Zone1 Statue of Black Educator Replaces Confederate General in U.S. Capitol

[flacaltenn]

The taliban has nothing to do with this. So why don't you follow your own rules and stop derailing a thread that's honoring a true American patriot, Mary McLeod Bethune.

Check the record here. I dropped in to COMMENT on Mary Bethune. I did so twice. And just couldn't pass up YOUR statements that "the Confederacy is not American history". Starting at post #7 -- a LONG time before I dropped in.

I might be one of very few that DID comment on Bethune Cookman college. And since the title INCLUDES "Confederate General in the US Capitol" -- it's probably within scope. Up to YOU to tell us WHY Mary Bethune's legacy of education of generations of black students, is not MUCH BETTER than a stinky ole statue.

As for George Floyd and his monuments -- AGAIN -- dying as a martyr might deserve a statue or 2. But Mary Bethune left a much more influential legacy.

 

[IM2]

How about we learn the complete history of America instead of arguing about keeping a fabrication alive about a bunch of traitors who seceded, formed their own nation, started a war and lost?

That's what the taliban does. And so do other types of fascist regimes.

 

[Lisa558]

How about we learn the complete history of America instead of arguing about keeping a fabrication alive about a bunch of traitors who seceded, formed their own nation, started a war and lost?

That's what the taliban does. And so do other types of fascist regimes.

We learned about slavery and Jim Crow and how blacks were brought over here in chains. We learned how England - not the colonies - started a war, and lost, and that our ancestors declared our independence as a new country. That you think England won the Revolutionary War - and want to teach kids that - is sad indeed.

It’s also very sad that there are “Americans” who want to teach children to hate their country - and by lying to them about it. Instead, let’s get back to basic academics. Kids are “graduating” from high school barely able to write a decent sentence, do simple arithmetic, or find their own state on a map.

 

[IM2]

We learned about slavery and Jim Crow and how blacks were brought over here in chains. We learned how England - not the colonies - started a war, and lost, and that our ancestors declared our independence as a new country. That you think England won the Revolutionary War - and want to teach kids that - is sad indeed.

It’s also very sad that there are “Americans” who want to teach children to hate their country - and by lying to them about it. Instead, let’s get back to basic academics. Kids are “graduating” from high school barely able to write a decent sentence, do simple arithmetic, or find their own state on a map.

Nobody thinks the British won the war but you.

We have been taught lies and it's time that stopped.

 

[Lisa558]

Nobody thinks the British won the war but you.

We have been taught lies and it's time that stopped.

So Cornwallis surrendered because his side won?

(Nobody thinks the British won the Revolutionary War but you. You sound ridiculous.)

 

[Lisa558]

Check the record here. I dropped in to COMMENT on Mary Bethune. I did so twice. And just couldn't pass up YOUR statements that "the Confederacy is not American history". Starting at post #7 -- a LONG time before I dropped in.

I might be one of very few that DID comment on Bethune Cookman college. And since the title INCLUDES "Confederate General in the US Capitol" -- it's probably within scope. Up to YOU to tell us WHY Mary Bethune's legacy of education of generations of black students, is not MUCH BETTER than a stinky ole statue.

As for George Floyd and his monuments -- AGAIN -- dying as a martyr might deserve a statue or 2. But Mary Bethune left a much more influential legacy.

Just an aside, Floyd was not a martyr. A martyr is someone who risks his life - and loses it - for a cause, such as the firefighters who ran up the stairs of the Would Trade Center, knowing they may never come out.

 

[flacaltenn]

Just an aside, Floyd was not a martyr. A martyr is someone who risks his life - and loses it - for a cause, such as the firefighters who ran up the stairs of the Would Trade Center, knowing they may never come out.

Never thought much about qualifications of martyr. Seems like the difference between victim and martyr isn't up to the person who sacrifices. It's decided by other survivors depending on the evil of the cause of the death. So I'll stay out of trying to determine the honor.

In this case, there was a drug dealer, harsh environment, and a cop (some cops) denying this guy his life. That's pretty evil in many circles.

It's like the difference between the story of Masada and the Alamo.

Took a whack at what others think and maybe there's a LOT of confusion on the job qualifications of "a martyr". Too many explanations of the diff are RELIGIOUSLY based. Rather than a BROADER definition of all the societal evils that can take lives.

 

[Lisa558]

Never thought much about qualifications of martyr. Seems like the difference between victim and martyr isn't up to the person who sacrifices. It's decided by other survivors depending on the evil of the cause. So I'll stay out of trying to determine the honor.

In this case, there was a drug dealer, harsh environment, and a cop (some cops) denying this guy his life. That's pretty evil in many circles.

It's like the difference between the story of Masada and the Alamo. Took a whack at what others think and maybe there's a LOT of confusion on the job qualifications of "a martyr". Too many explanations of the diff are RELIGIOUSLY based. Rather than a BROADER definition of all the societal evils that can take lives.

