Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

[Pogo]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

How is that "hilarious"?

 

[Likkmee]

I'm not surprised by this.

I knew that deregulation and privatization was a horrible idea. For many reasons.

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit. It always leaves the American consumer with no recourse to when that private company and their greed end up killing people as it did in Texas.

Texans have paid 28 billion dollars more in energy than they would have if they had not deregulated and privatized.

We didn't deregulate privatize in my state. We have only one electricity provider. The Public Utility District. I live in PUD number 1.

We control that energy. We the people hire the heads of the PUD. Not any politician. The heads of PUD have to be elected by the people and have to answer directly to the people.

Not some crony hired by a politician whose only motivation is greed.

The rates can't be increased without asking for the increase and honestly justifying that increase. The increase isn't decided by a greedy private company, the people own it so it's the people who decide if there's an increase.

The result is we have more energy than we use so we sell it for a profit to other states.

We have the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

We also don't have people dying because a greedy private energy company didn't do the right thing and winterize nor do we end up with electric bills in the thousands when there's a spike in electric use.

The people who bought into the deregulation and privatization were duped.

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

Texas’s deregulated electricity market left millions in the dark last week. For the past 20 years, its consumers have paid more for their electricity than state residents who are served by traditional utilities, a WSJ investigation found.

www.wsj.com

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit.

So when government does something, it's cheaper.....because there's no profit?

Any backup for your idea?

Fauci makes far less than a good oral surgeon in CA

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Consumers were offered wonderful rates. I got calls all the time. How can you say no?

But in the fine print there is a catch. You have to pay market rates for energy. If there is a crisis, you have to pay up.

They apparently didn't say one of those catches would be left with no lights or heat in sub zero temperatures and people will die.

My state didn't deregulate and privatize.

Yet my state has the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

Seems to me that the exact opposite of what republicans claimed happened.

There are regulatory measures which are necessary, proper, and appropriate – the regulation of public utilities being one such example.

 

[Mr Natural]

Deregulating a product with an inelastic demand curve.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[DudleySmith]

They are of course lying through their teeth. Capital Investment in long term stuff like additional power plants and replacing depreciating equity reduces short term dividends, and besides when anything happens they can just raise prices and then make the govt. pay for the other stuff, like all corporations like to do these days.

Doesn't seem to be the case. I could be wrong. But it has been shown that they were not running 100% capacity. Would running at 100% mean no rolling blackouts? I don't know... But we do know they were not running and producing as much as they could have been.

They scale back or otherwise the whole system would go dead. I live near a main line, so we never lost power; they can't kill those, but they can isolate pieces of the grid off the main lines. It wasn't all about capacity, it is about it not being cost effective to bury the lines underground, as it is in high density regions like New York City, for instance, and also many home here are built on pier and beam foundations, which means the water and plumbing are above ground. My little town had 20 wateer mains break, yet they hndled that very well; what they couldn't do was fix busted pipes under a couple thousand houses very quickly. I buried my water lines some years ago, thankfully, and had the means to do it myself, so it cost me very little.

Utilities are natural monopolies, and will always revert back to one so there is little point in bucking that fact of life. Same with roads.

 

[Dekster]

They are of course lying through their teeth. Capital Investment in long term stuff like additional power plants and replacing depreciating equity reduces short term dividends, and besides when anything happens they can just raise prices and then make the govt. pay for the other stuff, like all corporations like to do these days.

Doesn't seem to be the case. I could be wrong. But it has been shown that they were not running 100% capacity. Would running at 100% mean no rolling blackouts? I don't know... But we do know they were not running and producing as much as they could have been.

No they were not running at 100% of sunny warm day capacity. Texas infrastructure is built to work on 110° not 10° days. That is true of all their utilities, including water gas and electric. The rolling black outs were necessary to keep the grid stabilized. They had to shed demand on the grid in order to keep the people who were producing from tripping into automatic shutdowns. All modern grids have points at which they will trip off. If there is too much supply, they trip generation off to keep things from melting if the excess cannot be routed somewhere else (happens in Germany where they have to pay people to take electricity off the grid). When there is too little supply to meet demand, they ether have to create the rolling blackouts or risk having the safety system shut everything down to protect you from your dishwasher, microwave, etc from burning your house down when their pretty digital control panels short circuit from erratic power flow.

 

[Shelzin]

No they were not running at 100% of sunny warm day capacity. Texas infrastructure is built to work on 110° not 10° days. That is true of all their utilities, including water gas and electric. The rolling black outs were necessary to keep the grid stabilized. They had to shed demand on the grid in order to keep the people who were producing from tripping into automatic shutdowns. All modern grids have points at which they will trip off. If there is too much supply, they trip generation off to keep things from melting if the excess cannot be routed somewhere else (happens in Germany where they have to pay people to take electricity off the grid). When there is too little supply to meet demand, they ether have to create the rolling blackouts or risk having the safety system shut everything down to protect you from your dishwasher, microwave, etc from burning your house down when their pretty digital control panels short circuit from erratic power flow.

