Sir Arthur Harris: Dutiful Soldier or War Criminal?

[Ringo]

Just the opposite. Bolshevik liars usually explain this by the fact that the Bolsheviks were so stupid that they mistakenly confiscated all food and people starved to death. If they were such idiots, how could they seize and hold on to power.
In addition, the Holodomors were exclusively on fertile steppe lands, and covered mainly lands that were previously controlled by the Cossacks.

This is article in american, New York newspaper in ukrainian language, printed with news from Polish part of Ukraine about HUNGER. These damn bolsheviks! They confiscated all food from Poland too!
Find somebody who speaks russian and they read it to you.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... on the whole I can say that American justice, for all its shortcomings, is no worse than in "other countries."......

You are so, so wrong that I don't know how to explain it to you. American corruption is the worst in the western world and its Democracy is very poor.

 

[rupol2000]

American corruption is the worst in the western world and its Democracy is very poor.

Yes, this is especially noticeable because in the United States, police do not take bribes and Americans drive cars the size of a spaceship's engine.

 

[rupol2000]

They confiscated all food from Poland too!

I would have believed it, because the Bolsheviks are historically enemies of the Poles, and Ukraine was just a part of Poland only about 300 years ago, the original Ukrainians are Poles, they have the same origin with the Poles from the Cumans(Polovtsy). Anti-Semitic sentiments are very noticeable in Poland, as in Ukraine in the past. Gomulka tried to deport all Jews from Poland.
This is especially noticeable in western Ukraine. The language that is considered Ukrainian is the language of Western Ukraine. It was a single region with the Danube and Poland. The Hetmanate was pro-Moscow and it just fought with them, on the side of the Ottomans. Both Moscow and Kiev are now silent about this.
After the defeat under the Ottomans by the Polish hussars, Less Poland (western and central Ukraine) was also liberated.
What is considered the beauty of a Ukrainian woman, the canonical type, well known in the world, is the Polish type.
like this

These are the Cumans
There were also Cuman settlements in Russia, in the steppe part of it. A lot of topoimics remained of them, and this type is still found in Russia.
And this is strikingly different from the modern Russian type of the northwest, which is identical to the Litvin.

 

[rupol2000]

This is precisely the reason why many modern Bolshevik-Stalinists want to destroy the Ukrainian language, calling it artificial. This is the language of the Danube, the original place of distribution of "Slavic" languages. The real Slavs, the original speakers of the Slavic language, are only the Cumans-Ukrainians, Poles, and other Western "Slavs". The southern and eastern Slavs had other languages until the 7th century, they were Slavicized during the rule of the Avars on their lands, during the time of the Avar Kaganate. There is no such community as "Slavs" in the ethnic sense. The original eastern Slavs are the Balts, and the southern Slavs are Noriks, Illyrians, Macedonians, and Venets. And this is not their language. They spoke Balts and Balkanians.
From the Baltic languages, the original languages of the "Eastern Slavs" now there is Lithuanian, Latvian and written Prussian languages. The rest of the languages are dead, but there are quite a few of them, more than ten branches: Golind, Zhmud, Curonian, and so on. These are the original Russian languages - the languages of the territory of historical Russia.

 

[rupol2000]

That is, the Bolsheviks are trying to turn everything upside down, presenting the primordial Slavic as artificial, derived from the Slavic as original. This is in the spirit of the usual scams of the left evil spirits.

 

[frigidweirdo]

"Bomber Harris" was no more a war criminal than Spaatz or LeMay. Those who don't want their cities burned and civilians slaughtered indiscriminately, should probably refrain from starting wars.

That's a pretty bad example.

Imagine the US War of Independence if the British had won, and then rounded up people, stuck them in gas chambers (or the contemporary equivalent). Do you think they deserved it?

The LEADERS of Germany started it, not the people of Germany.

 

[rupol2000]

The Ukrainian language is very musical, this may be evidence that it is the closest to the Vedic language of all modern Indo-European languages, because the vedic language had a musical stress, it was a melodic language

 

[GLASNOST]

Yes, this is especially noticeable because in the United States, police do not take bribes and Americans drive cars the size of a spaceship's engine.

