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Singapore's Health Care System - Seemed Pretty Good

Sun Devil 92

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There were a host of articles on this topic a while back. I had lost track.

Here is one:

Singapore's Health Care System: A Free Lunch You Can Sink Your Teeth Into | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

The Singapore government spent only 1.3 percent of GDP on healthcare in 2002, whereas the combined public and private expenditure on healthcare amounted to a low 4.3 percent of GDP. By contrast, the United States spent 14.6 percent of its GDP on healthcare that year, up from 7 percent in 1970... Yet, indicators such as infant mortality rates or years of average healthy life expectancy are slightly more favorable in Singapore than in the United States... It is true that such indicators are also related to the overall living environment and not only to healthcare spending. Nonetheless, international experts rank Singapore's healthcare system among the most successful in the world in terms of cost-effectiveness and community health results.

Now, this again goes to the measurement of health care spending.....something the ACA has not changed (unless you call it slowing down the increase).

But, this is a pretty cool system. It has mandatory health savings programs.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/singapores-health-care-system-holds-lessons-for-u-s/

Singapore has a range of policies that support health care, Haseltine said. For example, Singaporeans are required to have a health savings plan, called Medisave, that works like a 401K retirement savings plan in the U.S; the government sets both policies and prices for private insurance companies; health care costs for services and procedures must be completely transparent; there’s a minister of “wellness” who emphasizes the importance of a healthy diet and exercise and works to curb smoking; there are high health care subsidies for those with low incomes; and the government invests heavily in medical education.

Seems like they have some pretty good elements......

Wonder how they spend so little ?
 

Arianrhod

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There were a host of articles on this topic a while back. I had lost track.

Here is one:

Singapore's Health Care System: A Free Lunch You Can Sink Your Teeth Into | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

The Singapore government spent only 1.3 percent of GDP on healthcare in 2002, whereas the combined public and private expenditure on healthcare amounted to a low 4.3 percent of GDP. By contrast, the United States spent 14.6 percent of its GDP on healthcare that year, up from 7 percent in 1970... Yet, indicators such as infant mortality rates or years of average healthy life expectancy are slightly more favorable in Singapore than in the United States... It is true that such indicators are also related to the overall living environment and not only to healthcare spending. Nonetheless, international experts rank Singapore's healthcare system among the most successful in the world in terms of cost-effectiveness and community health results.

Now, this again goes to the measurement of health care spending.....something the ACA has not changed (unless you call it slowing down the increase).

But, this is a pretty cool system. It has mandatory health savings programs.

Singapore’s health care system holds valuable lessons for U.S.

Singapore has a range of policies that support health care, Haseltine said. For example, Singaporeans are required to have a health savings plan, called Medisave, that works like a 401K retirement savings plan in the U.S; the government sets both policies and prices for private insurance companies; health care costs for services and procedures must be completely transparent; there’s a minister of “wellness” who emphasizes the importance of a healthy diet and exercise and works to curb smoking; there are high health care subsidies for those with low incomes; and the government invests heavily in medical education.

Seems like they have some pretty good elements......

Wonder how they spend so little ?

The answer's right there in the article:

"Singaporeans are required to have a health savings plan, called Medisave, that works like a 401K retirement savings plan in the U.S; the government sets both policies and prices for private insurance companies; health care costs for services and procedures must be completely transparent; there’s a minister of “wellness” who emphasizes the importance of a healthy diet and exercise and works to curb smoking; there are high health care subsidies for those with low incomes; and the government invests heavily in medical education."

Americans traditionally resist all of that Because Reasons. "No government's going to tell ME how to eat right and quit smoking! Nannyism!!!!!11" and "If we force the Job Creators [i.e. insurers] to do their job they'll punish us somehow. Socialism!!!11!"
 
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Sun Devil 92

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The hard part isn't having principles. The hard part is remembering them.

Was it only yesterday that conservatives argued that state-mandated health and retirement savings accounts were the secret to a well-functioning national healthcare system? Singapore and Chile were the star examples—Singapore even more than Chile.

Conservatives Love Obamacare - When it's Singaporecare

I found this one while continuing to look for more information.

I have no idea what Frum is talking about. I don't recall conservatives ever arguing that point.....must have been asleep.

Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.
 

Arianrhod

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The hard part isn't having principles. The hard part is remembering them.

Was it only yesterday that conservatives argued that state-mandated health and retirement savings accounts were the secret to a well-functioning national healthcare system? Singapore and Chile were the star examples—Singapore even more than Chile.

Conservatives Love Obamacare - When it's Singaporecare

I found this one while continuing to look for more information.

I have no idea what Frum is talking about. I don't recall conservatives ever arguing that point.....must have been asleep.

Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

The conservative POV when someone mentions healthcare in any other country is "Singapore has a small, homogeneous population. What works there would NEVER work here so there's no point in trying."
 
