What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Zone1 Statue of Black Educator Replaces Confederate General in U.S. Capitol

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
66,649
Reaction score
21,854
Points
2,250
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
The taliban has nothing to do with this. So why don't you follow your own rules and stop derailing a thread that's honoring a true American patriot, Mary McLeod Bethune.

Check the record here. I dropped in to COMMENT on Mary Bethune. I did so twice. And just couldn't pass up YOUR statements that "the Confederacy is not American history". Starting at post #7 -- a LONG time before I dropped in.

I might be one of very few that DID comment on Bethune Cookman college. And since the title INCLUDES "Confederate General in the US Capitol" -- it's probably within scope. Up to YOU to tell us WHY Mary Bethune's legacy of education of generations of black students, is not MUCH BETTER than a stinky ole statue.

As for George Floyd and his monuments -- AGAIN -- dying as a martyr might deserve a statue or 2. But Mary Bethune left a much more influential legacy.
 

IM2

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
61,593
Reaction score
20,350
Points
2,290
How about we learn the complete history of America instead of arguing about keeping a fabrication alive about a bunch of traitors who seceded, formed their own nation, started a war and lost?

That's what the taliban does. And so do other types of fascist regimes.
 

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
12,882
Reaction score
13,087
Points
2,268
How about we learn the complete history of America instead of arguing about keeping a fabrication alive about a bunch of traitors who seceded, formed their own nation, started a war and lost?

That's what the taliban does. And so do other types of fascist regimes.
We learned about slavery and Jim Crow and how blacks were brought over here in chains. We learned how England - not the colonies - started a war, and lost, and that our ancestors declared our independence as a new country. That you think England won the Revolutionary War - and want to teach kids that - is sad indeed.

It’s also very sad that there are “Americans” who want to teach children to hate their country - and by lying to them about it. Instead, let’s get back to basic academics. Kids are “graduating” from high school barely able to write a decent sentence, do simple arithmetic, or find their own state on a map.
 

IM2

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
61,593
Reaction score
20,350
Points
2,290
We learned about slavery and Jim Crow and how blacks were brought over here in chains. We learned how England - not the colonies - started a war, and lost, and that our ancestors declared our independence as a new country. That you think England won the Revolutionary War - and want to teach kids that - is sad indeed.

It’s also very sad that there are “Americans” who want to teach children to hate their country - and by lying to them about it. Instead, let’s get back to basic academics. Kids are “graduating” from high school barely able to write a decent sentence, do simple arithmetic, or find their own state on a map.
Nobody thinks the British won the war but you.

We have been taught lies and it's time that stopped.
 

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
12,882
Reaction score
13,087
Points
2,268
Nobody thinks the British won the war but you.

We have been taught lies and it's time that stopped.
So Cornwallis surrendered because his side won?

(Nobody thinks the British won the Revolutionary War but you. You sound ridiculous.)
 
Last edited:

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
12,882
Reaction score
13,087
Points
2,268
Check the record here. I dropped in to COMMENT on Mary Bethune. I did so twice. And just couldn't pass up YOUR statements that "the Confederacy is not American history". Starting at post #7 -- a LONG time before I dropped in.

I might be one of very few that DID comment on Bethune Cookman college. And since the title INCLUDES "Confederate General in the US Capitol" -- it's probably within scope. Up to YOU to tell us WHY Mary Bethune's legacy of education of generations of black students, is not MUCH BETTER than a stinky ole statue.

As for George Floyd and his monuments -- AGAIN -- dying as a martyr might deserve a statue or 2. But Mary Bethune left a much more influential legacy.
Just an aside, Floyd was not a martyr. A martyr is someone who risks his life - and loses it - for a cause, such as the firefighters who ran up the stairs of the Would Trade Center, knowing they may never come out.
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
66,649
Reaction score
21,854
Points
2,250
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
Just an aside, Floyd was not a martyr. A martyr is someone who risks his life - and loses it - for a cause, such as the firefighters who ran up the stairs of the Would Trade Center, knowing they may never come out.

