would have been a good time to engage the mechanical recharging system, though we don’t have one yet. It’s nice to personally own the means to use the sun to recharge an ebike.
 
You realize most trains have been hybrid diesel/electric for decades, don't you?
I am not against new technology

but greenies pushing that technology before its time based on unreasonable fear is crazy
 
You realize most trains have been hybrid diesel/electric for decades, don't you?
I am not against new technology

but greenies pushing that technology before its time based on unreasonable fear is crazy
Expecting the elimination of current power sources before a suitable replacement is implemented is an unreasonable fear. Whoever told you that will happen is lying to you again.
 
Chevy going all electric by 2035, Ford investing 22 billion in electric vehicles. They wouldn't make those big investment if they didn't think the problems weren't mostly solved. This is the kind of progress that can be made when the Democrats contol the House, the Senate, the White House, and Pillows.
No they are doing it because they know the government will subsidize their losses. Batteries don’t work for cars, fuel cells might, but they are expensive. Batteries are expensive to build, take large amounts of materials that are horrible for the environment, create vast amount of pollution both during manufacture and disposal. Finally unless you are willing to dam every stream and river in North America AND build a bunch of nuclear power plants producing the electricity to charge them will create enormous amounts of greenhouse gasses.
 
Ev is not a magic bullet at all.

It still requires energy. Electricity has to be man made, it does not come from nature. Every single lightbulb, tv, phone charger, elevator, air conditioner, motor on earth all run on electricity made by man. And it requires a resource for man to make it. You have to use something to get it.

I bet the carbon output of a high efficiency engine will be less than the 30lb battery you'll have to replace every so often made out of plastics and metals mined from the ground.

Jesus Christ, I can't even afford to replace my wheel bearing in my car right now, let alone go buy a brand new car anyway.
 
Chevy going all electric by 2035, Ford investing 22 billion in electric vehicles. They wouldn't make those big investment if they didn't think the problems weren't mostly solved. This is the kind of progress that can be made when the Democrats contol the House, the Senate, the White House, and Pillows.
Lol, it sounds like you have faith in big government to make this happen, but you have no idea yourself as to where all the electricity will come from. Just so you know, big government doesn't know where it will come from either.

I doubt Ford and Chevy are investing all that money without being confident that a source of electricity will be available.
They don’t care. Even if the cars become paperweights, the auto companies still get paid.
 
Yes, we were rolling along on the ebike yesterday. The solar panels were only putting out 16W because of the haze. It would have been a good time to engage the mechanical recharging system, though we don’t have one yet. It’s nice to personally own the means to use the sun to recharge an ebike.
If only it were possible to carry 16 watts of solar charging on the bike itself where it would charge on the go. Unfortunately though, it would probably take more than an extra 16 watts to move such a rig around...
 
You people need to be a little more inventive in order to solve this problem.

So far, the only drawback in electric cars is the charge time, what an inconvenience it is.

There is a solution

You do not charge your battery, you exchange it.

I see it happening this way, just like you drive into a car wash where you drive between two metal rails until the red stop like comes on then the wash begins, instead of a wash or at the same time an underground machine reaches up to the bottom of your car, removes the discharged battery and replaces it with a charged one.

This may take three (3) minutes or five (5) if you want your car washed too.
:)-
 
Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.
Maybe

but toyota says you will not achieve your goal of zero emissions

there are advantages to electric cars but maybe not as many as you think
 
Where will all the power to charge these EV's come form?

Add in the mining for rare-earth minerals which is very environmentally unfriendly.

Plus the massive problem of used-up batteries.


...
But Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota Motors, the world’s largest (or second largest, depending on the year). and grandson of the automaker’s founder, has spoken out and called out fallacy of thinking that this is possible or desirable. [I must here disclose that I was a consultant for a Toyota company for several years, but that all my comments on the company here are based on publicly available information.]
According to this account in CarBuzz:
As the grandson of Toyota founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, the scion was raised surrounded by all aspects of the auto industry and his business acumen is second to none. So when he had some harsh words for electric vehicles at the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association end-of-year press conference last week, people took notice.

