Rising Fascism USA - Right Now

[Quasar44]

kyzr
That sounds like utter fascism

 

[Osiris-ODS]

Get the vaccine, don't be stupid. It has nothing to do with "freedom" it has to do with stopping the pandemic.
If they ever try to take our guns, sign me up. But for now, just get vaccinated.

The vaccine is not going to stop the pandemic. That is objectively inaccurate. These vaccines are what's known as "infection-permissive non-sterilizing vaccines." Meaning they do not prevent the targeted virus from infecting the vaccinated host or prevent viral replication from occurring. Therefore, not only does the vaccinated host undergo viral shedding (thus transmitting the virus to others), but in addition, the viral replication that occurs in hosts vaccinated with this type of vaccine results in virus variants known as "vaccine-escape mutations." These types of mutations regularly occur with other infection-permissive non-sterilizing vaccines (such as the trivalent influenza vaccines).

Equally significant is the fact that there are at least three known domestic animal viral vectors that are cross-infective with humans (including dogs). That alone makes the mask and vaccine mandates asinine, as it would be impossible to have domestic pets wear masks.

Lastly is the concerns raised by earlier peer reviewed research on the potential for mass vaccination with such vaccines to enhance the transmission of highly virulent variants. See, e.g., Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[kyzr]

Do you know what transmission means? That is a serious question

Do you know what "viral load" is?

Transmission and transmissability is basically how contageous it is.

 

[kyzr]

You keep moving the goal posts.

How am I moving goal posts? I want the pandemic over ASAP.
Vaccinations are the quickest way to "herd immunity"

 

[kyzr]

You’re honestly not “worried” about your heart exploding from a blood clot?
How many other times in your life have you volunteered to be a lab rat and take an experimental vaccine?

If there were serious side-effects they would have shown up already.
That said, I would feel much better if the vaccines had 100% FDA approval.
It bothers me that they aren't fully approved yet, but are now pushing booster shots? WTF?

 

[Indeependent]

I had covid without vaccination.

I have over 10 friends with covid and all were vaccinated.

4 family members with the vaccination, have covid.

The fact is the vaccines were rushed. Vaccines take many years to be approved. That is how it typically works.

These Vaccines were pretty quick in being developed and now we are hearing about the upcoming mandate of a booster.

Uhhh huh..

So, well over 50% of the people I associate myself with have covid after getting the vaccine.

So I am asking. If the Vaccines are so good and trustworthy, why this move to the boosters that will be enforced (trust that?)

Any medical people here want to tell me how the Vaccines aren't working but if I get the booster it will?

Cause the Vaccines that the left are pushing on us..clearly aren't working.

Unless someone can explain why so many with the vaccine are getting covid.

Why is that? Hmmmmm?

The shot lasts about 6 months and we’re giving our booster shots to the countries that don’t provide health care for their own citizens.

 

[kyzr]

The vaccine is not going to stop the pandemic. That is objectively inaccurate. These vaccines are what's known as "infection-permissive non-sterilizing vaccines." Meaning they do not prevent the targeted virus from infecting the vaccinated host or prevent viral replication from occurring. Therefore, not only does the vaccinated host undergo viral shedding (thus transmitting the virus to others), but in addition, the viral replication that occurs in hosts vaccinated with this type of vaccine results in virus variants known as "vaccine-escape mutations." These types of mutations regularly occur with other infection-permissive non-sterilizing vaccines (such as the trivalent influenza vaccines).

Equally significant is the fact that there are at least three known domestic animal viral vectors that are cross-infective with humans (including dogs). That alone makes the mask and vaccine mandates asinine, as it would be impossible to have domestic pets wear masks.

Lastly is the concerns raised by earlier peer reviewed research on the potential for mass vaccination with such vaccines to enhance the transmission of highly virulent variants. See, e.g., Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 528044

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 528043

Thanks for the explanation, I'm sure you know your stuff.
My last straw to grasp is that the vaccines are 92% effective at first, which affords protection.
After 8-months they are saying that a booster shot is needed.

Doesn't it make sense for everyone to get vaccinated?
Or do you think that the FDA is having 2nd thoughts about this batch of vaccines?
I'm not hearing any discussion about a next generation of vaccines that address your concerns.

 

[toobfreak]

How is it that any full-blooded freedom loving American of any background, of any culture or ethnic origin or political slant, would even consider bowing down and kissing the feet of totalitarian rule?

No American would. Which tells you that a great many people in the country are NOT Americans. They live here, maybe have a SS number and a citizenship, but are not Americans.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

If there were serious side-effects they would have shown up already.
That said, I would feel much better if the vaccines had 100% FDA approval.
It bothers me that they aren't fully approved yet, but are now pushing booster shots? WTF?

"If there were serious side-effects they would have shown up already."

