Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Andylusion]

I believe in reading the Bible, not stupid shit ignorant people claim is in it.
I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not old Jewish law written by crazy fuckers wandering around in the desert.
Something about Love thy neighbor, do unto others and do not judge.

Right. I believe that too, which is why I don't give crap what you think the Bible says. I can read it myself too, and see that you don't know what you are talking about.

You do "give crap" what I think because you posted back.
Who u trying to shit?

No, I don't. I posted back, because I wanted to. How is that so hard for you to grasp?

Your opinion of what my Bible says, couldn't possibly be lower on my care-o-meter.

I'm here to stand of for my Bible, and my beliefs. You are allowed to be wrong, and that's fine. You can have your personal private "adaptive bible" over there, in your little corner by yourself. I don't care.

To everyone else, the Bible is very clear Homosexuality is a sin. It says it hundreds of times. Do we forgive? Absolutely. The entire point of the Bible is that G-d will forgive those who repent. But repent means accepting what you are doing is wrong, and changing what you do to the right.

"Well I think the Bible says" I don't care. Stuff it. No one cares what your opinion of what the Bible says is, except perhaps other rationalizers. The rest of us can read it ourselves. Thanks for your opinion, it has been filed in the oval cabinet of permanent storage. Have a nice day.

 

[JoeB131]

OK we have some homosexuals that post here.

Take a poll of them:

How many of you gay folk support forcing churches to marry gay folks?

By the government, no. By loved ones attending church, yes.

And the devout of Utah? Do you also not support the government forcing gay marriage on them as well...you know, the 2/3rds who voted to define marriage as between a man and a woman?

While i think nothing would improve Mormonism more than turning Utah into a huge Cult Deprogramming Camp, it doesn't matter what the majority voted. A majority cannot vote away the rights of a minority.

At least in theory.

If Utah's ban is in violation of the 14th Amendment or the Full Faith and Credit Clause, then it is constitutionally invalid.

 

[Silhouette]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

Do you include mosques in that sentiment?

You'll have to forgive KNB. S/he is a little snippy since Hobby Lobby. S/he knows that in Utah where gay marraige vs Utah is pending appeal to SCOTUS, 2/3rds of the religious state rejected gay marriage.

 

[RKMBrown]

I can speak about the Bible as a former christian or a secular historian. It's a free country. I'm just advocating for the christians whose voices are being drowned out by the deviant sex cult that's trying to eradicate their faith by increments.

Well they can't touch my faith... and you lost yours. So...

 

[Seawytch]

And the devout of Utah? Do you also not support the government forcing gay marriage on them as well...you know, the 2/3rds who voted to define marriage as between a man and a woman?

I'm 100% against the government forcing any individual into a same-sex civil marriage.


Of course, I'm also 100% against the government forcing any individual into a different-sex marriage.


I stand firmly on the position that all participation in Civil Marriage should be voluntary.



>>>>

Me too! (But if the government does start forcing people...can I sign up for Angelina Jolie? I'll even take Brad Pitt if it's a package deal so the government would also have to force polygamist marriages...dang, this gets so complicated)

 

[Redfish]

By the government, no. By loved ones attending church, yes.

And the devout of Utah? Do you also not support the government forcing gay marriage on them as well...you know, the 2/3rds who voted to define marriage as between a man and a woman?

While i think nothing would improve Mormonism more than turning Utah into a huge Cult Deprogramming Camp, it doesn't matter what the majority voted. A majority cannot vote away the rights of a minority.

At least in theory.

If Utah's ban is in violation of the 14th Amendment or the Full Faith and Credit Clause, then it is constitutionally invalid.

Hmmmm, then I guess the minority who refuse to pay federal taxes cannot be forced to do that by majority vote-----------

In a free democratic society, majority opinion rules. The majority set the rules. The majority selects leaders, the majority of leaders make the laws.

 

[Redfish]

And the devout of Utah? Do you also not support the government forcing gay marriage on them as well...you know, the 2/3rds who voted to define marriage as between a man and a woman?

