Something Else To Think About

[kyzr]

So the FACT that there were more voters proves fraud?
That is an asinine statement. There are spikes in voting rates all the time due to changing interest in politics of the electorate. There is no doubt that Trump drove people to the polls in massive numbers.
How do you prove that the 20% was not Trump stuffing the ballot boxes? You cant, equating higher turnout with voter fraud is asinine without actual proof.
Oh look, it was not even the highest voter turnout. 1960 was higher.

1960 wasn't unusual when compared to 1956 & 1964. Maybe the 2020 election was legit. Maybe it looks like voter fraud.
Its up to the GOP in the states to ensure election integrity. I'm pointing out that the normal voting pattern changed, and looks suspicious, at least to me.
From your voter turnout chart, turnout was averaging ~55% then in 2020 it jumped to 62%. I don't buy the Trump excuse.
Obama in 2008 was more of a motivation than Trump.
It is what it is. Online registration and mass mail-in voting makes voter fraud "harvesting" easier and harder to prove.

 

[FA_Q2]

1960 wasn't unusual when compared to 1956 & 1964. Maybe the 2020 election was legit. Maybe it looks like voter fraud.
Its up to the GOP in the states to ensure election integrity. I'm pointing out that the normal voting pattern changed, and looks suspicious, at least to me.
From your voter turnout chart, turnout was averaging ~55% then in 2020 it jumped to 62%. I don't buy the Trump excuse.
Obama in 2008 was more of a motivation than Trump.
It is what it is. Online registration and mass mail-in voting makes voter fraud "harvesting" easier and harder to prove.

View attachment 682634

Just a few years before that was unusual though. '48 - '52 represented a LARGER increase than 2020.

No one disagrees that the voting pattern changed. The problem is that is a fact. That fact does not lead to your conclusion that it was fraud. It does not even point in that general direction.

What you would need to establish is some sort of evidence that increased voter participation was not due to more people being energized to vote and, to be quite frank, it is blatantly obvious people were. As the other poster pointed out, most people have a very strong opinion about Trump and that naturally leads to higher turnout.

What would you expect the turnout to be and why? I do not think anyone has the information and understanding of voting turnout to make a reasonable prediction on this and that makes claiming higher turnout as fraud vacuous. It is not as though the increase was unprecedented. Jumps of this size have happened before. It is not as though the rate was utterly unreasonable, these rates are not outside of reasonable numbers.

 

[Independentthinker]

I think that's the point. Republicans haven't been the most popular party for decades.

They've completely given up on getting more americans to vote for them.

LOL. Trump got the second highest vote total for presidency in the history of the country. How about this, let's wait and see if you are right at the midterms. By the way, the Democratic party is losing whites, blacks, and Hispanics.

 

[XponentialChaos]

~1 million a year

View attachment 682632

But it’s not 1 million per year. I just showed that.

 

[XponentialChaos]

True. I can't prove voter fraud, but its more likely than not.

So you can’t prove voter fraud by looking at an increase in numbers. Finally you admit it.

Can you prove that it’s more likely than not? No, you can’t do that either.

You have failed to prove your claim. QED.

 

[kyzr]

Just a few years before that was unusual though. '48 - '52 represented a LARGER increase than 2020.

No one disagrees that the voting pattern changed. The problem is that is a fact. That fact does not lead to your conclusion that it was fraud. It does not even point in that general direction.

What you would need to establish is some sort of evidence that increased voter participation was not due to more people being energized to vote and, to be quite frank, it is blatantly obvious people were. As the other poster pointed out, most people have a very strong opinion about Trump and that naturally leads to higher turnout.

What would you expect the turnout to be and why? I do not think anyone has the information and understanding of voting turnout to make a reasonable prediction on this and that makes claiming higher turnout as fraud vacuous. It is not as though the increase was unprecedented. Jumps of this size have happened before. It is not as though the rate was utterly unreasonable, these rates are not outside of reasonable numbers.

All very true. I can only point out my suspicions. There is other "evidence" of voter fraud, but I don't want to change the discussion from the unusual vote pattern. Here is one such item showing possible late night vote dumps. Is it real? I don't know. Its up to the state officials to police their state elections. I'm just saying that the state guys had better ensure that there is no voter fraud

To your point that Trump was polarizing. In GA Trump got fewer votes than other Republicans. His 1st debate performance did cost him votes. Do those non-Trump voters now have "voters remorse"? Probably. Biden has been one disaster after another.

 

[kyzr]

But it’s not 1 million per year. I just showed that.

Its very close to 1m/yr.

U.S. Population 1950-2024

Chart and table of U.S. population from 1950 to 2024. United Nations projections are also included through the year 2100.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[kyzr]

So you can’t prove voter fraud by looking at an increase in numbers. Finally you admit it.
Can you prove that it’s more likely than not? No, you can’t do that either.
You have failed to prove your claim. QED.

