Ronald Reagan, Heretic

David_42

Registered Democrat.
Aug 9, 2015
3,616
833
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This thread is not what you think it is right wingers.. the more I look back on Reagan, the more I realize how truly nuts the modern GOP has become.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/opinion/timothy-egan-ronald-reagan-heretic.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
In just under two weeks, the Republicans who want to be president will gather in Simi Valley, Calif., at the presidential library of Ronald Reagan for their second debate. You can expect much brown-nosing, bloviating and outright fabricating in homage to the patron saint of all true conservatives, the charming 40th president.

If only the candidates were truthful to the man and his record. For the real Ronald Reagan — serial tax-raiser, illegal immigrant amnesty granter, deficit creator, abortion enabler, gun control supporter and peacenik — would never be allowed on the stage. The party has moved so far to the right from Reagan’s many centrist positions that the guy would be told to go find a home among the Democrats.

More than three decades after Reagan was first elected, his name is invoked, like political Tourette’s syndrome, by everyone from Scott Walker to Donald Trump. But there’s a gaping disconnect among Republicans between the Reagan worship of 2015 and the reality of his long, public career.

Start with immigration, and the police-state proposals that have driven Trump to the top of Republican polls. As president, Reagan signed a bill that granted amnesty to nearly three million people who were in this country illegally. And then he went a step further, acting on his own after signing the first bill, to extend amnesty to another 100,000 people.

Reagan would never back the authoritarian roundup and deportation that Trump advocates, or the Big Brother tracking of immigrants “like FedEx packages,” as Gov. Chris Christie has proposed.

While Trump vows to build a giant wall, Reagan is best known for four words: “tear down this wall.” He was referring to the Berlin barrier, but he could have been talking about obstructions for immigrants from south of the border. “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here for some time and may have entered illegally,” said President Reagan. You can hear the boos in the Reagan Library should any Republican say such a thing today.

Taxes. Yes, Reagan reduced the top rate, which was onerously high. But he was no absolutist, as required under the senseless no-new-taxes-ever pledge that all Republicans are supposed to take. Reagan raised taxes at least four times during his two terms in office, and 11 times by some readings of the record.

He had to do this because the federal deficit and the size of government ballooned all out of proportion while he was president. Yep, with Reagan the government-hater in charge, the size of the federal government grew to 5.3 million employees, and the federal debt nearly tripled, to $2.9 trillion. What’s more, he raised the debt ceiling — something modern Republicans are willing to shut down the whole shebang over — 18 times. Heretic!

What about social issues — the bedrock of values? It’s a given that Republican candidates oppose abortion in nearly all cases. Some of them want the government to reach into the bodies of American women and declare zygotes to be people, protected by an intrusive federal intervener.

And the sainted Reagan? Yes, he mouthed the pro-life line, while doing next to nothing for the cause as president. But if you want to see an act of real consequence, turn to the abortion liberalization bill that Reagan signed as governor of California in 1967. Legal abortions in his state went from 518 a year to nearly a million over the next decade.

Want to hear another round of catcalls? Let’s talk guns. Shot by a crazy man, Reagan became an advocate of sensible firearms legislation. He backed the Brady Bill — named for his wounded press secretary — that was signed by President Clinton. It required background checks for criminals, and a waiting period. He also supported an assault weapons ban, as most Americans still do. His words against assault weapons are credited with helping the ban pass a reluctant Congress in the Clinton era.
Relevant:
1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into lawthe largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan wasnever able to get the deficit under control.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980’s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officialssecretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto wasoverridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
 
Last edited:
Reagan would be scared of what the republican party has become...He wanted to fund infrastructure, science, r&d and education....

Todays republicans on the far right are nothing more then loserterians that hate government and want to be ruled by the corporate office.
 
The thread title is inaccurate. It should say:

David_42, Imbecile
Psst, boed, reagan would be labeled a communist by you guys.
He was labeled a fascist by you guys.
Eat shit. If the best you can do is resurrect a president who has been out of office for 30 years and dead for over 10 then you're pretty small potatoes.
Yeah, Imbecile works for you.
 
The thread title is inaccurate. It should say:

David_42, Imbecile
Psst, boed, reagan would be labeled a communist by you guys.
He was labeled a fascist by you guys.
Eat shit. If the best you can do is resurrect a president who has been out of office for 30 years and dead for over 10 then you're pretty small potatoes.
Yeah, Imbecile works for you.
Who labels reagan a fascist when he was a moderate?
 
Who labels reagan a fascist when he was a moderate?

By today's standard's, Reagan might be considered a moderate. By the standards of the 1960's and 1970's, Reagan was considered to be a right-wing crazy - 50 paces to the right of Attila the Hun. The last thing anyone would have considered Reagan to be was a moderate. The US, in general, has moved so far to the right that today, Reagan is considered a moderate. It is this sharp right turn which the US made in 1980 which has resulted in the mass welfare state the US finds itself in.

Workers no longer get paid a living wage. 47% of your citizens live in such poverty that they pay no income taxes, and receive public assistance by way of "earned income credits" and other expensive forms of social assistance, in order to make ends meet. In the meantime, corporations are awash in cash, much of it earned off the backs of underpaid laborers, both in the US and in Third World countries. This is the direct result of the economic reforms instituted by the Reagan Administration. Since Reagan's right wing reform of the US economy wages have stagnated, profits have soared, as have the income of the top 20%, but everyone else is worse off.