I'm 100% against the government forcing any individual into a same-sex civil marriage.


Of course, I'm also 100% against the government forcing any individual into a different-sex marriage.


I stand firmly on the position that all participation in Civil Marriage should be voluntary.



>>>>

Me too! (But if the government does start forcing people...can I sign up for Angelina Jolie? I'll even take Brad Pitt if it's a package deal so the government would also have to force polygamist marriages...dang, this gets so complicated)

you just made the case against gay marriage

because the next natural legal step is multiple marriages of all forms and numbers. If a gay union of two people is called a marriage then there is no possible legal defense that can be brought against polygamy and bigamy or all forms. Maybe you and your "partner" can bring your dog into the "marriage".

 

[Seawytch]

I'm 100% against the government forcing any individual into a same-sex civil marriage.


Of course, I'm also 100% against the government forcing any individual into a different-sex marriage.


I stand firmly on the position that all participation in Civil Marriage should be voluntary.



>>>>

Me too! (But if the government does start forcing people...can I sign up for Angelina Jolie? I'll even take Brad Pitt if it's a package deal so the government would also have to force polygamist marriages...dang, this gets so complicated)

you just made the case against gay marriage

because the next natural legal step is multiple marriages of all forms and numbers. If a gay union of two people is called a marriage then there is no possible legal defense that can be brought against polygamy and bigamy or all forms. Maybe you and your "partner" can bring your dog into the "marriage".

Oh Fishy...you have no idea how much folks like you help marriage equality along...

 

[Redfish]

Me too! (But if the government does start forcing people...can I sign up for Angelina Jolie? I'll even take Brad Pitt if it's a package deal so the government would also have to force polygamist marriages...dang, this gets so complicated)

you just made the case against gay marriage

because the next natural legal step is multiple marriages of all forms and numbers. If a gay union of two people is called a marriage then there is no possible legal defense that can be brought against polygamy and bigamy or all forms. Maybe you and your "partner" can bring your dog into the "marriage".

Oh Fishy...you have no idea how much folks like you help marriage equality along...

As I have told you many times, I am in favor of equality for everyone. I want you and your lesbian lover to have equal rights to inheritence, insurance, joint ownership, taxes, and everything else. I want your relationship and committment to be legally recognized in every state.

But two women in a committed legal union is NOT a marriage. If the govt calls it a marriage, then the door is thrown open for all forms of joining, copulating, and co-habitating in "marriages".

Our statutes should establish homosexual two person civil unions as equal in every way to a man/woman marriage.

But I forgot--------its not equality that you really want. What you really want is government mandated societal acceptance of an abnormal life style. THATS why you are so hung up on the word 'marriage'.

Until you admit that, its a waste of time to discuss this.

 

[Silhouette]

When the state seeks to impose its will upon the churches of the land, bloodshed is a heartbeat away.

No. In our country, the state does not have the authority to dictate what the church must *allow*.

So if churches should be allowed refuse to marry homosexuals couples, should they be allowed to refuse to marry mixed race couples if it goes against their doctrine?

No, of course not. Race is covered under the 14th. A cult of just some types of deviant sexual behaviors is not covered under the 14th.

You ask the easiest questions.

 

[KNB]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

Do you include mosques in that sentiment?

You'll have to forgive KNB. S/he is a little snippy since Hobby Lobby. S/he knows that in Utah where gay marraige vs Utah is pending appeal to SCOTUS, 2/3rds of the religious state rejected gay marriage.

"Religious state"?

Explain how that is Constitutional.

Come on, really. Have you read the First Amendment? Do you even remember that we're supposed to have a Constitution?

Go ahead and support the Mormon "religious state" of Utah. Be sure to emphasize how much you LOVE democracy, too. It's the epitome of Democracy, right? The People of the State of Utah voted to respect an establishment of religion which bans gay marriage.

That is entirely unconstitutional.

 

[BlackSand]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

If it is a lie ... What Hell are you talking about burning in?

.

 

[KNB]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

If it is a lie ... What Hell are you talking about burning in?

