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1.First of all, I don’t mean to minimize the importance of the family dynamics that took place between the first Jews and the ancestor of several prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Muhammad. ….certainly not in light of the importance of those dynamics in the headlines these days.
And soap operas have become important today….what with the coronavirus captivity.
“Daytime Soaps Surge: B&B, Days, GH and Y&R Experience Significant Ratings Boosts as America Quarantines” Daytime Soaps Surge: B&B, Days, GH and Y&R Experience Significant Ratings Boosts as America Quarantines
2. Now….the biblical soap opera: I refer to Genesis, chapter 21.
See, the first Jewish person is really old when God promises him kids. And Abraham really wants children… so, Sarah offers her Egyptian maid, Hagar, to Abraham to provide him with a child….and guess what line that child began…. “Hagar, Abraham’s concubine and the mother of his son Ishmael. Purchased in Egypt, she served as a maid to Abraham’s childless wife, Sarah, who gave her to Abraham to conceive an heir…. The Jews believed that Ishmael was the ancestor of a number of Bedouin peoples dwelling in southern Palestine. There are also legends stating that Ishmael was an ancestor of Muḥammad.” Hagar | biblical figure
Does that plot apply today? You betcha’!
“Can my husband see his mistress?': French police receive bizarre lockdown questions” 'Can my husband see his mistress?': Police's oddest lockdown questions
3. So, a miracle occurs….the aged Sarah becomes pregnant…gives birth to the promised inheritor of God’s blessing, Isaac.
21.2 Sarah conceived and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken.
21.3 Abraham gave his newborn son, whom Sarah had borne him, the name of Isaac.
Now the plot thickens! Isaac is about two, Ishmael about sixteen, and it dawns on Sarah that….if Abraham dies….both will be his heirs…and if you are familiar with the history of ‘royal houses,’ this problem is often solved in a lethal manner!
Sarah may be a nice Jewish girl…or old lady….but she is a tigress when it comes to protecting the interests of her baby boy!
Sooo….what would the plot line be if this were on Lifetime channel???
How about if it were on the Investigation Discovery channel??? (Toccata and fugue in D)
Well, not only Hagar turned disrespectful towards our mother Sarah A"H,
but Torah tells us her son Ishmael who's wild nature as a hunter already started to appear,
used to "laugh around", shooting arrows around Itzhak, he wouldn't dare kill his brother while Avraham Avinu A"H was alive, but while laughing to himself he was thinking exactly about what You wrote - what would happen after Aveaham Avinu A"H passed.
However, one has to take in mind that our mother Sarah A"H, was actually of a higher level in prophecy than Avraham Avinu A"H - G-d Himself confirmed that (Beresheet 21:12) telling Avraham Avinu to listen to his wife when she demanded to expel Hagar.
G-d's plan was to establish a nation that would be burdened with correction of the world, specifically from one specific (Semitic) family line of the handful of Hebrews that were remained on earth in exile - "for in Isaac will be called your seed" (Ber. 21:12). And so it continued with Jacob who married within that family. One must also mention that all this time, throughout his entire life Avraham Avinu A"H kept contact and used to visit Ishmael whom he dearly loved.
Anyway, back to today - it is written that upon the two brothers hearing of Avraham Avinu A"H passing away they went to bury their father together. "And Abraham expired and died in a good old age, old and satisfied, and he was gathered to his people. And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the Cave of Machpelah..." (Ber. 25:8-9). Thus Ishmael eventually did Tshuvah (repented) recognizing Itzhka's birthright giving him forward the way during burial.
Ishmael did Tshuvah - how is this relevant for today?
Well, look at recent development of Israel's relations with the Arab world in the last decade.
Until the current world crisis, it must be said in favor of many Arab countries, they began reversing their hostility whether openly or 'under the table', some opened their skies to Israel, played Israel's anthem in sports events, several even opened new synagogues and started working on mutual tourism, or simply publicly established official relations that could not be even perceived s a wild imagination some decades ago (probably since Israel's re-constitution).
