The AR-15 Loses It's "Assault Rifle" Stigma!

[DriftingSand]

Ever since the Clinton administration any rifle that was black or mostly black was seen by the anti-self-defense/anti-gunners as "an assault rifle." The fear-mongering from the Left was seemingly endless. "We MUST eliminate all black rifles for they are more dangerous than rifles with wooden stocks." These kooks were able to convince much of the ignorant public that the color of a rifle determined it's purpose. Such silliness is finally losing vogue amidst modern-America's more informed public. That's good news for normal Americans and bad news for Left-leaning dunderheads.

Black Rifles out of the Shadows

Like so many things these days it’s quite ironic: the so-called “black” rifles that have caused such a stir since the Clinton Administration

a little news dump about the marxist clintons

As expected, a large document dump was dropped on Friday at the start of a three-day weekend, hoping most Americans wouldn’t pay attention. Politico reports on many of the revelations from Clinton’s term as President, but this one about militias is especially interesting:

In the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing, the Clinton administration considered the possibility of aggressive new regulation of domestic militia groups, including publishing membership lists of such organization, requiring them to register with the federal government or to get permission before offering “paramilitary” training.

Friday Document Dump Bill Clinton wanted to force militias to REGISTER with federal government The Right Scoop -

Clinton and Janet Reno were totally paranoid where America's militia groups were concerned. Many innocent lives were lost as a result of Clinton's and Reno's several knee jerk/over reactions. Little kids and unarmed women were literally murdered by that administration.

Yeah, Randy Weaver who trafficked gunz to racists and hid behind his family while they murdered federal agents who gave him weeks to surrender peacefully, comes to mind.

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

LOL. "Trafficked guns?" Randy kept to himself but was urged time and again to cut the barrels of a couple of shotguns by a snitch, ATF informant (a pretend biker who went out of his way to befriend Weaver). When he did, the barrels were miraculously too short to be considered "legal" (3/8ths of an inch too short) even though Weaver insisted that he cut them to the legal limit. It's believed that the agent further shortened the barrels to implicate Weaver. So that's it ... Weaver and his wife were murdered over a couple of short shotguns in a case of ATF entrapment.

 

[Mad Scientist]

AR-15's are good for shooting varmints on yer property and not much else.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[WinterBorn]

AR-15's are good for shooting varmints on yer property and not much else.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I had one several years ago. They are accurate, I'll give them that. But the tiny little bullet limits their use. I'm a fan of bigger bullets. I think the .308 round makes for a better semi-auto rifle.

 

[DriftingSand]

AR-15's are good for shooting varmints on yer property and not much else.

Just my 2 cents.

.308s are better but .223 is still fun for target shooting.

 

[AtticusF]

Like so many things these days it’s quite ironic: the so-called “black” rifles that have caused such a stir since the Clinton Administration

a little news dump about the marxist clintons

As expected, a large document dump was dropped on Friday at the start of a three-day weekend, hoping most Americans wouldn’t pay attention. Politico reports on many of the revelations from Clinton’s term as President, but this one about militias is especially interesting:

In the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing, the Clinton administration considered the possibility of aggressive new regulation of domestic militia groups, including publishing membership lists of such organization, requiring them to register with the federal government or to get permission before offering “paramilitary” training.

Friday Document Dump Bill Clinton wanted to force militias to REGISTER with federal government The Right Scoop -

Clinton and Janet Reno were totally paranoid where America's militia groups were concerned. Many innocent lives were lost as a result of Clinton's and Reno's several knee jerk/over reactions. Little kids and unarmed women were literally murdered by that administration.

Yeah, Randy Weaver who trafficked gunz to racists and hid behind his family while they murdered federal agents who gave him weeks to surrender peacefully, comes to mind.

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

 

[DriftingSand]

Clinton and Janet Reno were totally paranoid where America's militia groups were concerned. Many innocent lives were lost as a result of Clinton's and Reno's several knee jerk/over reactions. Little kids and unarmed women were literally murdered by that administration.

Yeah, Randy Weaver who trafficked gunz to racists and hid behind his family while they murdered federal agents who gave him weeks to surrender peacefully, comes to mind.

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

1) Like the A.N. or not ... they have a legal right to exist unless and until they actually break a law.
2) Weaver did NOT hide behind his wife but even if he had the sniper had no business firing on an unarmed woman holding a baby.
3) The Feds shot the family pet when the pet was simply doing its job on private property.
4) The son had a right to defend a member of his family (the dog) but was shot in the back as a result.
5) The entire thing could have been avoided had the ATF snitch not entrapped Weaver to begin with.
6) The entire event could have been avoided had the Feds just walked to the front door and knocked. Weaver had done nothing to indicate that the was a threat to them.