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Sun Devil 92

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More from the article in the OP:

More details on how Singapore's system works:

  • There are mandatory health savings accounts: "Individuals pre-save for medical expenses through mandatory deductions from their paychecks and employer contributions... Only approved categories of medical treatment can be paid for by deducting one's Medisave account, for oneself, grandparents, parents, spouse or children: consultations with private practitioners for minor ailments must be paid from out-of-pocket cash..."
  • "The private healthcare system competes with the public healthcare, which helps contain prices in both directions. Private medical insurance is also available."
  • Private healthcare providers are required to publish price lists to encourage comparison shopping.
  • The government pays for "basic healthcare services... subject to tight expenditure control." Bottom line: The government pays 80% of "basic public healthcare services."
  • Government plays a big role with contagious disease, and adds some paternalism on top: "Preventing diseases such as HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tobacco-related illnesses by ensuring good health conditions takes a high priority."
  • The government provides optional low-cost catatrophic health insurance, plus a safety net "subject to stringent means-testing."
I wonder what "low cost catastrophic health insurance costs there.

Our Bronze plans, as has been pointed out, are nothing more than high cost catastrophic plans.
 
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Sun Devil 92

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And WHAM.....!!!

Creating a better health system: lessons from Singapore

As a small city state with a population of 5.4 million people, Singapore has a clear sense of what it wants from its health system. This is captured in the 1993 Singapore Government White Paper Affordable Health Care – a 60-page manifesto that clearly embodies a national health policy, a vision and a guiding philosophy.

In contrast, Australia has no health care manifesto that clearly states what we want from our health system.

Singapore spends about half the proportion of GDP on health than we do in Australia – in 2012 4.7% of GDP versus 9.1% in Australia.

*************************

A couple of points.

1. There is a manifesto which I'd love to get my hands on. It probably spells out the goals, objectives, and principle underpinnings of a health care project. I wish we had one of those. We don't.

2. Australia spend 9.1% in 2012. That's more than half of what we spent (but not by much) and this guy wants it reduced. There is a lesson here.

3. In 2012, Singapore spent 4.7. In 2002, according the article from the Op, they spend 1.3. That is almost triple. I wonder what was going on during those ten years.

Still 4.7 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Sun Devil 92

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Initially, I was thinking about the population size and thinking of the size of states.

Singapore is about the population of Colorado. Colorado is ranked 22nd, which means there are 28 states smaller than Colorado.

Why can't this model be applied there ?

Now, it is not lost on me that Singapore is a city and we are talking states. In some cases states with significant rural populations.

There still seems to be hope.

Of course, I've always been for states doing something, but they copped out and now we have Federal Obummercare.
 
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Sun Devil 92

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Now, this was interesting.

It comes from:

Health System in Singapore - AngloINFO Singapore, in Singapore (Singapore)

Singapore has a highly-developed healthcare system with an emphasis on private provision. Healthcare in Singapore, which attracts international medical tourism, is not free or funded by the state. Instead, Singaporeans and permanent residents fund their own medical costs by paying into government-operated programmes and/or private insurance plans. The option of simply paying the fee upon treatment is also available, and specialists can be directly approached without referrals from a general practitioner.

This is an expat site that has information for those moving to Singapore.

In the next paragraph it states;

However, non-residents are not covered under the CPF, and should ensure that they possess adequate private medical insurance.
 
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Sun Devil 92

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This is from a book summary:

The primary lesson from my study of the Singapore health care system is that the key to controlling costs lies in aligning individual and collective incentives. Individuals must understand that health services costs money and that they should pay those costs they can afford themselves.

Singapore's Health Care Lessons for the U.S.

And this was from Wikipedia:

Singapore has "one of the most successful healthcare systems in the world, in terms of both efficiency in financing and the results achieved in community health outcomes," according to an analysis by global consulting firm Towers Watson.[8] The government regularly adjusts policies to actively regulate "the supply and prices of healthcare services in the country" in an attempt to keep costs in check. However, for the most part the government does not directly regulate the costs of private medical care. These costs are largely subject to market forces, and vary enormously within the private sector, depending on the medical specialty and service provided.

I found that very very interesting.
 
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dblack

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.
 

Arianrhod

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.
 

dblack

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Regarding the OP - I've never understood the preoccupation with percentage of GDP spent on health care. Most people seem to see it as an indication of waste or inefficiency, but I don't think that's been established at all. The fact of the matter is that we're wealthy, and in old age have a hell of a lot more money to blow on health care, so we do. I don't even see why it's a bad thing.

I totally get that health care prices are inflated in the US, but that's really a different issue. Even if the market balance were restored, we'd still spend more on health care than other countries because we can afford to.
 

dblack

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.

What lie are you constructing now?
 

Arianrhod

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.

What lie are you constructing now?

