Sir Arthur Harris: Dutiful Soldier or War Criminal?

[ESay]

I think that you do not understand economics at a sufficient level to understand basic concepts such as ownership of the means of production, and the structure of modern joint-stock companies, where there is no private property (with the exception of ownership of securities)
These concepts, which you use, were created specifically for the masses, they have nothing to do with how economies actually work.

What? Are you claiming that joint-stock companies don't fall in a category of a private owned property? I think it is time for you to do some homework, kid.

 

[rupol2000]

What? Are you claiming that joint-stock companies don't fall in a category of a private owned property? I think it is time for you to do some homework, kid.

it is de facto and legally not a private property. And this is not even collective property in real sence, because minoritarity not have right to manage.

 

[ESay]

it is de facto and legally not a private property. And this is not even collective property in real sence, because minoritarity not have right to manage.

Dude, I propose to end this senseless conversation.

 

[rupol2000]

Dude, I propose to end this senseless conversation.

I'll end on this idiotic note. The property of the USSR was "private", because it was formally distributed over the entire population. The Bolsheviks declared that everything in the USSR belongs to the people.

 

[Mushroom]

America invested a lot of money and equipment in the war, but there was no such devastation as in the USSR, and there were no 27 million dead on the fronts and in the rear.
In addition, before the war, nothing was done for people either. Industrialization was reduced to the military industry, nothing was invested in improving everyday life.

Of course, the Soviet's also used such things known as "Penal Battalions".

Where literally they sent prisoners and those who had been i units that broke and run at the front of an assault. Without a gun, essentially to work as "bullet sponges", and that if they were able to take a gun from among the dead they would use it. Only after participating in multiple such assaults could they "graduate" to being in an actual combat unit.

A large part of the reason that the Soviets took so many casualties is that they simply did not know how to fight very well. Not putting them down, but much like the Chinese in the Korean War, the most common attack was to simply charge the enemy, like it was before WWI. On a grand scale they had some good top level leaders, but at the lower levels (Company-Battalion), positions were more likely to be given for political affiliation and dedication rather than actually being a good commander.

And they all had "Political Officers", who could at times countermand their own orders and issue their own. The Soviets could have done better, with better leadership and a system that actually worked. But they treated the Nazis like they were a screw, and the only tool they owned was a hammer. So they just beat at it until it was done.

 

[GLASNOST]

You don't know anything. Even in Europe there are no such cars and never have been. The Americans did not stop producing such a cars even after the oil crisis, they only limited the power.
If you post a lamborghini or a sports porsche to me now, I will call you an idiot and will not answer any more.

You think "American cars with five-liter engines" proves "Americans have a high standard of living" . And then you say "Lamborghini and sports Porshe" cars do not prove you are wrong anyway.
You must be very young and have no experience of life or the world. What a jerk you are.

 

[rupol2000]

You think "American cars with five-liter engines" proves "Americans have a high standard of living" . And then you say "Lamborghini and sports Porshe" cars do not prove you are wrong anyway.
You must be very young and have no experience of life or the world. What a jerk you are.

Too stupid for me to react somehow. Absolute misunderstanding of the essence

 

[DudleySmith]

"Bomber Harris" was no more a war criminal than Spaatz or LeMay. Those who don't want their cities burned and civilians slaughtered indiscriminately, should probably refrain from starting wars.

^This. The Germans and Japanese started terror bombing civilians in WW I,escalating that in WW II to subs and then death camps. They reaped what they sowed. Germnay used zeppelins to bomb London, at night, when they couldn't possibly have been deliberately aiming at 'military' targets.

 

[GLASNOST]

^This. The Germans and Japanese started terror bombing civilians in WW I,escalating that in WW II to subs and then death camps. They reaped what they sowed.

That's one way to look at it but you didn't write the laws of warfare so whether Harris was a "war criminal" or not isn't for you or I to decide.

 

[DudleySmith]

That's one way to look at it but you didn't write the laws of warfare so whether Harris was a "war criminal" or not isn't for you or I to decide.

The Japs and Germans violated those laws first, and deliberately, and thus removed themselves from any moral grounds to snivel about what happened to them as a result. The Soviets did, too, for that matter.

 

[GLASNOST]

The Japs and Germans violated those laws first, and deliberately, and thus removed themselves from any moral grounds ......

No. That's not how it works and you know that's not how it works. If it did work that way the Iraqis would now have clean rights to bomb the piss out of the US and torture Americans at random. And ..... the attack on 9/11 would be fully justified.