I don't agree with the "red" part.

 

[ESay]

Now here is the real question, what would have happened if say the US had said "No"? Hmm? Can you say "famine"?

Of course it would have led to severe food shortages in the Soviet Union. The Soviet economic model was quite ineffective and was only possible to get started due to many thousands if not millions of 'slaves' living and working in awful conditions in 1930s. In those times industrial basis of the SU was laid.

After some time, when the Soviet people began demending more decent conditions of life, this system collapsed, because it failed to provide that in any meaningfully long period of time.

But no one Russian (okay, very few Russians) will openly admit that. They will blame Gorbachev, CIA, Jews, inner enemies so on in the Soviet collapse. But never fundamental flaws of the system. The Soviet period of history is a part an average Russian is very proud of. And they will defend it no matter what.

After some experience of communicating with the Russians on Internet forums, for me an average Russian is a highly brainwashed, quite dishonest and intellectually not very bright person. Just look at this forum to draw your own conclusions.

 

[Ringo]

After some time, when the Soviet people began demending more decent conditions of life, this system collapsed, because it failed to provide that in any meaningfully long period of time.

You seem to think that living and working conditions for workers were better during the times of undivided capitalism? Have you never heard of child labor and a 14-5 hour working day in conditions that lead to rapid mortality? You can read a lot about this and terrible working conditions persisted at the beginning of the 20th century and even later. And if you remember. that during periodic economic crises, living conditions for the unemployed generally led to starvation, then one would shut up and keep silent about the "terrible living conditions under socialism" if one was a decent person.
Living conditions were sometimes difficult in the USSR of the 30s, but there was also great labor enthusiasm of people, who saw that the result of their labor belonged to them, and not to a bunch of capitalists and living and working conditions are improving.

 

[ESay]

You seem to think that living and working conditions for workers were better during the times of undivided capitalism? Have you never heard of child labor and a 14-5 hour working day in conditions that lead to rapid mortality? You can read a lot about this and terrible working conditions persisted at the beginning of the 20th century and even later. And if you remember. that during periodic economic crises, living conditions for the unemployed generally led to starvation, then one would shut up and keep silent about the "terrible living conditions under socialism" if one was a decent person.
Living conditions were sometimes difficult in the USSR of the 30s, but there was also great labor enthusiasm of people, who saw that the result of their labor belonged to them, and not to a bunch of capitalists and living and working conditions are improving.

You seem not to understand what I was trying to say. I didn't say there hadn't been awful working conditions in the West or the US. They were and there were many nasty thing there.

But the Western economic systems were able to adapt to new realities, such as limited working days and weeks, increasing wages of the workers, improved work environment, worker rights etc. While the Soviey system collapsed.

Actually it is highly hilarious to even mention about the possible effectiveness of the Soviet economic and social model which lasted only for about 70 years. Even less than one generation.

 

[Ringo]

But the Western economic systems were able to adapt to new realities, such as limited working days and weeks, increasing wages of the workers, improved work environment, worker rights etc. While the Soviey system collapsed.

Actually it is highly hilarious to even mention about the possible effectiveness of the Soviet economic and social model which lasted only for about 70 years. Even less than one generation.

You really think that all this increasing wages of the workers, improved work environment and all that was done by the capitalists out the kindness of their hearts, that greedy sharks (and others do not survive in capitalist competition) went to reduce their incomes and felt pity for the exploited population?
Did it ever occur to you that the capitalists of the West were forced to go for social reforms because the workers of the Earth faced the example of the first victorious state of workers and peasants, which immediately took measures for which the workers in the West had been fighting for decades?
As for the fall of socialism in the USSR, unlike capitalism, which originated in the depths of another exploitative state, feudalism, socialism had to be built, created. For the first time in the history of mankind. And despite the inevitable mistakes in the new business and the sabotage on the part of capitalism, the USSR has achieved tremendous results. Only the betrayal of the members of the upper echelons of the party could destroy this path. It started with Khrushchev. People decide everything, especially people in power. Under capitalism, the same thing, is not for nothing that absolutely most of the new capitalist enterprises end up in bankruptcy within the first three years.
But the laws of human society cannot be deceived, the mole of history digs slowly but surely. Communism is the future of humanity. The USSR was the first on this path, and therefore the propaganda efforts of corrupt bourgeois propagandists continue to pollute the history of this example.

