tankless water heater?

[strollingbones]

any one have any experience with them

 

[Baruch Menachem]

They are common in europe. They are a lot cheaper to operate, but they don't really heat the water that well. At least, the one I have experience of didn't, but it was really small.

The drawback is the water flows through it too fast to really absorb heat well, and you can't leave the heating element on beyond the time you use it, as that would be dangerous.

The one I saw had a single tube that bent four times and then there was a row of gas jets under the four bottom bends.

It could heat enough water to make it work for a sink, but not for a shower or a bath.

I saw it in Russia back in 1989 and 1993

 

[bripat9643]

They are common in europe. They are a lot cheaper to operate, but they don't really heat the water that well. At least, the one I have experience of didn't, but it was really small.

The drawback is the water flows through it too fast to really absorb heat well, and you can't leave the heating element on beyond the time you use it, as that would be dangerous.

The one I saw had a single tube that bent four times and then there was a row of gas jets under the four bottom bends.

It could heat enough water to make it work for a sink, but not for a shower or a bath.

I saw it in Russia back in 1989 and 1993

Simple solution: make it bigger.

 

[del]

i had one installed when i upgraded the heating system at my church and it works really well. i was afraid it would be slow to warm and then not warm enough, but it rocks.
we also got a rebate (actual money, not a tax credit) for purchasing it, but i think that was a state program, not fed.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

In places where they are common, that really isn't much of an option. They are for small apartments usually.
Here is a picture of one from a Japanese Anime. It is the white box over the sink.

And it looks like this one, like the kind of thing common in Britain has a coin operated feature.

Do remember, you are only heating the water you will use as you use it. That makes it real cheap. The usual American style water here you heat large amounts of water for a long time and never use the heat. One of the reasons it is so popular in East Europe and Asia. American Energy use is very profligate as it is so cheap. If we had to pay usual world prices, we might be using these things too.

 

[The Gadfly]

In places where they are common, that really isn't much of an option. They are for small apartments usually.
Here is a picture of one from a Japanese Anime. It is the white box over the sink.

And it looks like this one, like the kind of thing common in Britain has a coin operated feature.

Do remember, you are only heating the water you will use as you use it. That makes it real cheap. The usual American style water here you heat large amounts of water for a long time and never use the heat. One of the reasons it is so popular in East Europe and Asia. American Energy use is very profligate as it is so cheap. If we had to pay usual world prices, we might be using these things too.

They come in different sizes. I use two for a four-bath two-story house, and they work extremely well. Definitely cheaper on natural gas than the tank variety, and without the worry of a leaking tank damaging your home. You also never run out of hot water while taking a shower, even if three other people showered right before you. The projected service life on the things is also longer than a conventional gas water heater. The only draw back is a short wait couple of minute, max) for the water to get hot enough at the faucet, and a somewhat higher initial cost to install. You'll typically recoup the extra cost in gas savings over three to five years, at current rates.

 

[whitehall]

Cold showers, dim rooms lit by murcury bulbs, cold winters with high fuel costs. Welcome to the brave new world of greenies/socialists.

 

[Big Fitz]

Water heating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This should help. Covers the things I've heard about them from someone who's had one. They were not happy with it's performance.

 

[asterism]

any one have any experience with them

I've got a small electric one for one of my bathrooms and it works well. The water is so hot I had to adjust the temperature down so the kids wouldn't get scalded.

 

[strollingbones]

i have an 80 gal tank....but now there are only two of us....i am thinking i need to down size....the electric bill and all.......here is my main concern....my current water heater is over 28 years old...we have done zero to it...zero......no elements replaced nothing...i am thinking a 50 gal might do us now....

 

[Truthmatters]

The people I know who have them LOVE them

 

[Douger]

This is what I use.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Lorenzetti-Advanced-Tankless-Showerhead-Electric/dp/B005D5QV4G[/ame]

 

[Mad Scientist]

They've been using tankless water heaters in Japan for as long as I can remember. They work just fine.

 

[Douger]

Two of the biggest farces foisted on murkins has been Hot Water heaters and box springs. Complete idiocy. Wall paper and carpet are also high on that list.

 

[flacaltenn]

I believe the tankless heaters make sense for small in-law units, maybe cabins, rentals, and other places. But when you consider that I heat water for nearly 5000 sq ft with one device for less than $10/month (nat gas) the economy and ecology saving can't be that great. Especially because you have to install multiple devices all over the house and in the US -- most of them are electric not gas.