Put cynicism aside, though there is of course a measure of healthy skepticism that has to remain, what we saw was actually a formation of a wide regional alliance based on security interests, with a great potential of further development of a unified economic trade zone, with Israel at the leadership position.
No matter how much relations with Israel could benefit Arab world,
no matter how Israel could try and play this around, and again cynicism aside,
to the favor of Arabs - without their Tshuvah this simply couldn't be brought about.
We'll see what tomorrow brings.
It appears that Hagar is the one put-upon by Sarah.
And Abraham recognizes this.
From Prager's book, "Genesis:"
21.11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly, for it concerned a son of his.
This translation downplays Abraham’s internal reaction. The Hebrew does not say “distressed.” It says, “the thing was very bad in his eyes.” Sarah’s demand must have stunned Abraham. Ishmael was, after all, also his son—a son whom he loved and, furthermore, who was conceived at Sarah’s behest. But she long since regretted her scheme (Genesis 16:4-6) and now wanted both Ishmael and his mother gone. That Sarah did not even deign to refer to Ishmael or his mother by their
names must have further upset Abraham. There are many things that can produce tension between a husband and wife. The raising of children is one of the biggest—particularly when one of them is a stepchild."
Our mother Sarah A"H did no wrong to Hagar.
Avraham Avinu A"H did love Ishmael, and thus had a blind spot even seeing the issue.
G-d later confirmed Sarah Imenu A"H was right,
even on a higher prophetic level, seeing much further in G-d's plan than Avraham A"H.
It has more to do with the universalist -cosmopolitan vs particularist vision that he pondered upon regarding the way to fulfill the mission set for him, G-d eventually confirmed as well, it was a particularist vision - but that seems a topic for a whole other conversation.
Something most Christians aren't aware of is that Hagar was upgraded from slave to wife. Making her son Ishmael equal with Isaac as a legitimate heir to Abraham's blessings.
Genesis 16:3 "So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife."
1.First of all, I don’t mean to minimize the importance of the family dynamics that took place between the first Jews and the ancestor of several prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Muhammad. ….certainly not in light of the importance of those dynamics in the headlines these days.
And soap operas have become important today….what with the coronavirus captivity.
“Daytime Soaps Surge: B&B, Days, GH and Y&R Experience Significant Ratings Boosts as America Quarantines” Daytime Soaps Surge: B&B, Days, GH and Y&R Experience Significant Ratings Boosts as America Quarantines
2. Now….the biblical soap opera: I refer to Genesis, chapter 21.
See, the first Jewish person is really old when God promises him kids. And Abraham really wants children… so, Sarah offers her Egyptian maid, Hagar, to Abraham to provide him with a child….and guess what line that child began…. “Hagar, Abraham’s concubine and the mother of his son Ishmael. Purchased in Egypt, she served as a maid to Abraham’s childless wife, Sarah, who gave her to Abraham to conceive an heir…. The Jews believed that Ishmael was the ancestor of a number of Bedouin peoples dwelling in southern Palestine. There are also legends stating that Ishmael was an ancestor of Muḥammad.” Hagar | biblical figure
Does that plot apply today? You betcha’!
“Can my husband see his mistress?': French police receive bizarre lockdown questions” 'Can my husband see his mistress?': Police's oddest lockdown questions
3. So, a miracle occurs….the aged Sarah becomes pregnant…gives birth to the promised inheritor of God’s blessing, Isaac.
21.2 Sarah conceived and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken.
21.3 Abraham gave his newborn son, whom Sarah had borne him, the name of Isaac.
Now the plot thickens! Isaac is about two, Ishmael about sixteen, and it dawns on Sarah that….if Abraham dies….both will be his heirs…and if you are familiar with the history of ‘royal houses,’ this problem is often solved in a lethal manner!
Sarah may be a nice Jewish girl…or old lady….but she is a tigress when it comes to protecting the interests of her baby boy!