 

[ESay]

You really think that all this increasing wages of the workers, improved work environment and all that was done by the capitalists out the kindness of their hearts, that greedy sharks (and others do not survive in capitalist competition) went to reduce their incomes and felt pity for the exploited population?
Did it ever occur to you that the capitalists of the West were forced to go for social reforms because the workers of the Earth faced the example of the first victorious state of workers and peasants, which immediately took measures for which the workers in the West had been fighting for decades?
As for the fall of socialism in the USSR, unlike capitalism, which originated in the depths of another exploitative state, feudalism, socialism had to be built, created. For the first time in the history of mankind. And despite the inevitable mistakes in the new business and the sabotage on the part of capitalism, the USSR has achieved tremendous results. Only the betrayal of the members of the upper echelons of the party could destroy this path. It started with Khrushchev. People decide everything, especially people in power. Under capitalism, the same thing, is not for nothing that absolutely most of the new capitalist enterprises end up in bankruptcy within the first three years.
But the laws of human society cannot be deceived, the mole of history digs slowly but surely. Communism is the future of humanity. The USSR was the first on this path, and therefore the propaganda efforts of corrupt bourgeois propagandists continue to pollute the history of this example.

Are you really trying to sell this nonsense that the workers in the West were inspired by the Soviet Union to struggle for their rights? Jesus..

Read something about trade unions in Europe and the English industrial revolution.

Russia was never an example for the West as it was deemed as illiterate and backward country throughout all its history. On the contrary, it is Russian rulers tried to reform the country on European manner, not very successful for the most part.

 

[rupol2000]

I don't agree with the "red" part.

I saw polls of New York citizens, everyone said that they never tried to bribe cops. Even if there is corruption there, it is much less than in other countries.

 

[Ringo]

Are you really trying to sell this nonsense that the workers in the West were inspired by the Soviet Union to struggle for their rights? Jesus..

You are the one, who really illiterate and backward if you do not know about influence of the russian revolution on the workers of the world. Well, that's the capitalist education and propaganda for you.

 

[ESay]

You are the one, who really illiterate and backward if you do not know about influence of the russian revolution on the workers of the world. Well, that's the capitalist education and propaganda for you.

Oh, dude. Lets agree to disagree and move along our own ways.

 

[Ringo]

Oh, dude. Lets agree to disagree and move along our own ways.

O.K. You will never see on TV that after a political discussion, someone said to his opponent:" I agree with you and willingly change my ideology after your arguments" .

 

[Circe]

"Bomber Harris" was no more a war criminal than Spaatz or LeMay. Those who don't want their cities burned and civilians slaughtered indiscriminately, should probably refrain from starting wars.

Agreed, and if we had fought in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan the way Bomber Harris fought, we wouldn't have lost all those wars. Wars are for winning, not for glorifying anti-war rules.

 

[Mushroom]

Of course it would have led to severe food shortages in the Soviet Union.

Of course it would have. Heck, I even pointed out that even if it was for animals and not people, the loss of the chickens, cows, and other animals that would have starved would have caused famine. Even if that silly claim was true, no more beef, eggs, pork, chickens, milk, cheese, etc, etc, etc.

One thing I already realize, Ringo just makes up everything he says. I looked over and over for any kind of verification that the wheat was for animals. And the thing is, I could find not a damned resource that said that. Nowhere can I find anything saying that wheat was for animals.

And when I asked for proof of his claim, the idiot actually said he was not willing to do it. In other words, he threw a tantrum because I could not just believe his lies without proof and then started doing his usual bit. Crying and screaming everything is Nazi propaganda, and how dare somebody not believe him.

He really is a buffoon. Just the other side of the Litwin coin. Will make up anything they want, and just somehow expect everybody to believe it without challenge. Or doing something like referencing actual facts.