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO's disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they'll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. "The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse," he said. "The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, 'Let's get rid of all cars using gasoline,' do they understand this?"​

Studies detailing the carbon emissions necessary to manufacture an electric vehicle reveal that on a net basis, there are more emissions for vehicle bought and used for its expected lifetime, than would be generated by buying and using a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle.
...​


Americans should keep the lithium and not give it back to the communists that exploited children to obtain it. Next, a recycling and battery manufacturing facility should be installed on the north-south axis (the capitalist axis) in Ohio and Louisiana, post COVID.

Efficiency of recharging will come from individual ownership of the means of recharging, and battery technology breakthroughs (air-alumininum, for ex.). It’s better than relying on the four F’s, more lesbionic than Lesbos, gayer-than gay: Finite Fairytale Fossil Fuel.
 
Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Biden wants to make 50% of cars sold electric, but at the same time he is trying to cut out the only reliable sources of electricity generation. Sweet, we all have electric cars but no electricity to charge them with.

By the way:

All the Teslas in Hope, B.C., in line waiting 2.5 hours for a charger to continue on to Vancouver. pic.twitter.com/ZXDWXzLcDw

Lola (@LolaHumphrey19) July 31, 2021

1628262687243.png
 
"So far, the only drawback in electric cars is the charge time, what an inconvenience it is.

There is a solution

You do not charge your battery, you exchange it." wf #72
This is premised on "range anxiety" much less a problem with gasoline powered automobiles.
That's due to the substantially higher energy density of gasoline, compared to Li-Ion, and because there are many more times as many gasoline stations as EV recharging stations.

Electric battery storage technology is advancing. But the rate of innovation is incremental, with no reasonable promise of matching or surpassing gasoline energy density any time soon.

I appreciate the swappable battery idea. But it carries its own problems.
- For one, a battery ideally suited to the size, weight, and duty of one vehicle may not be suited to another vehicle. So this means a variety of different batteries for a variety of different vehicles.
Modular batteries might help solve that, but it's a familiar warning to not mix batteries (cells) of differing conditions, states of charge.

- It excludes those that have modified their own battery, to improve one or more performance parameters.

Long term it may be the automobile itself that must go. We're a long way from there. Happy motoring.
 
Which country do you believe is ahead of all others in the energy future?

China Aims to Spend at Least $360 Billion on Renewable Energy by 2020

China intends to spend more than $360 billion through 2020 on renewable power sources
like solar and wind, the government’s energy agency said on Thursday.

The country’s National Energy Administration laid out a plan to dominate one of the world’s fastest-growing industries

The agency said in a statement that China would create more than 13 million jobs in the renewable energy sector by 2020, curb the growth of greenhouse gasses that contribute to global warming and reduce the amount of soot that in recent days has blanketed Beijing and other Chinese cities in a noxious cloud of smog.

China surpassed the United States a decade ago as the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gasses, and now discharges about twice as much. For years, its oil and coal industries prospered under powerful political patrons and the growth-above-anything mantra of the ruling Communist Party.

2017 China Electric Car Sales Blow World Out Of The Water — BAIC EC-Series Is A Superstar

The rise and rise of the Chinese plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) market is unstoppable, with yet another record performance in December. A total of 102,000 new passenger PEVs were registered last month, up 130% year over year. Yes, that was just December, and it pulled the year-to-date count to over 600,000 units, up 71% compared to 2016.

As consequence of this rapid growth, in December, the PEV share hit a record 3.3% market share of the entire Chinese auto market, while the entire 2017 PEV market share ended at 2.1%. That’s firmly ahead of last year’s score (1.5%) and above the USA (1.2%) and Europe (~1.9%).

The Chinese PEV market represented roughly half of the 1.2 million plug-ins sold worldwide in 2017, while Chinese carmakers made 47% of all PEVs sold last year.

Our future at being the world’s great leader is coming to an end. Soon we, i.e. the us will fall into the category of a third world economy if we do not wake up soooon!
 
But it carries its own problems.
- For one, a battery ideally suited to the size, weight, and duty of one vehicle may not be suited to another vehicle.
I believe that is why the term “standardization” came into play.
:)-
 

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