That's actual not necessarily true. The type of adverse event that can't be ruled out at this point is something know as "antibody dependent enhancement" (ADE), also know as antibody mediated enhancement. This can occur a couple of different ways, both involving vaccine-produced antibodies cross reacting with a wild variant (a distinct serolog) of the vaccine targeted virus in a vaccinated host. The first type of ADE occurs by those antibodies assisting the wild variant entering macrophages resulting in a highly dangerous immune system inflammatory response known as a "cytokine storm." The other type of ADE occurs by the vaccine produced antibodies cross-reacting with the virus variant and rather than neutralizing the antigen, it results in several virions binding together and infecting the lung cells and causing far more severe respiratory disease.

Now here's the concerning thing. All prior efforts to create a vaccine for other coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV, failed during clinical trials because of the occurrence of the latter form of ADE. So while there's no prior history of macrophagic ADE with these types of viruses, there most certainly is history of the other type.

And because we don't know how the vaccine produced antibodies will cross react with as-yet unknown future variants, the possibility of ADE occurring absolutely can't be ruled out. That's not to say that it definitely will occur, but there certainly is a material potential risk. Also, since this is literally the first time mRNA vaccines have ever been used to create antibodies (by instructing human immune cells to produce the SARS-CoV-2 alpha strain spike protein, thus inducing an antibody response) nobody can say for certain what effect this might have on ADE when vaccinated hosts are exposed to future variants.

In sum, people should be made aware of these risks consistent with informed consent. And nobody should be forced to take the vaccine given that risk, especially with a medical system predicated on this tenet of informed consent. To address the question you asked in your other post (microbiology and physiology were two of my focus areas in undergrad), the FDA is absolutely aware of everything I've stated in this thread, and that is no doubt weighing on their decision of whether to give final approval to these vaccines. Unfortunately I think they are under such intense political pressure to give final approval since that is the only thing holding back many vaccine mandates in both the government and private sector, I fear they may cave to that pressure rather than making the correct scientific decision to wait until we know more about cross reactivity with future variants.

 

[frigidweirdo]

At this present moment (checking my watch) August 18, 2021, the population of these United States appears to be divided, actively, into two main groups: Americans who accept overt, blatant COVID-19 vaccine dictatorships arisen recently in their local governments and private businesses, and Americans (in the minority) who could be preparing to resist this developing tyranny with force of arms or by the sword, so to speak.

How is it that any full-blooded freedom loving American of any background, of any culture or ethnic origin or political slant, would even consider bowing down and kissing the feet of totalitarian rule? That is the question on the minds of many of my fellow countrymen today. If YOU, as an American, love the freedoms you were born entitled to exercise, such as walking or driving anywhere you choose, shopping anyplace you like, or choosing to decline ANY medical procedure without punishment, then there's just no way in Hell YOU can support, promote or stand for taking it up the ass with a public government or private employer/business mandated COVID vaccination. And if YOU are (taking it up the ass, at the point of a forced dripping needle) you can no longer call, classify or think of yourself as a FREE human being, let alone a free citizen of these United States.

New York City and some other places here in the U.S. are forging the way, as we speak, into totalitarian rule and iron fisted enforcement of totalitarian edicts. While there's no way to accurately predict the near future, many of my fellow veterans, close friends and some family members are scared shitless today thinking tomorrow will bring vaccine mandates from their employers, local governments and/or the places they buy food, clothing, etc. Personally, that pisses me off—seeing fear in the eyes of those I care for most.

And what about our children? What about those born and those yet to come? What kind of future do all you parents out there beyond internet land hope your children get to have? A future where some teapot local dictator or Walmart manager forces them to get an experimental injection in order to fucking survive in society on a day to day basis? Do you want your children to live in constant fear of their government, teachers, fast food workers? If that does not seem like a big deal to you . . . or you believe being vaccinated equals an American's patriotic duty, then you are a broken soul and quite possibly beyond the point of no return as a human being fit to live in a free society.

As an American just how much of your waning freedom are YOU willing to surrender in the name of forced compliance? What politician's whim will be too much for you to swallow? What's next? A murder lottery in the name of population control to save the environment? Will YOU willingly participate in that as well? Who else, today, is feeling sickened by the level of his or her fellow Americans kowtowing to rising COVID dictatorships?

The US has always been divided. It seems people gain from it. They push for division. It's all they know.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

How am I moving goal posts? I want the pandemic over ASAP.
Vaccinations are the quickest way to "herd immunity"

Wrong. Letting the virus run its course is the quickest way to herd immunity.

 

[Skylar]

At this present moment (checking my watch) August 18, 2021, the population of these United States appears to be divided, actively, into two main groups: Americans who accept overt, blatant COVID-19 vaccine dictatorships arisen recently in their local governments and private businesses, and Americans (in the minority) who could be preparing to resist this developing tyranny with force of arms or by the sword, so to speak.