Sooo….what would the plot line be if this were on Lifetime channel???
How about if it were on the Investigation Discovery channel??? (Toccata and fugue in D)
Well, not only Hagar turned disrespectful towards our mother Sarah A"H,
but Torah tells us her son Ishmael who's wild nature as a hunter already started to appear,
used to "laugh around", shooting arrows around Itzhak, he wouldn't dare kill his brother while Avraham Avinu A"H was alive, but while laughing to himself he was thinking exactly about what You wrote - what would happen after Aveaham Avinu A"H passed.
However, one has to take in mind that our mother Sarah A"H, was actually of a higher level in prophecy than Avraham Avinu A"H - G-d Himself confirmed that (Beresheet 21:12) telling Avraham Avinu to listen to his wife when she demanded to expel Hagar.
G-d's plan was to establish a nation that would be burdened with correction of the world, specifically from one specific (Semitic) family line of the handful of Hebrews that were remained on earth in exile - "for in Isaac will be called your seed" (Ber. 21:12). And so it continued with Jacob who married within that family. One must also mention that all this time, throughout his entire life Avraham Avinu A"H kept contact and used to visit Ishmael whom he dearly loved.
Anyway, back to today - it is written that upon the two brothers hearing of Avraham Avinu A"H passing away they went to bury their father together. "And Abraham expired and died in a good old age, old and satisfied, and he was gathered to his people. And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the Cave of Machpelah..." (Ber. 25:8-9). Thus Ishmael eventually did Tshuvah (repented) recognizing Itzhka's birthright giving him forward the way during burial.
Ishmael did Tshuvah - how is this relevant for today?
Well, look at recent development of Israel's relations with the Arab world in the last decade.
Until the current world crisis, it must be said in favor of many Arab countries, they began reversing their hostility whether openly or 'under the table', some opened their skies to Israel, played Israel's anthem in sports events, several even opened new synagogues and started working on mutual tourism, or simply publicly established official relations that could not be even perceived s a wild imagination some decades ago (probably since Israel's re-constitution).
Put cynicism aside, though there is of course a measure of healthy skepticism that has to remain, what we saw was actually a formation of a wide regional alliance based on security interests, with a great potential of further development of a unified economic trade zone, with Israel at the leadership position.
No matter how much relations with Israel could benefit Arab world,
no matter how Israel could try and play this around, and again cynicism aside,
to the favor of Arabs - without their Tshuvah this simply couldn't be brought about.
We'll see what tomorrow brings.
It appears that Hagar is the one put-upon by Sarah.
And Abraham recognizes this.
From Prager's book, "Genesis:"
21.11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly, for it concerned a son of his.
This translation downplays Abraham’s internal reaction. The Hebrew does not say “distressed.” It says, “the thing was very bad in his eyes.” Sarah’s demand must have stunned Abraham. Ishmael was, after all, also his son—a son whom he loved and, furthermore, who was conceived at Sarah’s behest. But she long since regretted her scheme (Genesis 16:4-6) and now wanted both Ishmael and his mother gone. That Sarah did not even deign to refer to Ishmael or his mother by their
names must have further upset Abraham. There are many things that can produce tension between a husband and wife. The raising of children is one of the biggest—particularly when one of them is a stepchild."
Our mother Sarah A"H did no wrong to Hagar.
Avraham Avinu A"H did love Ishmael, and thus had a blind spot even seeing the issue.
G-d later confirmed Sarah Imenu A"H was right,
even on a higher prophetic level, seeing much further in G-d's plan than Avraham A"H.
It has more to do with the universalist -cosmopolitan vs particularist vision that he pondered upon regarding the way to fulfill the mission set for him, G-d eventually confirmed as well, it was a particularist vision - but that seems a topic for a whole other conversation.
How'd Hagar and Ishmael wind up nearly dying in the desert?
The Bible applies to all people, not just Jewish people, and it does not simply make heroes and heroines out of Jewish folks.
You appear to see the lessons of the Bible as through a straw.