Never thought much about qualifications of martyr. Seems like the difference between victim and martyr isn't up to the person who sacrifices. It's decided by other survivors depending on the evil of the cause of the death. So I'll stay out of trying to determine the honor. :safetocomeoutff:

In this case, there was a drug dealer, harsh environment, and a cop (some cops) denying this guy his life. That's pretty evil in many circles.

It's like the difference between the story of Masada and the Alamo.

Took a whack at what others think and maybe there's a LOT of confusion on the job qualifications of "a martyr". Too many explanations of the diff are RELIGIOUSLY based. Rather than a BROADER definition of all the societal evils that can take lives.
 

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
12,882
Reaction score
13,087
Points
2,268
Never thought much about qualifications of martyr. Seems like the difference between victim and martyr isn't up to the person who sacrifices. It's decided by other survivors depending on the evil of the cause. So I'll stay out of trying to determine the honor. :safetocomeoutff:

In this case, there was a drug dealer, harsh environment, and a cop (some cops) denying this guy his life. That's pretty evil in many circles.

It's like the difference between the story of Masada and the Alamo. Took a whack at what others think and maybe there's a LOT of confusion on the job qualifications of "a martyr". Too many explanations of the diff are RELIGIOUSLY based. Rather than a BROADER definition of all the societal evils that can take lives.
We are way off-topic, but being a martyr has nothing to do with the evil of the act. It has to do with the altruism of someone who willingly risks his life for a cause - usually related to religious beliefs, but not always. Floyd doesn’t qualify as he did not willingly sacrifice his life.

 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
66,649
Reaction score
21,854
Points
2,250
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
We are way off-topic, but being a martyr has nothing to do with the evil of the act. It has to do with the altruism of someone who willingly risks his life for a cause - usually related to religious beliefs, but not always. Floyd doesn’t qualify as he did not willingly sacrifice his life.


Not that simple to define. There's no INSTITUTION responsible for acreditating martyrs. And like I said -- the Britannica definition comes at the definition using RELIGIOUS beliefs or principles.

Any group (even Al Queada or Hamas) can have certified martyrs. It's up to the SURVIVORS to determine. Not up to individuals outside of the group affected. That SEEMS to be the reality of it.
 

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
12,882
Reaction score
13,087
Points
2,268
Not that simple to define. There's no INSTITUTION responsible for acreditating martyrs. And like I said -- the Britannica definition comes at the definition using RELIGIOUS beliefs or principles.

Any group (even Al Queada or Hamas) can have certified martyrs. It's up to the SURVIVORS to determine. Not up to individuals outside of the group affected. That SEEMS to be the reality of it.
But that doesn’t mean someone is in actuality a martyr. He can be to some people, but they can be wrong. If Anne Heche‘s son calls her a martyr, does that make her so? If the wife of that guy who crashed through the barricade at the Capitol and then shot himself calls him a martyr, is he really? If a man crawls into my window tonight, Gd forbid, and holds a knife to my throat, and I grab the gun and kill him, is he a martyr because his kids call him that?
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
66,649
Reaction score
21,854
Points
2,250
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
But that doesn’t mean someone is in actuality a martyr. He can be to some people, but they can be wrong. If Anne Heche‘s son calls her a martyr, does that make her so? If the wife of that guy who crashed through the barricade at the Capitol and then shot himself calls him a martyr, is he really? If a man crawls into my window tonight, Gd forbid, and holds a knife to my throat, and I grab the gun and kill him, is he a martyr because his kids call him that?

I'm not sure. Dont think ANYONE is sure. The CAUSE is important. Not many deaths support "a cause". It may only BE important to some. But you can't CANCEL that award.

Personally, I'd rather go after revoking all these prestigious awards that USED to mean something -- like a Nobel Peace prize, "person of the year" or Pulitizers that are degrading their own prestige.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$55.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top