We are way off-topic, but being a martyr has nothing to do with the evil of the act. It has to do with the altruism of someone who willingly risks his life for a cause - usually related to religious beliefs, but not always. Floyd doesn’t qualify as he did not willingly sacrifice his life.

Martyr | Definition, Examples, Religions, & Facts

Martyr, one who voluntarily suffers death rather than deny their religion by words or deeds; such action is afforded special, institutionalized recognition in most major religions of the world. The term may also refer to anyone who sacrifices their life or something of great value for the sake...

www.britannica.com

 

[flacaltenn]

We are way off-topic, but being a martyr has nothing to do with the evil of the act. It has to do with the altruism of someone who willingly risks his life for a cause - usually related to religious beliefs, but not always. Floyd doesn’t qualify as he did not willingly sacrifice his life.

Martyr | Definition, Examples, Religions, & Facts

Martyr, one who voluntarily suffers death rather than deny their religion by words or deeds; such action is afforded special, institutionalized recognition in most major religions of the world. The term may also refer to anyone who sacrifices their life or something of great value for the sake...

www.britannica.com

Not that simple to define. There's no INSTITUTION responsible for acreditating martyrs. And like I said -- the Britannica definition comes at the definition using RELIGIOUS beliefs or principles.

Any group (even Al Queada or Hamas) can have certified martyrs. It's up to the SURVIVORS to determine. Not up to individuals outside of the group affected. That SEEMS to be the reality of it.

 

[Lisa558]

Not that simple to define. There's no INSTITUTION responsible for acreditating martyrs. And like I said -- the Britannica definition comes at the definition using RELIGIOUS beliefs or principles.

Any group (even Al Queada or Hamas) can have certified martyrs. It's up to the SURVIVORS to determine. Not up to individuals outside of the group affected. That SEEMS to be the reality of it.

But that doesn’t mean someone is in actuality a martyr. He can be to some people, but they can be wrong. If Anne Heche‘s son calls her a martyr, does that make her so? If the wife of that guy who crashed through the barricade at the Capitol and then shot himself calls him a martyr, is he really? If a man crawls into my window tonight, Gd forbid, and holds a knife to my throat, and I grab the gun and kill him, is he a martyr because his kids call him that?

 

[flacaltenn]

But that doesn’t mean someone is in actuality a martyr. He can be to some people, but they can be wrong. If Anne Heche‘s son calls her a martyr, does that make her so? If the wife of that guy who crashed through the barricade at the Capitol and then shot himself calls him a martyr, is he really? If a man crawls into my window tonight, Gd forbid, and holds a knife to my throat, and I grab the gun and kill him, is he a martyr because his kids call him that?

I'm not sure. Dont think ANYONE is sure. The CAUSE is important. Not many deaths support "a cause". It may only BE important to some. But you can't CANCEL that award.

Personally, I'd rather go after revoking all these prestigious awards that USED to mean something -- like a Nobel Peace prize, "person of the year" or Pulitizers that are degrading their own prestige.

 

[badbob85037]

Imagine saying that george floyd doesn't deserve a statue because he was a bad bad man, but that rapists and slave owners should tho. If it were up to me, I'd change all the dollar bills, and put a wrecking ball to rushmore.

Maybe that's why you are not running things.

 

[AZrailwhale]

They always forget that part of the confederacy. They had slavery written in the confederate constitution. Slavery was not going to end in 10 years. The Corwin Amendment passed the United States congress itself and that would have been a constitutional amendment protecting slavery.

Slavery everywhere in the northern hemisphere was extinct by 1888. It was no longer economically feasible in the face of ever more mechanized farming methods. The soil on the plantations was close to exhaustion. The only way slavery could have survived in the Confederacy would have been for the Confederates to turn conquistador and try to conquer Mexico and Central America. I doubt the Confederacy could manage that. Historically slavery was only profitable with an endless supply of new and cheap or free slaves. With the Royal and US navies interdicting the maritime slave trades that supply didn’t exist.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I said the confederacy was not part of American history. It has its own history that ended when Lee surrendered. It should not be considered American history, it should not be celebrated, there should be no monuments built or honors given, and it should be pointed out that slavery was written in their constitution.

So the Saxons and Angles aren’t part of British history because they lost wars and their societies were absorbed by others? How about the Christian citizens of Constantinople? should their history be erased by the Turkish conquerers. Or the Carthaginians who Rome destroyed?

 

[Unkotare]

The confederacy was a nation of it's own....

No, it was not.

 

[Mac-7]

Don’t let the racist right derail the thread with lies about the ‘confederacy.’

This thread attacked a white Confederate general, calling him a traitor and demeaning his service to America

So it was never just about a black school teacher

 

[themirrorthief]

The confederacy was a nation of it's own that waged war against the U.S. and lost. That IS what happened, so the confederacy is not American history. It is Confederate history therefore a statues or anything else honoring traitors need to be removed.

Apparently, you are the stupid one. But it doesn't take much intelligence to be a WS.

when the democrat party formed the confederacy to protect their right to own negro slaves they were still americans, not mexicns, o russians dear...ps try harder