Which adds another layer to the soap opera plot your describing. ...Prager, upon whom I rely for translation from the Hebrew, agrees that the correct word here is 'wife.'
Seriously, are you really going to destroy this thread by going down that road again. ..Yet, we find a very differ god in Islam: "Muslims cant integrate and must hate non muslims."
Those words are from a Muslim leader.
“New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “
Seriously, are you really going to destroy this thread by going down that road again. ..Yet, we find a very differ god in Islam: "Muslims cant integrate and must hate non muslims."
Those words are from a Muslim leader.
“New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “
Like I said before, muslims are free to accept or reject the opinions of a Mufti; especially this guy which has a very small following of muslims. ..
6. But Hagar and Ishmael don’t die in the desert. God, the God of the Jewish Bible, saves the first of the Arab’s line….
16.7 An angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the road to Shur,
“…God cares about non-Jews just as he cares about Jews. Later in the Hebrew Bible, the prophet Amos proclaimed: “To Me, O Israelites, you are just like the Ethiopians, declares the Lord. True, I brought Israel up from the Land of Egypt, but also the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir” (Amos 9:7). And the Prophet Isaiah declared: “for the Lord of Hosts will bless them, saying, ‘Blessed be My People Egypt, My handiwork Assyria, and My very own Israel’ ” (Isaiah 19:25). It is very rare, perhaps unique, among the texts of the world’s religions that other religious and national groups are depicted as equal in God’s (or the gods’) eyes.” Dennis Prager
Yet, we find a very differ god in Islam: "Muslims cant integrate and must hate non muslims."
Those words are from a Muslim leader.
“New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “The general principle… is to love and to hate for the sake of Allah,”
New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: 'Muslims should hate non-Muslims' · Caldron Pool
Clearly, Allah is not the same God of the Bible.
6. But Hagar and Ishmael don’t die in the desert. God, the God of the Jewish Bible, saves the first of the Arab’s line….
16.7 An angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the road to Shur,
“…God cares about non-Jews just as he cares about Jews. Later in the Hebrew Bible, the prophet Amos proclaimed: “To Me, O Israelites, you are just like the Ethiopians, declares the Lord. True, I brought Israel up from the Land of Egypt, but also the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir” (Amos 9:7). And the Prophet Isaiah declared: “for the Lord of Hosts will bless them, saying, ‘Blessed be My People Egypt, My handiwork Assyria, and My very own Israel’ ” (Isaiah 19:25). It is very rare, perhaps unique, among the texts of the world’s religions that other religious and national groups are depicted as equal in God’s (or the gods’) eyes.” Dennis Prager
Yet, we find a very differ god in Islam: "Muslims cant integrate and must hate non muslims."
Those words are from a Muslim leader.
“New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “The general principle… is to love and to hate for the sake of Allah,”
New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: 'Muslims should hate non-Muslims' · Caldron Pool
Clearly, Allah is not the same God of the Bible.
Well, this may not seem nice, or PC but essentially as it is:
the Christian nations (Rome) who's collective archetype was inclined towards murder -
took from the Torah of Israel the measure of Mercy, entirely focusing their religion on that.
Namely - "turn the other cheek"
Muslim nations (Arabs) who's collective archetype was inclined promiscuity and theft -
took from the Torah of Israel the measure of Judgement, focusing their religion on that.
Namely - obsession with women appearance and social order of punishment/execution.
With Israel it's a bit different - from day 1 we were burdened with Unifying G-d's Name,
and thus our collective archetype was constantly being tested and clarifying through disagreement and familial arguments - Jews are people who argue with themselves and others as a culture, that's even in their name - Israel - fighting/arguing with G-d, and the central theme of the story of the nation and specifically Israel's forefathers' and prophets' communication with G-d:
Namely - Abraham Avinu A"H about Soddom,
Mosheh Rabbenu A"H about the Calf.
Yosef HaTzadik A"H with the Tribes.