The efficiency of a tanked water heater is not that bad because heat is stored fairly efficiently. Especially if you add additional insulation to the tank and turn down the temp.. The efficiency comes from "instant on" and not having to run water for a couple minutes to flush the pipe path with hot water. Not a problem with a daily shower or laundry or auto dish washers.

 

[strollingbones]

hubby says that too abotu insulating and all......the water heater is in the cold ass basement

 

[del]

Two of the biggest farces foisted on murkins has been Hot Water heaters and box springs. Complete idiocy. Wall paper and carpet are also high on that list.

yeah, i bet once you make the leap of faith and start living in a refrigerator box in some third world hellhole, a lot of this stuff, like indoor plumbing, looks pretty fucking silly. good for you, doogie!

 

[eots]

any one have any experience with them

I Had a propane flash heater for water on my boat worked great for showers

 

[eots]

Two of the biggest farces foisted on murkins has been Hot Water heaters and box springs. Complete idiocy. Wall paper and carpet are also high on that list.

carpets are just gross disease traps...and tons and tons of it goes into landfills
hardwood with rugs is the only way to go

 

[zzzz]

With anything like that I always check out Consumer Reports because they are usually pretty good at sniffing out scams and such. Here is what they had to say:

Heating water accounts for up to 30 percent of the average home's energy budget. Some makers of gas-fired tankless water heaters claim their products can cut your energy costs up to half over regular storage heaters. So is it time to switch?

Probably not. Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models. Moreover, our online poll of 1,200 readers revealed wide variations in installation costs, energy savings, and satisfaction.

With the help of an outside lab, we pitted Takagi and Noritz gas-fired tankless water heaters against three storage water heaters. We didn't test electric tankless heaters because many can't deliver hot water fast enough to replace a conventional water heater if ground*water is cold. Even in areas with warm groundwater, most homeowners would need to upgrade their electrical service to power a whole-house tankless model.

Our tests simulated daily use of 76 to 78 gallons of hot water. That's the equivalent of taking three showers, washing one laun*dry load, running the dishwasher once (six cycles), and turning on the faucet nine times, for a total of 19 draws. While that's considered heavy use compared with the standard Department of Energy test, we think it more accurately represents an average family's habits. We also ran more than 45,000 gallons of very hard water through a tanked model and a Rinnai tankless model to simulate about 11 years of regular use.

Here's what else we found:

Water runs hot and cold
Manufacturers of tankless water heaters are fond of touting their products' ability to provide an endless amount of hot water. But inconsistent water temperatures were a common complaint among our poll respondents. When you turn on the faucet, tankless models feed in some cold water to gauge how big a temperature rise is needed. If there's cool water lingering in your pipes, you'll receive a momentary "cold-water sandwich" between the old and new hot water. And a tankless water heater's burner might not ignite when you try to get just a trickle of hot water for, say, shaving.

Nor do tankless water heaters deliver hot water instantaneously. It takes time to heat the water to the target temperature, and just like storage water heaters, any cold water in the pipes needs to be pushed out. And tankless models' electric controls mean you'll also lose hot water during a power outage.

Up-front costs are high
The tankless water heaters we tested cost $800 to $1,150, compared with $300 to $480 for the regular storage-tank types. Tankless models need electrical outlets for their fan and electronics, upgraded gas pipes, and a new ventilation system. That can bring average installation costs to $1,200, compared with $300 for storage-tank models.

Tankless units might need more care
During our long-term testing, an indicator on the tankless model warned of scale buildup. We paid $334 for special valves and a plumber to flush out the water heater with vinegar. Many industry pros recommend that tankless models be serviced once a year by a qualified technician. Calcium buildup can decrease efficiency, restrict water flow, and damage tankless models. Experts suggest installing a water softener if your water hardness is above 11 grains per gallon. Ignoring this advice can shorten your warranty.

Efficient storage models are pricey
We also tested the $1,400 Vertex, a high-efficiency storage water heater by A.O. Smith. The manufacturer claims its installation costs are similar to a regular storage model. But its high cost offsets much of the roughly $70 per year the Vertex will save you. Instead, we recommend buying a conventional storage water heater with a 9- or 12-year warranty. In previous tests, we found that those models generally had thicker insulation, bigger burners or larger heating elements, and better corrosion-fighting metal rods called anodes.

Are tankless water heaters a worthwhile investment?