Are you saying you're lying in Post #12?

More to the point, what does it have to do with Singapore?
 

flacaltenn

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There were a host of articles on this topic a while back. I had lost track.

Here is one:

Singapore's Health Care System: A Free Lunch You Can Sink Your Teeth Into | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

The Singapore government spent only 1.3 percent of GDP on healthcare in 2002, whereas the combined public and private expenditure on healthcare amounted to a low 4.3 percent of GDP. By contrast, the United States spent 14.6 percent of its GDP on healthcare that year, up from 7 percent in 1970... Yet, indicators such as infant mortality rates or years of average healthy life expectancy are slightly more favorable in Singapore than in the United States... It is true that such indicators are also related to the overall living environment and not only to healthcare spending. Nonetheless, international experts rank Singapore's healthcare system among the most successful in the world in terms of cost-effectiveness and community health results.

Now, this again goes to the measurement of health care spending.....something the ACA has not changed (unless you call it slowing down the increase).

But, this is a pretty cool system. It has mandatory health savings programs.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/singapores-health-care-system-holds-lessons-for-u-s/

Singapore has a range of policies that support health care, Haseltine said. For example, Singaporeans are required to have a health savings plan, called Medisave, that works like a 401K retirement savings plan in the U.S; the government sets both policies and prices for private insurance companies; health care costs for services and procedures must be completely transparent; there’s a minister of “wellness” who emphasizes the importance of a healthy diet and exercise and works to curb smoking; there are high health care subsidies for those with low incomes; and the government invests heavily in medical education.

Seems like they have some pretty good elements......

Wonder how they spend so little ?

Probably don't have as many cosmetic and gender change surgeries.

Seriously -- the accelerating cost of healthcare is because neither patient or doctor KNOWS what stuff costs. You put someone in Singapore in charge of PAYING for their services out of THEIR OWN Med Savings Account and costs plummet instantaneously..

Right now -- Doctors are even sure of what they will get PAID on claims or how long it will take. And the insurance companies beat on BOTH the providers and the patients.

Providers could fix this --- if people were not already REQUIRED to deal with the insurance companies..
 

dblack

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.

What lie are you constructing now?

Are you saying you're lying in Post #12?

Get to the point, dipshit. I can't track your semi-literate blubbering. You mumbled something about something confirming something. Do you have a point? Do you have a coherent thought to express?
 

Arianrhod

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Health Savings accounts are great. From the day they've hit, I've maxed mine out.

dblack ..... just wondering if you've ever looked at this.


The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.

What lie are you constructing now?

Are you saying you're lying in Post #12?

Get to the point, dipshit. I can't track your semi-literate blubbering. You mumbled something about something confirming something. Do you have a point? Do you have a coherent thought to express?

See, there you go again, assuming that rudeness will get you what you want. How does that work for you IRL?

And what does your boss giving you a handout have to do with Singapore?
 

dblack

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The high deductible plan for under $100/mo (that I mentioned in another thread) was combined with a health savings account funded by a previous employer (circa 2004). It was a nice setup. We paid our own premiums, that were quite low, and the company fully funded a $5000 health savings account to cover the deductible. The net result was the equivalent of a zero-deductible plan for $500/month. And the beauty of it was that any money left in the account at the end of the year was ours to keep. We had full coverage and an incentive not to waste it.

Confirming once again that you're okay with handouts from the corporate sugar daddy.

What lie are you constructing now?

Are you saying you're lying in Post #12?

Get to the point, dipshit. I can't track your semi-literate blubbering. You mumbled something about something confirming something. Do you have a point? Do you have a coherent thought to express?

See, there you go again, assuming that rudeness will get you what you want.

And there you go again, assuming I "want" something from you (other than casual entertainment)

How does that work for you IRL?

In real life, I avoid jackasses.

And what does your boss giving you a handout have to do with Singapore?


I was answering Sun Devils question about HSAs.

And as far as my "boss" giving me a handout goes, it was an employee-owned company. We all looked at the health insurance situation and decided not to go for the normal horseshit. So.. hehe....

Ya know, I think you could actually stick your foot so far down your own throat it would stick out your ass. Have you ever tried?
 

Arianrhod

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And there you go again, assuming I "want" something from you.

That's why you don't respond to my posts.

As for your little employee co-op, instead of mocking people who aren't as fortunate, maybe you should try incentivizing other companies to do likewise.

But that would require effort on your part. Mocking is so much easier.
 

dblack

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And there you go again, assuming I "want" something from you.

That's why you don't respond to my posts.

You bet it is. I only respond when you're regurgitating corrosive talking points. Or when I feel like a few laughs.

As for your little employee co-op, instead of mocking people who aren't as fortunate, maybe you should try incentivizing other companies to do likewise.

I'd love to. But ACA made that plan illegal. Thanks Obama!
 

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