This is the dynamics through which fulfills Tikkun 'Olam - Correction of the word,
and process of truth clarification throughout history of mankind.
Sunni won't like this...others may not as well.
Israel is the one who eventually through clarification and unifying all these measure into its correct equilibrium have the key to solve the impossible chasm between West and the East,
Esau and Ishmael - both eventually reform.
Not conversion to Judaism, rather reform to align with the roots - Israel's Torah.
Again, once the Pagan world couldn't imagine it's going to turn Christian or Muslim.,
the same now most cannot conceive this seemingly crazy idea.
However inevitable.
All for good.
6. But Hagar and Ishmael don’t die in the desert. God, the God of the Jewish Bible, saves the first of the Arab’s line….
16.7 An angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the road to Shur,
“…God cares about non-Jews just as he cares about Jews. Later in the Hebrew Bible, the prophet Amos proclaimed: “To Me, O Israelites, you are just like the Ethiopians, declares the Lord. True, I brought Israel up from the Land of Egypt, but also the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir” (Amos 9:7). And the Prophet Isaiah declared: “for the Lord of Hosts will bless them, saying, ‘Blessed be My People Egypt, My handiwork Assyria, and My very own Israel’ ” (Isaiah 19:25). It is very rare, perhaps unique, among the texts of the world’s religions that other religious and national groups are depicted as equal in God’s (or the gods’) eyes.” Dennis Prager
Yet, we find a very differ god in Islam: "Muslims cant integrate and must hate non muslims."
Those words are from a Muslim leader.
“New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “The general principle… is to love and to hate for the sake of Allah,”
New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: 'Muslims should hate non-Muslims' · Caldron Pool
Clearly, Allah is not the same God of the Bible.
Well, this may not seem nice, or PC but essentially as it is:
the Christian nations (Rome) who's collective archetype was inclined towards murder -
took from the Torah of Israel the measure of Mercy, entirely focusing their religion on that.
Namely - "turn the other cheek"
Muslim nations (Arabs) who's collective archetype was inclined promiscuity and theft -
took from the Torah of Israel the measure of Judgement, focusing their religion on that.
Namely - obsession with women appearance and social order of punishment/execution.
With Israel it's a bit different - from day 1 we were burdened with Unifying G-d's Name,
and thus our collective archetype was constantly being tested and clarifying through disagreement and familial arguments - Jews are people who argue with themselves and others as a culture, that's even in their name - Israel - fighting/arguing with G-d, and the central theme of the story of the nation and specifically Israel's forefathers' and prophets' communication with G-d:
Namely - Abraham Avinu A"H about Soddom,
Mosheh Rabbenu A"H about the Calf.
Yosef HaTzadik A"H with the Tribes.
This is the dynamics through which fulfills Tikkun 'Olam - Correction of the word,
and process of truth clarification throughout history of mankind.
"Well, this may not seem nice, or PC but essentially as it is: "
Your explanation has nothing to do with the conclusion you begin with.
You really don't see that, or are informing a role as apologist for the history of the Jewish people?
That would obviate accepting anything you post.
1. Hagar was a slave.
2. Sarah originated the plan to have her as surrogate mother.
3. Sarah then blamed her for having the child Sarah had commissioned.
4.Sarah then forced Hagar and a teenager into almost certain death.
"Well, this may not seem nice,..."
No....it isn't, and neither God nor Abraham thought it was.
yes, it could be.... since we can all suffer from the green eyed jealousy monster.... humans are humans filled with emotions and4. OK…no murder here.
Just a recounting of, as Sue said, an 'all-too-human' human situation.
Now.....add the green-eyed-monster....jealousy!!!
21.10 She said to Abraham, “Cast out that slave-woman and her son, for the son of that slave shall not share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
Let me note here, that this could be considered as evidence in the argument over whether the Bible is simply a ‘novel’ or divinely inspired: The first Jewish wife doesn’t come across as too nice in this interaction, does she.
If the ‘tribe’ wrote the Old Testament….wouldn’t Sarah be more….’heroic’?