 

[AtticusF]

Yeah, Randy Weaver who trafficked gunz to racists and hid behind his family while they murdered federal agents who gave him weeks to surrender peacefully, comes to mind.

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

1) Like the A.N. or not ... they have a legal right to exist unless and until they actually break a law.
2) Weaver did NOT hide behind his wife but even if he had the sniper had no business firing on an unarmed woman holding a baby.
3) The Feds shot the family pet when the pet was simply doing its job on private property.
4) The son had a right to defend a member of his family (the dog) but was shot in the back as a result.
5) The entire thing could have been avoided had the ATF snitch not entrapped Weaver to begin with.
6) The entire event could have been avoided had the Feds just walked to the front door and knocked. Weaver had done nothing to indicate that the was a threat to them.

Actually, the whole thing would have been avoided had weaver not befriended racists in the Ayran Nation and agreed to sell them illegal weapons so they could kill/intimidate minorities. That is illegal. Besides, lots of things are legal that are immoral. I realize racists hide behind legality when they are practicing their vile hatred, but that doesn't make it right. Weaver is a loser and a blight on our country, as are those who support him.

 

[DriftingSand]

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

1) Like the A.N. or not ... they have a legal right to exist unless and until they actually break a law.
2) Weaver did NOT hide behind his wife but even if he had the sniper had no business firing on an unarmed woman holding a baby.
3) The Feds shot the family pet when the pet was simply doing its job on private property.
4) The son had a right to defend a member of his family (the dog) but was shot in the back as a result.
5) The entire thing could have been avoided had the ATF snitch not entrapped Weaver to begin with.
6) The entire event could have been avoided had the Feds just walked to the front door and knocked. Weaver had done nothing to indicate that the was a threat to them.

Actually, the whole thing would have been avoided had weaver not befriended racists in the Ayran Nation and agreed to sell them illegal weapons so they could kill/intimidate minorities. That is illegal. Besides, lots of things are legal that are immoral. I realize racists hide behind legality when they are practicing their vile hatred, but that doesn't make it right. Weaver is a loser and a blight on our country, as are those who support him.

Poor argumentation. A man befriending questionable characters isn't justification for FBI snipers shooting unarmed women while holding babies. That's a truly ridiculous conclusion to reach. I'm guessing you're a Liberal.

 

[WinterBorn]

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

1) Like the A.N. or not ... they have a legal right to exist unless and until they actually break a law.
2) Weaver did NOT hide behind his wife but even if he had the sniper had no business firing on an unarmed woman holding a baby.
3) The Feds shot the family pet when the pet was simply doing its job on private property.
4) The son had a right to defend a member of his family (the dog) but was shot in the back as a result.
5) The entire thing could have been avoided had the ATF snitch not entrapped Weaver to begin with.
6) The entire event could have been avoided had the Feds just walked to the front door and knocked. Weaver had done nothing to indicate that the was a threat to them.

Actually, the whole thing would have been avoided had weaver not befriended racists in the Ayran Nation and agreed to sell them illegal weapons so they could kill/intimidate minorities. That is illegal. Besides, lots of things are legal that are immoral. I realize racists hide behind legality when they are practicing their vile hatred, but that doesn't make it right. Weaver is a loser and a blight on our country, as are those who support him.

I have never claimed Randy Weaver was an upstanding citizen or a value to society. What I HAVE claimed is that his wife and son were murdered by the feds. Neither of them presented any danger when they were shot. The 14 year old son was shot in the back by a federal agent who had NOT identified himself and was not wearing any sort of insignia.

And if Kevin Harris (the friend of the Weavers who was staying with them and the one who shot and killed the federal agent) was so guilty, why was he aquitted of all charges? The judge agreed that it was self-defense.

The sniper who shot Vicki Weaver was indicted for manslaughter, but the feds intervened.

The entire debacle was insane.

 

[WinterBorn]

You might want to do a little research into the Rudy Ridge/Randy Weaver story. Apparently you have been fed myths.

