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Should affirmative action policies be based on class rather than race?

lg325

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I agree. It should be based on class and need.
 

Resnic

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We have had 40 years of racial preference in higher ed admissions, in favor of blacks, for close to two generations. Is it time to base It on socio-economic family status rather than skin color? Three points for consideration:

1) For activist blacks and self-loathing whites who will claim this will hurt black kids’ opportunities, bear in mind that blacks are, as a group, poorer than whites and would thus still garner a disproportionate share of the benefit.

2) Why should Johnny, the son of a dentist and a teacher (I use this example because the black couple who lived across the street when I was a teen were a dentist and a teacher), have admissions standards lowered for him because of his skin color, when he went to school in an affluent area and whose parents could pay for tutoring, and who didn’t need an after-school job and thus could devote all his time to study?

3) Conversely, why should the poor white boy who grew up in a fourth-floor walk-up in Brooklyn, who had to go straight from school to his part-time job to help his family put food on the table and thus had less free time for study, but who STILL - despite this - managed to have better grades and scores than Johnny (above), lose out his college slot to a less-qualified black kid because of skin color?

Wouldn‘t it be more fair to base affirmative action on family SES than skin color?


It shouldn't even exist. Not anymore. We have laws and such now to guarantee equal treatment across the board.

And for anyone that says we don't have equal treatment I point out the millions of doctors, lawyers, police chiefs, congressmen, company owners, ceos, and so on that are women, black, brown etc. Hell we had a black president, twice. I also point out the millions of broke ass and poor, disadvantaged white people in America.

Anyone can succeed in America. The problem is not everyone is the same and people have different levels of potential and ambition. My wife is middle class successful and is smart and responsible and does well, her brother raised in the same house as her is a fucking stupid moron dope head that's been in prison a lot and won't ever rise above his current level.

This idea were all equal and all can be astro physicists is truly ignorant of reality. There will be successful people and unsuccessful people, always has been and always will be.

We should have all have equal opportunity to accelerate, and we do, but not all of us will or can.

No one deserves any special treatment just for their bank account or skin color or gender. That's the opposite of fair.

And if someone is rich they aren't doing anything wrong by taking advantage of it. I mean I am not rich, but I take advantage of my status over poor people because I can afford to and people richer than me can afford advantages I can't, and ones richer than them do so also.

We have laws for this stuff. Beyond that we should be pushing for working hard, obeying the law, and having personal responsibility. Bill Cosby (rapings aside) was a great man because he was a poor ass ghetto kid that succeeded despite it because he worked hard, took responsibility and had ambition.

Skip to 1:30

 

Otis Mayfield

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Why base it on economic status?

Remove all government protections, laws, police.

Let the last man standing get it all!
 
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Lisa558

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Why base it on economic status?

Remove all government protections, laws, police.

Let the last man standing get it all!
As I recall, you’re a leftist and thus it’s understandable you’d want to eliminate laws and police.

But this is a different question: should we continue to give extra advantages to a middle class black kid over a lower-income white kid, especially when the latter has better grades? Or are you saying you’d be OK with a merit-based ONLY policy, knowing that it would result in fewer black kids getting in?
 

Juicin

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We have had 40 years of racial preference in higher ed admissions, in favor of blacks, for close to two generations. Is it time to base It on socio-economic family status rather than skin color? Three points for consideration:

1) For activist blacks and self-loathing whites who will claim this will hurt black kids’ opportunities, bear in mind that blacks are, as a group, poorer than whites and would thus still garner a disproportionate share of the benefit.

2) Why should Johnny, the son of a dentist and a teacher (I use this example because the black couple who lived across the street when I was a teen were a dentist and a teacher), have admissions standards lowered for him because of his skin color, when he went to school in an affluent area and whose parents could pay for tutoring, and who didn’t need an after-school job and thus could devote all his time to study?

3) Conversely, why should the poor white boy who grew up in a fourth-floor walk-up in Brooklyn, who had to go straight from school to his part-time job to help his family put food on the table and thus had less free time for study, but who STILL - despite this - managed to have better grades and scores than Johnny (above), lose out his college slot to a less-qualified black kid because of skin color?

Wouldn‘t it be more fair to base affirmative action on family SES than skin color?


Class ends up with the same problems, it's just AA by a different name

Not to mention income bracket/net worth are easily manipulable

We would need a stronger financial reporting system to truly move to a class based system. And different rules on hiding your wealth/income.

Functionally this is done by just taking top students from all schools...Including very bad schools....Who generally do not perform as well as a huge swath of students in nicer schools. Easy to be top of your class when no one else can read.
 

Dekster

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Or, you know, we could just make college for anyone who has some aptitude free which will incentivize colleges to expand capacity
 
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Lisa558

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Or, you know, we could just make college for anyone who has some aptitude free which will incentivize colleges to expand capacity
1) Where would the government get the money for that? If we print even more, we would drive inflation even higher.