That's not what they are claiming. They are claiming they could have given the electricity without the rolling black outs, they just could not do it under current regulations.

 

[Dana7360]

I'm not surprised by this.

I knew that deregulation and privatization was a horrible idea. For many reasons.

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit. It always leaves the American consumer with no recourse to when that private company and their greed end up killing people as it did in Texas.

Texans have paid 28 billion dollars more in energy than they would have if they had not deregulated and privatized.

We didn't deregulate privatize in my state. We have only one electricity provider. The Public Utility District. I live in PUD number 1.

We control that energy. We the people hire the heads of the PUD. Not any politician. The heads of PUD have to be elected by the people and have to answer directly to the people.

Not some crony hired by a politician whose only motivation is greed.

The rates can't be increased without asking for the increase and honestly justifying that increase. The increase isn't decided by a greedy private company, the people own it so it's the people who decide if there's an increase.

The result is we have more energy than we use so we sell it for a profit to other states.

We have the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

We also don't have people dying because a greedy private energy company didn't do the right thing and winterize nor do we end up with electric bills in the thousands when there's a spike in electric use.

The people who bought into the deregulation and privatization were duped.

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

Texas’s deregulated electricity market left millions in the dark last week. For the past 20 years, its consumers have paid more for their electricity than state residents who are served by traditional utilities, a WSJ investigation found.

www.wsj.com

Deregulation is failed conservative fiscal dogma – reckless, irresponsible, and unwarranted.

I can't agree with you more.

 

[Shelzin]

If possible, should we peacefully split the country?

Question: "WTF does that have to do with this topic?" Answer: Everything. Do you have another stupid question to ask? You must be the stupid one. The topic is about dividing the country, and he chimed in with some stupid race comment. There are plenty of race topics on USMB for shit like...

www.usmessageboard.com

Not attacking you here. It sucks that I have to start out a post that way, but the setup to this post was obviously hostile. I'm not trying to be, even if the other poster may have been.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT%2002.14.2021.pdf

According to ERCOT, the measures taken by ERCOT and other state agencies may not prove sufficient to avoid rotating outages of as much as 4,000 MW. Moreover, 1 ERCOT, Grid Operator Requests Energy Conservation for System Reliability, www.ercot.com/news/releases/show/225151. Department of Energy Order No. 202-21-1 Page 2 of 4 ERCOT has been alerted that numerous generation units will be unable to operate at full capacity without violating federal air quality or other permit limitations.

The link given suggests that ERCOT could have kept the grid up and going without the roaming blackouts, or shutdown of any kind, it just couldn't do it without violating "federal air quality or other permit limitations." And thus David Huizenga the Acting Secretary of Energy said they could not.

Do you believe that not allowing these generation units to produce more power was right move over those two/three days?

 

[odanny]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

It’s a fucking emergency you moron

 

[Dana7360]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

It’s a fucking emergency you moron

Seriously.

They don't have power.

Biden sent them generators for power.

Now they complain.

They would have complained if Biden had not sent help.

 

[Shelzin]

It's amazing what people absolutely refuse to read.

 

[Magnus]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

Yeah, hilarious. Biden should have skipped town to play golf and let the Texans suffer. That's what your fuhrer would have done, right?

 

[Nostra]

Consumers were offered wonderful rates. I got calls all the time. How can you say no?

But in the fine print there is a catch. You have to pay market rates for energy. If there is a crisis, you have to pay up.

Lies.

You can lock in rates for years in Texas.

Power to choose Texas | Compare Electric Rates | ChooseTexasPower

Exercise your power to choose Texas energy and learn about the history of energy deregulation. Choose your Texas energy provider and save.

www.choosetexaspower.org

 

[Nostra]

I'm not surprised by this.

I knew that deregulation and privatization was a horrible idea. For many reasons.

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit. It always leaves the American consumer with no recourse to when that private company and their greed end up killing people as it did in Texas.

Texans have paid 28 billion dollars more in energy than they would have if they had not deregulated and privatized.

We didn't deregulate privatize in my state. We have only one electricity provider. The Public Utility District. I live in PUD number 1.

We control that energy. We the people hire the heads of the PUD. Not any politician. The heads of PUD have to be elected by the people and have to answer directly to the people.

Not some crony hired by a politician whose only motivation is greed.

The rates can't be increased without asking for the increase and honestly justifying that increase. The increase isn't decided by a greedy private company, the people own it so it's the people who decide if there's an increase.