 

[DudleySmith]

No. That's not how it works and you know that's not how it works. If it did work that way the Iraqis would now have clean rights to bomb the piss out of the US and torture Americans at random. And ..... the attack on 9/11 would be fully justified.

Actually it does work exactly that way. And, we all know the vermin would bomb and torture Americans and everybody else regardless of whether they did anything at all, since they're mostly feral animals, mostly arrogant 'Master Race' types who regard others outside their tribes as sub-humans fit only for slavery or death. They proved that being 'nice guys' to them only makes them worse; they regard such beliefs as a sign of weakness and have zero respect or humanity for anyone else. We won't be seeing a lot of support for 'nation building' projects for such cultures in the future, just for those who have some sort of tendency to civilization from now on. Bush II let his Christianity lead him astray in Iraq and Afghanistan. America made the same mistakes re the Soviet Union during and after WW II. FDR let Churchill influence him too much re the nature of Russians and Stalin in particular. In hindsight it's clear we made a huge mistake in keeping that thug and his Party in the war instead of letting Hitler chew the scum up..

 

[Ringo]

Of course, the Soviet's also used such things known as "Penal Battalions".

Where literally they sent prisoners and those who had been i units that broke and run at the front of an assault. Without a gun, essentially to work as "bullet sponges", and that if they were able to take a gun from among the dead they would use it. Only after participating in multiple such assaults could they "graduate" to being in an actual combat unit.

Please don't study the history of the USSR from silly Hollywood films.

 

[GLASNOST]

Actually it does work exactly that way. And, we all know the vermin would bomb and torture Americans and everybody else regardless of whether they did anything at all, since they're mostly feral animals, mostly arrogant 'Master Race' types who regard others outside their tribes as sub-humans fit only for slavery or death. They proved that being 'nice guys' to them only makes them worse; they regard such beliefs as a sign of weakness and have zero respect or humanity for anyone else. We won't be seeing a lot of support for 'nation building' projects for such cultures in the future, just for those who have some sort of tendency to civilization from now on. Bush II let his Christianity lead him astray in Iraq and Afghanistan. America made the same mistakes re the Soviet Union during and after WW II. FDR let Churchill influence him too much re the nature of Russians and Stalin in particular. In hindsight it's clear we made a huge mistake in keeping that thug and his Party in the war instead of letting Hitler chew the scum up..

This is a serious thread. I don't know why you are here.

 

[DudleySmith]

This is a serious thread. I don't know why you are here.

lol too bad you can't really dispute what I said; the fact is the major mistake was not allowing Hitler to finish the Soviets off first; they were one of the primary forces destabilizing Germany and getting Hitler into office on the first place, and indeed even allied with him to plunder other countries. The fact both he and Stalin were criminal allies who just had a falling out was no real reason to care if they wiped each other out. We could have kept Britain safe from German invasion without bailing out a piece of shit like Stalin as well.

 

[DudleySmith]

Please don't study the history of the USSR from silly Hollywood films.

Please don't regale us with a lot of rubbish from old Soviet Cold War films; Hollywood's are least entertaining, while the Russians' movies are just banal and stupid.

 

[GLASNOST]

lol too bad you can't really dispute what I said; the fact is the major mistake was not allowing Hitler to finish the Soviets off first; they were one of the primary forces destabilizing Germany and getting Hitler into office on the first place, and indeed even allied with him to plunder other countries. The fact both he and Stalin were criminal allies who just had a falling out was no real reason to care if they wiped each other out. We could have kept Britain safe from German invasion without bailing out a piece of shit like Stalin as well.

You should really read something other than comic books.

 

[Ringo]

Please don't regale us with a lot of rubbish from old Soviet Cold War films; Hollywood's are least entertaining

Yes, stupidity is more entertaining. And there are few things more stupid, ridiculous and deceitful than Hollywood films about the Soviet Union.

 

[Mushroom]

Please don't study the history of the USSR from silly Hollywood films.

Really now?

And please tell me how many "Hollywood Films" have there been exactly about penal battalions?

Typical for you, you deny anything you do not like, but offer nothing to support your claim.

Oh, and if it is fictitious, then kindly explain Stalin's Order 227 of 28 July 1942. Which ordered the formation of three Shtrafbats, or Penal Battalions.

 

[DudleySmith]

You should really read something other than comic books.

You and your Russian buddies should give up drinking.