When 80% of the population is losing ground in income and wealth, year after year, your economic model is not sustainable. But right wingers still want to cut taxes and spending in order to stimulate the economy, despite the fact that it doesn't work, has never worked, and has been flat out disastrous every time it's been tried. Jeb Bush has said that an increase in the "earned income credit" is a better way of dealing with low income workers than raising the minimum age. Better for whom???? Certainly not low income workers since they are made to feel like welfare recipients receiving government assistance. Not for the taxpayers who foot the bill. But a profitable windfall for low wage service industry and retail mega-corporations who are racking up record profits on taxpayer subsidies to their workers.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
 
Progs win the Goebbels Big Lie Award.

If taxes were lower when Reagan left office, how big of a lying doucgebag must you be to claim he was a serial tax raiser
 
This thread is not what you think it is right wingers.. the more I look back on Reagan, the more I realize how truly nuts the modern GOP has become.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/opinion/timothy-egan-ronald-reagan-heretic.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
In just under two weeks, the Republicans who want to be president will gather in Simi Valley, Calif., at the presidential library of Ronald Reagan for their second debate. You can expect much brown-nosing, bloviating and outright fabricating in homage to the patron saint of all true conservatives, the charming 40th president.

If only the candidates were truthful to the man and his record. For the real Ronald Reagan — serial tax-raiser, illegal immigrant amnesty granter, deficit creator, abortion enabler, gun control supporter and peacenik — would never be allowed on the stage. The party has moved so far to the right from Reagan’s many centrist positions that the guy would be told to go find a home among the Democrats.

More than three decades after Reagan was first elected, his name is invoked, like political Tourette’s syndrome, by everyone from Scott Walker to Donald Trump. But there’s a gaping disconnect among Republicans between the Reagan worship of 2015 and the reality of his long, public career.

Start with immigration, and the police-state proposals that have driven Trump to the top of Republican polls. As president, Reagan signed a bill that granted amnesty to nearly three million people who were in this country illegally. And then he went a step further, acting on his own after signing the first bill, to extend amnesty to another 100,000 people.

Reagan would never back the authoritarian roundup and deportation that Trump advocates, or the Big Brother tracking of immigrants “like FedEx packages,” as Gov. Chris Christie has proposed.

While Trump vows to build a giant wall, Reagan is best known for four words: “tear down this wall.” He was referring to the Berlin barrier, but he could have been talking about obstructions for immigrants from south of the border. “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here for some time and may have entered illegally,” said President Reagan. You can hear the boos in the Reagan Library should any Republican say such a thing today.

Taxes. Yes, Reagan reduced the top rate, which was onerously high. But he was no absolutist, as required under the senseless no-new-taxes-ever pledge that all Republicans are supposed to take. Reagan raised taxes at least four times during his two terms in office, and 11 times by some readings of the record.

He had to do this because the federal deficit and the size of government ballooned all out of proportion while he was president. Yep, with Reagan the government-hater in charge, the size of the federal government grew to 5.3 million employees, and the federal debt nearly tripled, to $2.9 trillion. What’s more, he raised the debt ceiling — something modern Republicans are willing to shut down the whole shebang over — 18 times. Heretic!

What about social issues — the bedrock of values? It’s a given that Republican candidates oppose abortion in nearly all cases. Some of them want the government to reach into the bodies of American women and declare zygotes to be people, protected by an intrusive federal intervener.

And the sainted Reagan? Yes, he mouthed the pro-life line, while doing next to nothing for the cause as president. But if you want to see an act of real consequence, turn to the abortion liberalization bill that Reagan signed as governor of California in 1967. Legal abortions in his state went from 518 a year to nearly a million over the next decade.

Want to hear another round of catcalls? Let’s talk guns. Shot by a crazy man, Reagan became an advocate of sensible firearms legislation. He backed the Brady Bill — named for his wounded press secretary — that was signed by President Clinton. It required background checks for criminals, and a waiting period. He also supported an assault weapons ban, as most Americans still do. His words against assault weapons are credited with helping the ban pass a reluctant Congress in the Clinton era.
Relevant:
1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into lawthe largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan wasnever able to get the deficit under control.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980’s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officialssecretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto wasoverridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.


Don't forget Democrat Charlie Wilson's role in #10. Liberals always call conservatives nuts when they run out of gas.
 
The thread title is inaccurate. It should say:

David_42, Imbecile
Psst, boed, reagan would be labeled a communist by you guys.
He was labeled a fascist by you guys.
Eat shit. If the best you can do is resurrect a president who has been out of office for 30 years and dead for over 10 then you're pretty small potatoes.
Yeah, Imbecile works for you.
As if the Right doesn't bring up Reagan in every conversation or debate.
 
The thread title is inaccurate. It should say:

David_42, Imbecile
Psst, boed, reagan would be labeled a communist by you guys.
He was labeled a fascist by you guys.
Eat shit. If the best you can do is resurrect a president who has been out of office for 30 years and dead for over 10 then you're pretty small potatoes.
Yeah, Imbecile works for you.
As if the Right doesn't bring up Reagan in every conversation or debate.

I call shenanigans.

A simple perusal of a few threads in the political forum proves you wrong.

So, you lose.
 
Last edited:
The thread title is inaccurate. It should say:

David_42, Imbecile
Psst, boed, reagan would be labeled a communist by you guys.
He was labeled a fascist by you guys.
Eat shit. If the best you can do is resurrect a president who has been out of office for 30 years and dead for over 10 then you're pretty small potatoes.
Yeah, Imbecile works for you.
As if the Right doesn't bring up Reagan in every conversation or debate.

I call shenanigans.

A simple perusal of a few threads in the political forum prove you wrong.

So, you lose.
Leftists start threads on Reagan here about once a week at least. And they write posts about Reagan at least once a day, usually totally off topic.
 
Reagan would be scared of what the republican party has become...He wanted to fund infrastructure, science, r&d and education....

Todays republicans on the far right are nothing more then loserterians that hate government and want to be ruled by the corporate office.
I just saw Reagan in an old movie. Horrible
 

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