“There is no reason to believe Ishmael had done anything wrong. But now that Isaac has survived past the critical age of weaning, Sarah realized he will have competition for his inheritance, and she sought to eliminate it. She succeeded: Genesis 25:5 records at the end of Abraham’s life that “he gave everything he had to Isaac.” Dennis Prager
Could this be a reason for the animus by Muslims…..a grudge from antiquity?
Sunni won't like this...others may not as well.
Israel is the one who eventually through clarification and unifying all these measure into its correct equilibrium have the key to solve the impossible chasm between West and the East,
Esau and Ishmael - both eventually reform.
Not conversion to Judaism, rather reform to align with the roots - Israel's Torah.
Again, once the Pagan world couldn't imagine it's going to turn Christian or Muslim.,
the same now most cannot conceive this seemingly crazy idea.
However inevitable.
All for good.
You are really missing what is far worse: secularism.
Read Sunni's posts carefully, and you will see a yearning for and, possibly, presaging a reformation in Islam, as western religion went through.
If and when that happens, religion will fight the real enemy.....militant secularism, based on this:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." Leon Trotsky
yes, it could be.... since we can all suffer from the green eyed jealousy monster.... humans are humans filled with emotions and4. OK…no murder here.
Just a recounting of, as Sue said, an 'all-too-human' human situation.
Now.....add the green-eyed-monster....jealousy!!!
21.10 She said to Abraham, “Cast out that slave-woman and her son, for the son of that slave shall not share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
Let me note here, that this could be considered as evidence in the argument over whether the Bible is simply a ‘novel’ or divinely inspired: The first Jewish wife doesn’t come across as too nice in this interaction, does she.
If the ‘tribe’ wrote the Old Testament….wouldn’t Sarah be more….’heroic’?
“There is no reason to believe Ishmael had done anything wrong. But now that Isaac has survived past the critical age of weaning, Sarah realized he will have competition for his inheritance, and she sought to eliminate it. She succeeded: Genesis 25:5 records at the end of Abraham’s life that “he gave everything he had to Isaac.” Dennis Prager
Could this be a reason for the animus by Muslims…..a grudge from antiquity?
WE all fall short of the glory of God.
Sunni won't like this...others may not as well.
Israel is the one who eventually through clarification and unifying all these measure into its correct equilibrium have the key to solve the impossible chasm between West and the East,
Esau and Ishmael - both eventually reform.
Not conversion to Judaism, rather reform to align with the roots - Israel's Torah.
Again, once the Pagan world couldn't imagine it's going to turn Christian or Muslim.,
the same now most cannot conceive this seemingly crazy idea.
However inevitable.
All for good.
You are really missing what is far worse: secularism.
Read Sunni's posts carefully, and you will see a yearning for and, possibly, presaging a reformation in Islam, as western religion went through.
If and when that happens, religion will fight the real enemy.....militant secularism, based on this:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." Leon Trotsky
Maybe I would agree a 100 years ago, maybe, not sure.
But true secularism is almost non-existent in our days.
What there is, is a rebellious generation - not for the sake of rebelling,
rather holding to impossible standards, and testing reality in search for undeniable truth.
Religiosity is much worse an illness - it's promiscuous, vulgar.
Well, maybe I'm certifiable,Sunni won't like this...others may not as well.
Israel is the one who eventually through clarification and unifying all these measure into its correct equilibrium have the key to solve the impossible chasm between West and the East,
Esau and Ishmael - both eventually reform.
Not conversion to Judaism, rather reform to align with the roots - Israel's Torah.
Again, once the Pagan world couldn't imagine it's going to turn Christian or Muslim.,
the same now most cannot conceive this seemingly crazy idea.
However inevitable.
All for good.
You are really missing what is far worse: secularism.
Read Sunni's posts carefully, and you will see a yearning for and, possibly, presaging a reformation in Islam, as western religion went through.