So not proving something disproves it?
The unusual/suspicious voting pattern is proven. That's all I was going for. QED

 

[Roadrunner76]

You are missing the point entirely.

With or without the EC, the organization formerly known as the Republican Party's days are numbered in the White House.

They need to stop being the party of hate and return to their first principles which they chucked out the window.

Party of hate ????? wtf are you talking about when libtards and leftists are screaming anti-Trump vitriol at the top of their lungs 24/7. Every Celebrity, College Student, professor, teacher, politician screams to kill any speaker with a conservative viewpoint and those idiots are all Democrats. I assume you are a Mexican and are mad that we do not let ALL MEXICANS come to the USA and live off of our welfare system. My friend, the reason you are allowed in the USA is for CHEAP LABOR for the Multinational corporations, Nancy Pelosi needs your cheap labor on her olive farm.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Control of the Senate is not by the States. There are people placed in some states to become candidates for a party or elites to win control of the popular vote. The 17th Amendment took the power away from the states. There is not Joe Manchin in West Virginia if that amendment was not forced by the than elites into the Constitution.

Republicans are exploiting in bad faith the mechanics of the Federal government contrary to the original intent of the Framers; it was not the intent of the Framers that the will of the majority of the people be completely disregarded as Republicans seek to do – hence the tyranny of Republican minority rule.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So you don’t want black people to vote. Is that correct?

That's correct.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think that's the point. Republicans haven't been the most popular party for decades.

They've completely given up on getting more americans to vote for them.

Spot on.

Republicans have abandoned the ‘big tent’ election paradigm; they’ve given up on appealing to independents, moderates, and weak Democrats (‘Reagan Democrats’).

This is likely the result of influences by the Christo-fascist right, rightwing ideologues, and the MAGA cult – all of whom are opposed to compromise and consensus needed to be a ‘big tent’ party.

Instead, the GOP is focused controlling the most states, not getting the most votes.

And with the control of most of the states they control the presidency, Senate, and judiciary, governing absent the consent of the majority of the American people.

 

[XponentialChaos]

So not proving something disproves it?

I didn’t say it was disproven. I said you failed to prove your claim.

Your claim: “Yes the 20% high total vote count compared to prior elections proves fraud.”

You pointed at high voter turnout and claimed that this proves fraud. Now you finally admit that this doesn’t prove fraud.

Yes, both the 2018 and 2020 elections had a high increase in votes. The obvious answer here is that Trump drove people to vote, like I’ve been saying all along. If you think it’s anything other than that, then you failed to make a compelling argument for it.

 

[BlackSand]

2020 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

.

 

[kyzr]

I didn’t say it was disproven. I said you failed to prove your claim.
Your claim: “Yes the 20% high total vote count compared to prior elections proves fraud.”
You pointed at high voter turnout and claimed that this proves fraud. Now you finally admit that this doesn’t prove fraud.
Yes, both the 2018 and 2020 elections had a high increase in votes. The obvious answer here is that Trump drove people to vote, like I’ve been saying all along. If you think it’s anything other than that, then you failed to make a compelling argument for it.

OK, "proves" was the wrong word. I should have said "points to" or "indicates". Good discussion.

 

[XponentialChaos]

OK, "proves" was the wrong word. I should have said "points to" or "indicates". Good discussion.

It doesn’t “point to” or “indicate“ that either. You have failed to show that as well.

 

[kyzr]

It doesn’t “point to” or “indicate“ that either. You have failed to show that as well.

We disagree. An an unexplained 22% increase in votes indicates something besides "Trump".
You're trying to say "Biden energized democrats way more than Obama".
I say voter fraud is more likely.

 

[XponentialChaos]

We disagree. An an unexplained 22% increase in votes indicates something besides "Trump".
You're trying to say "Biden energized democrats way more than Obama".
I say voter fraud is more likely.

Why does a 22% increase in votes “indicate“ fraud? You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever for your claim. You just keep repeating the same baseless opinion of yours.

I’m not trying to say that Biden energized Democrats more than Obama. I’m saying that Trump energized Democrats more than Obama.

 

[kyzr]

Why does a 22% increase in votes “indicate“ fraud? You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever for your claim. You just keep repeating the same baseless opinion of yours.
I’m not trying to say that Biden energized Democrats more than Obama. I’m saying that Trump energized Democrats more than Obama.

Ok, if you believe that Biden energized democrats more from his basement than Obama, we disagree again.
An unexplained 22% increase in votes indicates something. I say voter fraud, you say Trump. Neither of us can "prove" which opinion is correct.
I hope democrats see what a mess Biden has the country.
Tell me you'd vote for Biden again in 2024 over Trump.

 

[Circe]

Every President in history has been elected by the Electoral vote.

Or, we could have CA and NY decide every election and that is the end of the nation.

Good strategy. If we want secession really FAST, just kick out the Electoral College. You know, really, that would not be a bad strategy to get this country to split up fast. Which probably we do need to do.