Facetious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Trust me, there is nothing waiting for us when we die. No thought, no vision, no senses, nothing. Religion is an outdated lie which tries to explain the universe to simpletons. Much in the same way that the story of Santa Claus is used to condition children to behave a certain way, religion is a story used to condition societies to behave a certain way.

But since humanity is capable of great acts of kindness and simultaneously great acts of evil, the contradictions inherent in human nature carry into humanity's religions, causing an irreconcilable dichotomy within the teachings of the religion. Contradictions such as "God loves you unconditionally, unless you don't believe in Him in which case He will punish you forever in lava." Religion is a very bad, very sick joke which has been used to justify some of the worst atrocities that humans can think of.

The sooner that people realize that we don't need religion to explain the world to us anymore, the sooner we can begin to look at the reality of our situation and stop looking for salvation and redemption in the clouds and start to work together towards salvation and redemption here on Earth, because this is the only home that We the Human Race will ever know.

The major religions even try to tell us that this world is unimportant, and we shouldn't care about what happens here because "Heaven" is forever. Heaven doesn't exist. It is a lie. We need to work to stop the lies which are destroying our home and killing our people. One of the lies that is causing strife and misery for humans is the idea that gay marriage will somehow destroy civilization. It won't. That is a religious lie that should be identified and rejected.

 

[Silhouette]

Do you include mosques in that sentiment?

You'll have to forgive KNB. S/he is a little snippy since Hobby Lobby. S/he knows that in Utah where gay marraige vs Utah is pending appeal to SCOTUS, 2/3rds of the religious state rejected gay marriage.

"Religious state"?

Explain how that is Constitutional.

Come on, really. Have you read the First Amendment? Do you even remember that we're supposed to have a Constitution?

Go ahead and support the Mormon "religious state" of Utah. Be sure to emphasize how much you LOVE democracy, too. It's the epitome of Democracy, right? The People of the State of Utah voted to respect an establishment of religion which bans gay marriage.

That is entirely unconstitutional.

You interviewed each individual voter in Utah did you? How many of them, for example, voted against gay marriage because in their state marriage is the only way you can adopt kids. Maybe some of them saw something similar in the picture of this OP and decided they didn't want gays to access orphans in their state via marriage [among many other possibilities for limiting marriage to a man and a woman by the millions of voters in that state]: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-forced-to-adopt-orphans-to-these-people.html

 

[KNB]

"Religious state". Your words.

Unconstitutional.

 

[Silhouette]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

If it is a lie ... What Hell are you talking about burning in?

Facetious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Trust me, there is nothing waiting for us when we die. No thought, no vision, no senses, nothing. Religion is an outdated lie which tries to explain the universe to simpletons. Much in the same way that the story of Santa Claus is used to condition children to behave a certain way, religion is a story used to condition societies to behave a certain way.

But since humanity is capable of great acts of kindness and simultaneously great acts of evil, the contradictions inherent in human nature carry into humanity's religions, causing an irreconcilable dichotomy within the teachings of the religion. Contradictions such as "God loves you unconditionally, unless you don't believe in Him in which case He will punish you forever in lava." Religion is a very bad, very sick joke which has been used to justify some of the worst atrocities that humans can think of.

The sooner that people realize that we don't need religion to explain the world to us anymore, the sooner we can begin to look at the reality of our situation and stop looking for salvation and redemption in the clouds and start to work together towards salvation and redemption here on Earth, because this is the only home that We the Human Race will ever know.

The major religions even try to tell us that this world is unimportant, and we shouldn't care about what happens here because "Heaven" is forever. Heaven doesn't exist. It is a lie. We need to work to stop the lies which are destroying our home and killing our people. One of the lies that is causing strife and misery for humans is the idea that gay marriage will somehow destroy civilization. It won't. That is a religious lie that should be identified and rejected.

Trust you!?

I've had a near death experience and I can tell you for a fact that what I experienced and saw means that not only is this existence the ephemeral one, but that on the other side of the veil we are most definitely held accountable for our actions, that there is a Big Plan for our incarnation here and what we do here is work in order to really test our mettle in the perinneal plane.