2) Colleges, knowing the government will pay, will be incentivized to expand the definition of “aptitude” and let in every Tom, Dick, and Harry in order to get all those government payments - and lower the caliber of college to the high school level, rendering it meaningless.
 

WinterBorn

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That GD faggot bastard is so incompetent. Mayor of a shit hole town and lost everything he ran for

Every time I see that faggot I see him sucking a dick

I didn't ask about whether he is competent. I was referring to your post saying:
"look at all the incompetents like Harris and Buttaplug who are the face of Affirmative Action
Buttplugug because he is a filthy rotten dirty bottom and Harris because she is a Schvartze and female"
 

WinterBorn

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Progs have had opportunities to change this if Repubs would not. As you see plainly, Joe talks about being from the streets and is a peasant, but he hobnobs with the wealthy.

Both parties cater to the rich. It is how one gets elected in our system. They need big donors, both private and corporate, to get elected. Only a fool thinks all those people and companies donate out of the goodness of their heart.
 

Dekster

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1) Where would the government get the money for that? If we print even more, we would drive inflation even higher.

2) Colleges, knowing the government will pay, will be incentivized to expand the definition of “aptitude” and let in every Tom, Dick, and Harry in order to get all those government payments - and lower the caliber of college to the high school level, rendering it meaningless.
Well conservatives already think education is meaningless so who really cares what they think.
 
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Lisa558

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Well conservatives already think education is meaningless so who really cares what they think.
Since when do conservatives think education is meaningless? That’s why they want to get rid of all the nonsense they teach in schools, and get back to academic basics.

And if I thought education was meaningless, why would I suggest a revamp of the racist AA policies to a race-blind policy where bright, motivated, POOR kids (even the white ones) get a chance at a decent education?

I swear…..you lefties are so full of hate for people who don’t agree with the New Liberalism that all you can do is respond to a well-articulated post is a brief and of course false insult. How about addressing the core point of my OP: shouldn’t a poor boy with high grades and exam scores get admitted to a program ahead of a middle-class black boy with worse grades and scores?
 

struth

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We have had 40 years of racial preference in higher ed admissions, in favor of blacks, for close to two generations. Is it time to base It on socio-economic family status rather than skin color? Three points for consideration:

1) For activist blacks and self-loathing whites who will claim this will hurt black kids’ opportunities, bear in mind that blacks are, as a group, poorer than whites and would thus still garner a disproportionate share of the benefit.

2) Why should Johnny, the son of a dentist and a teacher (I use this example because the black couple who lived across the street when I was a teen were a dentist and a teacher), have admissions standards lowered for him because of his skin color, when he went to school in an affluent area and whose parents could pay for tutoring, and who didn’t need an after-school job and thus could devote all his time to study?

3) Conversely, why should the poor white boy who grew up in a fourth-floor walk-up in Brooklyn, who had to go straight from school to his part-time job to help his family put food on the table and thus had less free time for study, but who STILL - despite this - managed to have better grades and scores than Johnny (above), lose out his college slot to a less-qualified black kid because of skin color?

Wouldn‘t it be more fair to base affirmative action on family SES than skin color?

It should be outlawed completely...it's a clear violation of the US Constitution, even if it had good intentions, it still violates the equal protection clause, and discriminates against people The Govt should not be in the discrimination business
 
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Lisa558

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It should be outlawed completely...it's a clear violation of the US Constitution, even if it had good intentions, it still violates the equal protection clause, and discriminates against people The Govt should not be in the discrimination business
Yes, that’s another way to do it: have NO admissions bias at all. Let the brightest, motivated, most capable kids get into the educational programs of their choice, and have needs-based tuition assistance available for the bright poor kids who got in under their own merits, but don’t have the money.

One way to do it is to have a system where the top 5% of kids in any state get an automatic “tuition paid” scholarship to the State University if their family income is less than a specific amount (say, $60,000).

It‘s a twist on the Pell Grants, where anybody from a modest-earning home (it tapers out at around $60k) gets as much as $6000 a year regardless of how poor their grades are. Under the new system, kids would get more - enough to cover tuition at State U - but only if they are exceptionally bright and motivated. We could also have a national “base” GPA, sort of the way Phi Beta Kappa has a base, that would require a minimum of say, 3.6 to qualify.
 

22lcidw

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I didn't ask about whether he is competent. I was referring to your post saying:
"look at all the incompetents like Harris and Buttaplug who are the face of Affirmative Action
Buttplugug because he is a filthy rotten dirty bottom and Harris because she is a Schvartze and female"
But you are not asking while they have abilities. They are controlling a massive government and are not that good. The video of Buttigieg in an SUV taking a bike out of it tells you everything. Trump tells you fast food and eats it.
 

AMart

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If you are talking about university admissions to public schools there should be no racial ethnic bias period. But news flash state universities do 2 things that should piss you off. First they always set is aside x amount of slots for out of state students and x amount for foreign students because they can charge those students 2-3 times more than in state students. As an example since winterborn is from Alabama..............
in state tuition $10,780
out of state tuition $30,250
No wonder the majority of students at Alabama are out of state.
 

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