The result is we have more energy than we use so we sell it for a profit to other states.

We have the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

We also don't have people dying because a greedy private energy company didn't do the right thing and winterize nor do we end up with electric bills in the thousands when there's a spike in electric use.

The people who bought into the deregulation and privatization were duped.

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

Texas’s deregulated electricity market left millions in the dark last week. For the past 20 years, its consumers have paid more for their electricity than state residents who are served by traditional utilities, a WSJ investigation found.

www.wsj.com

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit.

So when government does something, it's cheaper.....because there's no profit?

Any backup for your idea?

Fauci makes far less than a good oral surgeon in CA

Still overpaid.

 

[rac123]

I'm not surprised by this.

I knew that deregulation and privatization was a horrible idea. For many reasons.

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit. It always leaves the American consumer with no recourse to when that private company and their greed end up killing people as it did in Texas.

Texans have paid 28 billion dollars more in energy than they would have if they had not deregulated and privatized.

We didn't deregulate privatize in my state. We have only one electricity provider. The Public Utility District. I live in PUD number 1.

We control that energy. We the people hire the heads of the PUD. Not any politician. The heads of PUD have to be elected by the people and have to answer directly to the people.

Not some crony hired by a politician whose only motivation is greed.

The rates can't be increased without asking for the increase and honestly justifying that increase. The increase isn't decided by a greedy private company, the people own it so it's the people who decide if there's an increase.

The result is we have more energy than we use so we sell it for a profit to other states.

We have the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

We also don't have people dying because a greedy private energy company didn't do the right thing and winterize nor do we end up with electric bills in the thousands when there's a spike in electric use.

The people who bought into the deregulation and privatization were duped.

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

Texas’s deregulated electricity market left millions in the dark last week. For the past 20 years, its consumers have paid more for their electricity than state residents who are served by traditional utilities, a WSJ investigation found.

www.wsj.com

There’s so many historical examples of corporations putting profit over people , like ten year old boys working coal mines , like PCBs in the Hudson River, like the Triangle Waste shirt fire , the list long and sad and we can now add the tragedy in Texas to this sad American story. Not to mention the most horrific corporate enterprise which included owning human beings and the four year massacre to end it.

 

[Staidhup]

So when everything is warm and cozy life is good.

 

[DudleySmith]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

It’s a fucking emergency you moron

Caused in part by wasting money on wind powered piles of junk, i.e. 'Green New Deal' rubbish, you tard.

 

[DudleySmith]

I'm not surprised by this.

I knew that deregulation and privatization was a horrible idea. For many reasons.

What the republicans don't seem to understand is when you privatize it always costs more because there has to be a profit. It always leaves the American consumer with no recourse to when that private company and their greed end up killing people as it did in Texas.

Texans have paid 28 billion dollars more in energy than they would have if they had not deregulated and privatized.

We didn't deregulate privatize in my state. We have only one electricity provider. The Public Utility District. I live in PUD number 1.

We control that energy. We the people hire the heads of the PUD. Not any politician. The heads of PUD have to be elected by the people and have to answer directly to the people.

Not some crony hired by a politician whose only motivation is greed.

The rates can't be increased without asking for the increase and honestly justifying that increase. The increase isn't decided by a greedy private company, the people own it so it's the people who decide if there's an increase.

The result is we have more energy than we use so we sell it for a profit to other states.

We have the second lowest electric rates in the nation.

We also don't have people dying because a greedy private energy company didn't do the right thing and winterize nor do we end up with electric bills in the thousands when there's a spike in electric use.

The people who bought into the deregulation and privatization were duped.

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

Texas’s deregulated electricity market left millions in the dark last week. For the past 20 years, its consumers have paid more for their electricity than state residents who are served by traditional utilities, a WSJ investigation found.

www.wsj.com

There’s so many historical examples of corporations putting profit over people , like ten year old boys working coal mines , like PCBs in the Hudson River, like the Triangle Waste shirt fire , the list long and sad and we can now add the tragedy in Texas to this sad American story. Not to mention the most horrific corporate enterprise which included owning human beings and the four year massacre to end it.

Yes, we really believe you sit around all day contemplating how horrible white people are and how wonderful you are for being so fucking Woke N Stuff.

 

[DudleySmith]

A bit off topic. but Chairman Biden, aka Mr. Green New Deal, sent Texas a bunch of new generators ... all of them diesel powered .... hilarious stuff.

Yeah, hilarious. Biden should have skipped town to play golf and let the Texans suffer. That's what your fuhrer would have done, right?

Oh gosh, a reference to Der Fuhrer! What wit! What jenyus! Hey, that must mean Trump was a Nazi N Stuff!

Biden didn't do jack shit, fuckwad, he just plays you idiot dopers like drums and you eat it up.