CDZ Squatter Rights

[Onyx]

Even before I was an anarchist, I supported squatter rights.

Human beings have an unequivocal right to live on land that is not being used. Human beings have no right to claim ownership over what they do not personally sustain themselves.

 

[GLASNOST]

"You are not allowed to be here" makes no sense to me .... and I'm not even an anarchist. "Loitering" is another one. In my country there is no such thing as "loitering"

 

[Onyx]

"You are not allowed to be here" makes no sense to me .... and I'm not even an anarchist. "Loitering" is another one. In my country there is no such thing as "loitering"

From a general principle POV, I understand not wanting some vagrant off the streets to break into your house and slip into your bed.

Telling someone that they cannot be on land that you are not operating personally or economically seems outrageous and wrong. The concept that men can own large territories of the earth is already questionable to begin with.

 

[emilynghiem]

Even before I was an anarchist, I supported squatter rights.

Human beings have an unequivocal right to live on land that is not being used. Human beings have no right to claim ownership over what they do not personally sustain themselves.

Look up Hernado DeSoto the Peruvian economist who said the key to
equality is recognizing ownership by the workers of the land instead of herding them around like migrants.
Hernando de Soto's Biography
ILD - Institute for Liberty and Democracy

The whole rental vs. ownership mentality is the difference in class
between the victims and the victors. The workers parties argue there can be
no peace between workers and owners; these have to become one to be equal.

There are co-ops set up by Greens and other activists in sustainable/cooperative economy
where they train farmers and workers to own and manage their own co-ops.
(look up Ithaca HOURS. Paul Glover and the Greens who set up labor-based local currency)
Introducing HOUR Money
Paul Glover, community organizer

We also need to train people to own and manage their own community campuses,
cities or townships, and business districts if people are ever going to experience equality.

Wal-Mart has pulled out of many small towns, leaving a gap and an opportunity to take over.
Why not organize and finance jobs for Veterans to build factories or schools in the empty buildings and create
whole economies and campus towns in each district like that?

 

[Onyx]

The whole rental vs. ownership mentality is the difference in class
between the victims and the victors. The workers parties argue there can be
no peace between workers and owners; these have to become one to be equal.

There are co-ops set up by Greens and other activists in sustainable/cooperative economy
where they train farmers and workers to own and manage their own co-ops.
(look up Ithaca HOURS. Paul Glover and the Greens who set up labor-based local currency)
Introducing HOUR Money
Paul Glover, community organizer

We also need to train people to own and manage their own community campuses,
cities or townships, and business districts if people are ever going to experience equality.

This is what anarchism is about. Taking back control of our lives and redefining our communities in a way that is equitable socially and economically, without the need for rulers.

Community ethics, DIY, collective mutual organization, and direct action are inseparable from the anarchist movement.

 

[Lastamender]

Even before I was an anarchist, I supported squatter rights.

Human beings have an unequivocal right to live on land that is not being used. Human beings have no right to claim ownership over what they do not personally sustain themselves.

Glad you feel that way. Let them shit in your yard.

 

[Onyx]

Glad you feel that way. Let them shit in your yard.

Dogs do it already.

 

[emilynghiem]

The whole rental vs. ownership mentality is the difference in class
between the victims and the victors. The workers parties argue there can be
no peace between workers and owners; these have to become one to be equal.

There are co-ops set up by Greens and other activists in sustainable/cooperative economy
where they train farmers and workers to own and manage their own co-ops.
(look up Ithaca HOURS. Paul Glover and the Greens who set up labor-based local currency)
Introducing HOUR Money
Paul Glover, community organizer

We also need to train people to own and manage their own community campuses,
cities or townships, and business districts if people are ever going to experience equality.

This is what anarchism is about. Taking back control of our lives and redefining our communities in a way that is equitable socially and economically, without the need for rulers.

Community ethics, DIY, collective mutual organization, and direct action are inseparable from the anarchist movement.

Dear Onyx: As I have shared with my other anarchist friends,
all humanity is still governed by laws of nature.
What are you going to do, defy the laws of gravity? Of physics and nature?
Some laws come with how we are made.

For the minimal laws I would recommend, see http://www.ethics-commission.net
If people agree to just basic standards;
to respect free exercise of religion/free will/free choice/right to consent/dissent
this is equal executive power.
to respect free speech and expression of opinions, beliefs, interpretations etc
this is equal judicial power that inevitable involves religious freedom in value judgments
to respect freedom of the press and putting information, education, contracts and agreements/policies
in writing this is equal legislative power

All human beings come with all three powers.
and collectively this is supposed to be what govt coordinates in check and balance
with the other functions.

If we live by a local scale model of this, then all people need to check and balance
our powers, our thoughts/words/actions that are judicial/legislative/executive functions.

This is also called mind body and spirit.