This place is just a gym where we work out. The real McCoy is a higher plane than here.

Another thing that was revealed to me is that the constructs in religions, some of them anyway, are framework around which these lessons here are built. There is a fair degree of permissiveness in freedoms here because the lessons are meant to test the free and their own impetus to remain decent. Without the freedoms, there would be no lessons. However, destroying the framework of the base constructs of this world is a big No No.

And that's why Jude 1 is such an important warning. Though, there are others in other religions that come nearly as close to the bullseye as Jude 1. Gender-blending Ist Verboten. And that is because the two distinct genders and their functions as mother/father to children are one of the favorite constructs of the Big Plan....one of the most functional and useful "classrooms" for teaching and learning in.

 

[BlackSand]

Churches should burn in Hell because religion is the single greatest lie in all of human history.

If it is a lie ... What Hell are you talking about burning in?

Facetious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Trust me, there is nothing waiting for us when we die. No thought, no vision, no senses, nothing. Religion is an outdated lie which tries to explain the universe to simpletons. Much in the same way that the story of Santa Claus is used to condition children to behave a certain way, religion is a story used to condition societies to behave a certain way.

But since humanity is capable of great acts of kindness and simultaneously great acts of evil, the contradictions inherent in human nature carry into humanity's religions, causing an irreconcilable dichotomy within the teachings of the religion. Contradictions such as "God loves you unconditionally, unless you don't believe in Him in which case He will punish you forever in lava." Religion is a very bad, very sick joke which has been used to justify some of the worst atrocities that humans can think of.

The sooner that people realize that we don't need religion to explain the world to us anymore, the sooner we can begin to look at the reality of our situation and stop looking for salvation and redemption in the clouds and start to work together towards salvation and redemption here on Earth, because this is the only home that We the Human Race will ever know.

The major religions even try to tell us that this world is unimportant, and we shouldn't care about what happens here because "Heaven" is forever. Heaven doesn't exist. It is a lie. We need to work to stop the lies which are destroying our home and killing our people. One of the lies that is causing strife and misery for humans is the idea that gay marriage will somehow destroy civilization. It won't. That is a religious lie that should be identified and rejected.

I didn't ask you for a fucking essay explaining what you do or don't believe in ... I asked you "What Hell you are talking about burning in" ... If religion is a lie.

.

 

[JakeStarkey]

85% loony vote equal loony vote. When dealing with folks like you who are delusional, the guidance is always to keep repeating, "Sil, no, that is not rational, this is what is rational."

Windsor, Sil, is not what you think it is; we have been over and over it, and you are still wrong.

HL is about abortifacents not marriage equality. Focus, Sil, focus.

So the overwhelming majority who believes these people shouldn't be able to use a loophole via marriage to legally adopt are "looney"? http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-forced-to-adopt-orphans-to-these-people.html

HL, again, is about abortifacents not marriage equality.

There is no loophole in the law.

Marriage equality is a civil right protected by the 14th Amendment.

Those are the rocks against which all of your arguments founder.

 

[RWHeathenGamer]

I have changed my view, due to the insightful arguments made by brilliant individuals such as jake starkey, I think Churches that receive tax exemptions and engage in charitable acts(like food drives, community fairs), fall under the commerce clause and the equal protection clause and must be "compelled" to offer gay marriage services.

If they want to be homophobic bigots and generally prejudiced shitlords, they can do so, but they need to lose their tax exemption and stop engaging in commerce and providing public accommodations to their community.

This will be interesting, will bigoted conservatives be willing to forgo their greed and lose the tax exemption, or do they value excluding homosexuals from getting married more so than engaging their community.?

 

[RWHeathenGamer]

If you bigots, don't like it, why don't you call for abolishing the commerce clause and the 14th amendment. You are allowed a process for doing that, oh wait you know you can't lol.

Us gay loving patriotic americans will continue to carry out the egalitarian, secular, liberal, and sexually libertine agenda of the founding fathers and preserve the original intent of the Constitution.