Nope. Your boy Randy trafficked illegal gunz to racists. I know that endears him to you. Then, the feds gave him weeks to surrender. He choose to hide behind his wife and kids in their well-armed compound. They shot a federal agent during all that time. I get that makes him a hero to cigar smoking, gun loving, bigots, but thems the facts. Gerry Spence, of OJ fame, got him off, but he's still a racist POS who hid by his family while the feds gave him a lot more time to surrender than police give unarmed Black kids.

He sold a gun. That much you have correct. A top level agent at the FBI even admitted that the charges were "iffy" at best.

He didn't hide behind his wife. She was standing in the doorway of their home when she was shot by an FBI sniper. That would have been ok, if she had been holding a weapon. She was holding a 10 month old baby.

When they agent was shot he had just shot the family dog and had not identified himself as law enforcement. He was wearing camo clothing with no identifying insignia on it. And he he just shot a 14 year old boy in the back. Now yes, the 14 year old had fired a rifle in the direction of the people who had shot his dog. But when he was murdered he was running away.

Yes, the feds gave Weaver weeks to surrender. But that was after they changed teh date of his trial and did not notify him. He was being railroaded because he refused to be an undercover rat.


Look, I am sure you feel all tough calling me a racist and such. But the facts are that the FBI were so incompetent and aggressive in this case that they should have had to pay Weaver millions of dollars. Let me know when the fact that I enjoy an occasional cigar means anything in this topic.

He sold a gun to Ayran Nation, that's enough for me. He did hide behind his wife. He refused to surrender despite the feds giving him weeks to walk out. Instead he put his family in jeopardy. The FBI was not aggressive. Randy -- the Ayran Nation boy -- could have given up and protected his family. Instead, he put them in jeopardy and did, in fact, hide behind them.

He didn't and folks like you consider him a martyr just like Dave K who raped little girls and like weaver had 51 days to walk out of his compound. Yet he choose to sit tight so he could continue raping people and waiting for federal agents to shoot. I think his gang killed 4, if I remember.

1) Like the A.N. or not ... they have a legal right to exist unless and until they actually break a law.
2) Weaver did NOT hide behind his wife but even if he had the sniper had no business firing on an unarmed woman holding a baby.
3) The Feds shot the family pet when the pet was simply doing its job on private property.
4) The son had a right to defend a member of his family (the dog) but was shot in the back as a result.
5) The entire thing could have been avoided had the ATF snitch not entrapped Weaver to begin with.
6) The entire event could have been avoided had the Feds just walked to the front door and knocked. Weaver had done nothing to indicate that the was a threat to them.

Actually, the whole thing would have been avoided had weaver not befriended racists in the Ayran Nation and agreed to sell them illegal weapons so they could kill/intimidate minorities. That is illegal. Besides, lots of things are legal that are immoral. I realize racists hide behind legality when they are practicing their vile hatred, but that doesn't make it right. Weaver is a loser and a blight on our country, as are those who support him.

No, it does not make it right. But it damn sure shouldn't be a situation that allows for execution without a trial.

 

[Jarlaxle]

LOL. "Trafficked guns?" Randy kept to himself but was urged time and again to cut the barrels of a couple of shotguns by a snitch, ATF informant (a pretend biker who went out of his way to befriend Weaver). When he did, the barrels were miraculously too short to be considered "legal" (3/8ths of an inch too short) even though Weaver insisted that he cut them to the legal limit. It's believed that the agent further shortened the barrels to implicate Weaver. So that's it ... Weaver and his wife were murdered over a couple of short shotguns in a case of ATF entrapment.

Actually, no: the BARREL was legal. However, the STOCK had been shortened (it's still an open question who did it), making the gun too short.

 

[Rotagilla]

A jury acquitted him and Kevin Harris of murder charges for the death of agent william degan .
Weaver was subsequently convicted of "failure to appear" for the weapons charge and sentenced to 18 months..of which 14 had already been served at that point.

Weaver sued the gvmt and won 3 million dollars for the wrongful death of his wife, Vicki who was assassinated while holding a baby by FBI sniper lon horiuchi who was charged with manslaughter (!)

...the charges were eventually dropped...of course...

There is no proof he was a member or had anything to do with aryan nation other than the fact that the fbi wanted him to turn informant in exchange for dropping the charges that he (allegedly) sold 2 sawed off shotguns, but he refused and told the a.n. about it. The fbi was pissed off.

The court sent him a subpoena for the original weapons charge, but it had the wrong date on it and when he (naturally) didn't show up on the right date they issued a warrant for failure to appear which THEN gave them the excuse they needed to shoot and kill a teenager and a mother holding a baby when they tried to "serve" their warrant.