So the minimum language I would use so people can communicate
grievances are basically in the Bill of Rights (plus 14th Amendment respecting
equal protection of the laws for all persons, so that people either inside or outside
govt must exercise equal respect and power if we are truly going to establish
Equal Justice Under Law)
the freedom of religion which interpreted openly equates to free will or free choice
Freedom of speech and freedom of the press
right to assemble and to petition EACH OTHER to redress grievances
(where people agree to take responsibility for being their own govt,
so we are in charge of redressing our own grievances directly)
in respecting democratic "due process" where
you do not judge or punish someone based on
your judgment, but go through a process of
addressing the person and reaching agreement how to work out the
conflict the wrongs and/or the restitution/correction as a mutual responsibility.

Even anarchists are human beings and will fall under these natural laws
as long as you live in a group, and there is a RELATIONSHIP
between the individual and the collective group.

As long as you have some means of mediating conflicts,
and redressing grievances, you can manage your own community
under your own local rules. I would recommend models used
by the Green for consensus decision making and process,
and some universities have consent contracts for sexual relations
to reduce risk of relationship abuse.

I have written up mediation agreements, where only if the other
person agrees to my standard of mediating all conflicts by consensus
to avoid legal actions and expenses could I maintain
relations with that person.

If you set up your own syndicate or community,
I would recommend building it around a campus structure
where you can train everyone in basic conflict resolution without "coercion."
The Real School in Houston used to teach noncoercive management.
But it takes everyone committing to that. to invest in building the community.
If your revenue depends on working outside that community,
the conflicts of interest tend to pull people away. Creditors or
employers that put more demands or conditions on loans or money
are going to get the priority over the community you are trying to build.

I've been trying to help restore the historic community of
Freedmen's Town, but the more we work for outside jobs
to get the money, it pulls resources out of the community.
We've been trying to bring support in to restore the original
campus plans for the district: http://www.campusplan.org
But even the people I bring in to help end up taking
more resources than they invest in because of higher demands outside.

If this was set up as a campus, then it can still be sustained
as people move in, up and out, like students participating
and contributing in a community before they graduate.

http://www.rightsfortheworkers.org

 

[Onyx]

As I have shared with my other anarchist friends,
all humanity is still governed by laws of nature.
What are you going to do, defy the laws of gravity? Of physics and nature?
Some laws come with how we are made.

I am fine with the laws of nature.

I am not okay with mortal rulers, which is what anarchists oppose.

 

[GLASNOST]

Glad you feel that way. Let them shit in your yard.

You obviously have not been around much. Not everyone who "squats" is 'shitting in someone's yard'.

 

[emilynghiem]

As I have shared with my other anarchist friends,
all humanity is still governed by laws of nature.
What are you going to do, defy the laws of gravity? Of physics and nature?
Some laws come with how we are made.

I am fine with the laws of nature.

I am not okay with mortal rulers, which is what anarchists oppose.

then learn the principles in the Bill of Rights and
have all the members of your community
enforce these themselves so you are acting as your
own government and managing your own resources and policies.

The same way our collective govt needs separate
functions to check and balance each other,
make sure you have people trained to manage
the different areas and help each other.

I'm finding some people are better as Executors
and leaders to get the physical work done.
Others are better at business and administration.
And those who support the personal counseling
and conflict resolution often need to be separate
from both in order to remain free and neutral/

If you can resolve your own conflicts,
then you will not become dependent on a
third party middle man to step in and tell both sides what to do.

So that's the key to independence,
redressing your own grievances,
and investing in your own development,
corrections and restitution to turn any
debts losses or waste into positive flow.

 

[Onyx]

Glad you feel that way. Let them shit in your yard.

You obviously have not been around much. Not everyone who "squats" is 'shitting in someone's yard'.

There is generally a negative perception associated with squatters. My favorite squatter band are the Inner Terrestrials from the UK.



What? Squatters have bands? Yep....

 

[emilynghiem]

"You are not allowed to be here" makes no sense to me .... and I'm not even an anarchist. "Loitering" is another one. In my country there is no such thing as "loitering"

From a general principle POV, I understand not wanting some vagrant off the streets to break into your house and slip into your bed.

Telling someone that they cannot be on land that you are not operating personally or economically seems outrageous and wrong. The concept that men can own large territories of the earth is already questionable to begin with.

yes and no, Onyx
I do believe that people need to experience ownership
to be equally empowered and to learn how much work it takes.

but if you go around teaching people have rights to the land without responsibilities,
you get a lot more people living off the work of the people working the land.
And just claim to be part of the group that has these rights, while letting the others do the work.

This has killed all the experimental groups I have ever seen
try to set up their own coops. There has to be a system of
reward for doing more of the work, and investing in.

Or else you will end up with some of the same free loaders
you are so against, thinking they can own something in name
without doing any of the work to invest in it.

This is, again, why I recommend the campus system.
if there are some people on the lower end of the learning curve,
they can still participate as "students" who depend on the mentorship
and resources of others while going through training and education.
but at some point you need to graduate and move up.
There must be a system of checking progress,
where if you take on the next level, then you get
more rewards and independence. but if you stay
dependent on others, you don't get as much choice of
your living resources, which are provided by sponsors who have that choice
how much they are willing to underwrite for you depending on your ability to learn
or contribute, in comparison with those who are working and
contributing on higher levels to afford more choices because they
earn their own resources and can invest them.