How is it that any full-blooded freedom loving American of any background, of any culture or ethnic origin or political slant, would even consider bowing down and kissing the feet of totalitarian rule? That is the question on the minds of many of my fellow countrymen today. If YOU, as an American, love the freedoms you were born entitled to exercise, such as walking or driving anywhere you choose, shopping anyplace you like, or choosing to decline ANY medical procedure without punishment, then there's just no way in Hell YOU can support, promote or stand for taking it up the ass with a public government or private employer/business mandated COVID vaccination. And if YOU are (taking it up the ass, at the point of a forced dripping needle) you can no longer call, classify or think of yourself as a FREE human being, let alone a free citizen of these United States.

New York City and some other places here in the U.S. are forging the way, as we speak, into totalitarian rule and iron fisted enforcement of totalitarian edicts. While there's no way to accurately predict the near future, many of my fellow veterans, close friends and some family members are scared shitless today thinking tomorrow will bring vaccine mandates from their employers, local governments and/or the places they buy food, clothing, etc. Personally, that pisses me off—seeing fear in the eyes of those I care for most.

And what about our children? What about those born and those yet to come? What kind of future do all you parents out there beyond internet land hope your children get to have? A future where some teapot local dictator or Walmart manager forces them to get an experimental injection in order to fucking survive in society on a day to day basis? Do you want your children to live in constant fear of their government, teachers, fast food workers? If that does not seem like a big deal to you . . . or you believe being vaccinated equals an American's patriotic duty, then you are a broken soul and quite possibly beyond the point of no return as a human being fit to live in a free society.

As an American just how much of your waning freedom are YOU willing to surrender in the name of forced compliance? What politician's whim will be too much for you to swallow? What's next? A murder lottery in the name of population control to save the environment? Will YOU willingly participate in that as well? Who else, today, is feeling sickened by the level of his or her fellow Americans kowtowing to rising COVID dictatorships?

I don't think fascism means what you think it means. As it has jack shit to do with vaccines.

 

[Skylar]

Wrong. Letting the virus run its course is the quickest way to herd immunity.

Save of course for four problems:

1) The drop in anti-bodies over time among those who have had COVID. Rita Hanks, Tom's wife.....had COVID and now no longer has detectable anti-bodies protecting her. Its entirely possible to catch COVID multiple times.
2) The mutating virus. We're on the Lamda variant already, and the anti-bodies against 1 variant aren't necessary as effective against another. This only exacertabted by the precipitous drop in anti-bodies over time.
3) The massive death toll. Letting COVID run through our population would kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans. Even with vaccines, masks, social distancing and lockdowns, we've still lost more Americans than we lost to WW2, Korea, and Vietnam combined.
4) The peripheral death toll: all the ICU and hospital beds filled with those dying of COVID aren't available for all the OTHER regular medical emergencies that typically utilize them...car accidents, heart attacks, cancer treatments, surgery recoveries, etc. Resulting in a massive spike in mortality and morbidity rates from most all other unmet medical needs.

Its a terrible, terrible idea to just 'let the virus run'.

 

[j-mac]

If there were serious side-effects they would have shown up already.
That said, I would feel much better if the vaccines had 100% FDA approval.
It bothers me that they aren't fully approved yet, but are now pushing booster shots? WTF?

Wait a minute….you’re bothered about FDA approval but that didn’t seem to be a concern when you chastised everyone to GET THE SHOT in your first response to this thread….Second thoughts?

 

[kyzr]

Wrong. Letting the virus run its course is the quickest way to herd immunity.

How many unnecessary deaths would that option bring?
Intensive cares are at capacity already.

 

[kyzr]

Wait a minute…you're bothered about FDA approval but that didn’t seem to be a concern when you chastised everyone to GET THE SHOT in your first response to this thread…second thoughts?

Exactly, are the vaccines safe or not? You would think that the fucking FDA would have made a call by now.
If they are safe say so and approve them.
If there are issues, then explain them so people can evaluate the risks. I'm old, so I'll take the vaccine over risking covid. Our kids and grandkids may prefer to risk covid over long term vaccine issues.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

How many unnecessary deaths would that option bring?
Intensive cares are at capacity already.

You made a statement I merely corrected it.

 

[j-mac]

Exactly, are the vaccines safe or not? You would think that the fucking FDA would have made a call by now.
If they are safe say so and approve them.
If there are issues, then explain them so people can evaluate the risks. I'm old, so I'll take the vaccine over risking covid. Our kids and grandkids may prefer to risk covid over long term vaccine issues.

Ah but there in lies the problem…You didn’t allow for people to make their own informed decision at first, what changed?