If and when that happens, religion will fight the real enemy.....militant secularism, based on this:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." Leon Trotsky
Maybe I would agree a 100 years ago, maybe, not sure.
But true secularism is almost non-existent in our days.
What there is, is a rebellious generation - not for the sake of rebelling,
rather holding to impossible standards, and testing reality in search for undeniable truth.
Religiosity is much worse an illness - it's promiscuous, vulgar.
"Maybe I would agree a 100 years ago, maybe, not sure.
But true secularism is almost non-existent in our days."
You are clearly a squirrel's view of heaven.
You're truly certifiable: how could I have missed it.
1. ”Barr: The Real People Trying To ‘Impose Their Values’ On Others Are ‘Militant Secularists’
It has been long convenient for secularists to insist that it is possible for government to be neutral about religion by imposing their religion on everyone.
…religion is being driven out of the marketplace of ideas and there’s a organized militant secular effort to drive religion out of our lives” “To me the problem today is not that religious people are trying to impose their views on nonreligious people, it’s the opposite — it’s that militant secularists are trying to impose their values on religious people and they’re not accommodating the freedom of religion of people of faith.”
Barr: The People Trying To 'Impose Their Values' Are 'Militant Secularists'
2. "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal- a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton
3. The Democrat Party is now running on full-blown anti-white racism, socialism, infanticide, opposition to free speech, substituting illegal alien voters for the American citizenry, and anti-Semitism… the knuckle-dragging, atavistic pagan party.
Well, maybe I'm certifiable,Sunni won't like this...others may not as well.
Israel is the one who eventually through clarification and unifying all these measure into its correct equilibrium have the key to solve the impossible chasm between West and the East,
Esau and Ishmael - both eventually reform.
Not conversion to Judaism, rather reform to align with the roots - Israel's Torah.
Again, once the Pagan world couldn't imagine it's going to turn Christian or Muslim.,
the same now most cannot conceive this seemingly crazy idea.
However inevitable.
All for good.
You are really missing what is far worse: secularism.
Read Sunni's posts carefully, and you will see a yearning for and, possibly, presaging a reformation in Islam, as western religion went through.
If and when that happens, religion will fight the real enemy.....militant secularism, based on this:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." Leon Trotsky
Maybe I would agree a 100 years ago, maybe, not sure.
But true secularism is almost non-existent in our days.
What there is, is a rebellious generation - not for the sake of rebelling,
rather holding to impossible standards, and testing reality in search for undeniable truth.
Religiosity is much worse an illness - it's promiscuous, vulgar.
"Maybe I would agree a 100 years ago, maybe, not sure.
But true secularism is almost non-existent in our days."
You are clearly a squirrel's view of heaven.
You're truly certifiable: how could I have missed it.
1. ”Barr: The Real People Trying To ‘Impose Their Values’ On Others Are ‘Militant Secularists’
It has been long convenient for secularists to insist that it is possible for government to be neutral about religion by imposing their religion on everyone.
…religion is being driven out of the marketplace of ideas and there’s a organized militant secular effort to drive religion out of our lives” “To me the problem today is not that religious people are trying to impose their views on nonreligious people, it’s the opposite — it’s that militant secularists are trying to impose their values on religious people and they’re not accommodating the freedom of religion of people of faith.”
Barr: The People Trying To 'Impose Their Values' Are 'Militant Secularists'
2. "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal- a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton
3. The Democrat Party is now running on full-blown anti-white racism, socialism, infanticide, opposition to free speech, substituting illegal alien voters for the American citizenry, and anti-Semitism… the knuckle-dragging, atavistic pagan party.
maybe it has something to do with living on the other side of the globe.
For example, only a week ago I learned Americans were OFFICIALLY registering race and skin-color in state documents, and using that as a measurement to manage budget.
Shocked me to the core...
However I'm digressing, and still You're putting too much in the bag and mixing a lot here.
Race, religion, anti-semitism, illegals and the new donuts sprinkle...
How am I supposed to address all that?
Choose one.