 

[Onyx]

then learn the principles in the Bill of Rights and
have all the members of your community
enforce these themselves so you are acting as your
own government and managing your own resources and policies.
.

Mate, I do not need some stupid piece of paper written by aristocrats to be free and self sufficient.

 

[Onyx]

I do believe that people need to experience ownership
to be equally empowered and to learn how much work it takes.

Or else you will end up with some of the same free loaders
you are so against, thinking they can own something in name
without doing any of the work to invest in it.

I am not in favor of communally owned property or gift economies.

I believe in a concept known as sustained ownership, which provides an effective and moral medium.

 

[emilynghiem]

then learn the principles in the Bill of Rights and
have all the members of your community
enforce these themselves so you are acting as your
own government and managing your own resources and policies.
.

Mate, I do not need some stupid piece of paper written by aristocrats to be free and self sufficient.

No it's not that.

These are the minimal language to teach people
PREXISTING laws of nature on how humans interact as social beings.

We all need due process of how to make decisions
when either there is a disagreement or there is a wrong committed.

That is human nature in action.

So I use these terms and principles as a tool to teach
people "conflict resolution" so you can manage
a group of people harmoniously, and remain in agreement.

It's like music exists on its own.
but if you learn to read and write music,
there is a system of notes and scales to capture what
we are singing and playing.

So it helps to be literate so you can
"get on the same page" with others and know
you are all following the same tune.

When you memorize the music,
you don't need to depend on the sheet music anymore.
it's just a tool to make sure all the people in
your choir know the same notes that you are using
to sing the songs in your repertoire.

 

[Grandma]

Such a nice little discussion you guys are having.

Here's a real life scenario:

I don't like any of the houses in my town. I plan on buying a double or triple lot and having a house custom built.

There's a sweet double lot in a great neighborhood, each section going for a song - I think I'll go there - BUT - the household to the north has an above-ground swimming pool on one of the lots. It's entirely possible they may claim squatters' rights.

Now I know this and will look into it before buying, but not everyone thinks of such things.

So, if someone buys both lots and wants to start building but the squatters sue, then what?

 

[emilynghiem]

I do believe that people need to experience ownership
to be equally empowered and to learn how much work it takes.

Or else you will end up with some of the same free loaders
you are so against, thinking they can own something in name
without doing any of the work to invest in it.

I am not in favor of communally owned property or gift economies.

I believe in a concept known as sustained ownership, which provides an effective and moral medium.

Cool whatever that is, I'd like to know more.

If you want to try out your management in Freedmen's Town
I'd be happy to do a fundraiser to create a paid internship or residency
where you can come in and apply your knowledge to develop the campus concepts.

I can connect you with either Green Party or Libertarian types who are very anarchist
but want to teach people to live independently which requires some educational program structure.

I have already asked a Green party coordinator who heads the anti-racism and diversity
committee at KPFT public radio for help to team up to develop this campus plan, in each district,
starting with Freedmen's Town.

So if you want to connect with the progressive public radio and create a historic community
settlement, we are currently trying to save 7-10 historic houses that are open to anyone
who wants to come in and help restore and use them for community outreach.
http://www.freedmenstown.com

let me know if you want to work locally where you are,
and we can still connect by radio, with an activist who has created a radio network for
black townships around the country, or if you are willing to relocate to Houston for
an internship we could create just for you and what you want to develop or train others in.

 

[Onyx]

Such a nice little discussion you guys are having.

Here's a real life scenario:

I don't like any of the houses in my town. I plan on buying a double or triple lot and having a house custom built.

There's a sweet double lot in a great neighborhood, each section going for a song - I think I'll go there - BUT - the household to the north has an above-ground swimming pool on one of the lots. It's entirely possible they may claim squatters' rights.

Now I know this and will look into it before buying, but not everyone thinks of such things.

So, if someone buys both lots and wants to start building but the squatters sue, then what?

I do not believe in the court system, because I believe in the human capacity to resolve minor civil disputes without resorting to violence. If squatters have renovated a building for living usage, then they are just as much entitled to live there as anyone else.

This is what I am against. This screwed up idea that human beings can claim ownership over something when they have no substantive backing, outside a government contracted recognition of property.

My goal has been to save for land of my own, but the land I want has been carved up thousands of acres a piece by real estate moguls that just leave it dormant and raise the prices so only the rich can pay, since the "owners" are already rich themselves. Are they entitled to thousands of acres of land that nobody is using simply because the government recognizes their claim?

 

[GLASNOST]

.... There's a sweet double lot in a great neighborhood, each section going for a song - I think I'll go there - BUT - the household to the north has an above-ground swimming pool on one of the lots. It's entirely possible they may claim squatters' rights.
Now I know this and will look into it before buying, but not everyone thinks of such things.
So, if someone buys both lots and wants to start building but the squatters sue, then what?

If you are buying 'a double or triple lot' you might want to think about who is infringing upon whom, and if the law is humanly justified, whether it protects you ... or the other guy.