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Riddle me this: Unconstitutional Laws and Judicial Review

Rigby5

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I disagree that the power is illegitimate. I just quoted Marbury where Marshall simply states that they have to consider the constitutionality of any law in the cases before them. If the law is not constitutional then it can't be enforced in the case before them. Marshall's intent was legitimate. Subsequent courts have quit considering the Constitution at all in many of their decisions, choosing what they believe

They technically do not make law and they technically do not throw out unconstitutional laws. They rule in regards to the case before them. Their words set precedent in that any judge or lawyer working a similar case would assume the same outcome so they rule based on that precedent but the Supreme Court order only ever applies to the single case before them... Until the Court got out of control and started making law and ordering generally rather than the case they're considering.

Precedent has always been the real basis for law, not legislation, and it is always for the courts to decide because the source of legal authority comes from inherent rights of individuals, and NOT from government or legislators.
And the inherent rights of individuals not only are infinite and impossible to write down, but they vary as they impact and conflict with each other.
So legislators in effect can only make suggestions for the courts to either agree with or strike down.
Legislation can never be considered law.
Law has to come first and be an abstract principle the legislation supports, the justification and rational for the legislation.
 

LuckyDuck

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View attachment 510003

She is right - something is amiss in the assignment of checks on power.


Where is it in the almighty United States Constitution that gives the Supreme Court the power to annul a congressional act?
The U.S. Constitution IS the Supreme Law of the Land. The Supreme Court, looks at cases brought before it to determine whether or not the case before it, is or is not in violation of the supreme law of the land (Unconstitutional). The the legislature is free to pass a law, but such law MUST NOT violate the supreme law of the land. The Constitution. Some of these politicians will just toss in a proposal that they know will not pass, but do so anyway as a form of posturing to their voting public.
As for indictments, the Supreme Court has no "enforcement" arm, that responsibility rests with the D.O.J. and Attorney General. But, we must keep in mind the following:
1. The legislature has the "freedom" to propose any law their constituents want passed. So, that's technically not a crime.
2. The D.O.J. and Attorney General are political appointees and cater to their base and aren't about to go up against them.
Personally, I think that there "should" be a law which stipulates that if any individual who must swear and oath to the Constitution and can be shown to be actively attempting to undermine the Constitutional Bill of Rights, that individual must be immediately placed under suspension, pending an investigation to confirm such a claim and if upheld, immediately removed from office, whether federal, state, or local, including military personnel.
A subsequent penalty should be added to the Constitution whereby if convicted of trying to undermine our Constitution, you would lose your citizenship and be deported to some nation more in line with your political beliefs.
At this time, we clearly have individuals in power trying to undermine our freedoms and they should be tossed out to China.
 

Rigby5

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The U.S. Constitution IS the Supreme Law of the Land. The Supreme Court, looks at cases brought before it to determine whether or not the case before it, is or is not in violation of the supreme law of the land (Unconstitutional). The the legislature is free to pass a law, but such law MUST NOT violate the supreme law of the land. The Constitution. Some of these politicians will just toss in a proposal that they know will not pass, but do so anyway as a form of posturing to their voting public.
As for indictments, the Supreme Court has no "enforcement" arm, that responsibility rests with the D.O.J. and Attorney General. But, we must keep in mind the following:
1. The legislature has the "freedom" to propose any law their constituents want passed. So, that's technically not a crime.
2. The D.O.J. and Attorney General are political appointees and cater to their base and aren't about to go up against them.
Personally, I think that there "should" be a law which stipulates that if any individual who must swear and oath to the Constitution and can be shown to be actively attempting to undermine the Constitutional Bill of Rights, that individual must be immediately placed under suspension, pending an investigation to confirm such a claim and if upheld, immediately removed from office, whether federal, state, or local, including military personnel.
A subsequent penalty should be added to the Constitution whereby if convicted of trying to undermine our Constitution, you would lose your citizenship and be deported to some nation more in line with your political beliefs.
At this time, we clearly have individuals in power trying to undermine our freedoms and they should be tossed out to China.

Not quite.
The constitution can't be the Supreme Law of the land because first of all it can't be the source of legal authority that authorized the American Revolution or writing of the constitution since it did not yet exist, and second it never even tries to state what is all legal or illegal. For example, it does not establish the right of privacy or declare rape as illegal.
All the constitution really does is separate between what is federal and state jurisdiction, and define the duties and structure of the federal government.
Since it was inherent individual rights that authorized the American Revolution, clearly is it actually inherent individual rights that are the supreme law of the land.
Government is just a hired entity we create in order to help defend our inherent individual rights for us.
And the constitution just prevents state and federal government from getting in each other's way.
The vast majority of the law of the land comes from ancient precedent of British Common Law.
Which is why the judiciary is not nearly as passive as some think it should be.
For it is the judiciary that has to effectively make law when some act or legislation violates an unwritten legal precedent.

1. The legislators do NOT have the freedom to pass what laws they want. They can only pass laws that are necessary in order to defend individual rights. A law that does not do that, like the War on Drugs, 3 strikes, mandatory sentences, etc., is a crime.
2. The fact government is too corrupt to go after its own criminals, is why revolutions become repeatedly necessary. We did not even punish those who lied about WMD in Iraq, and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
 
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Rigby5

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Well, we agree to disagree.

Well it is important to at least remember that government is not a source of legal authority.
Legal authority is not might makes right, the power of the sword, divine right, etc.
It comes from each individual having inherent individual rights.
And government just borrows and leverages no those individual rights by protesting them for us.
 

DGS49

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When each Congress-person takes its oath of office, there is no justification for refusing to assess the Constitutionality of the laws on which they vote. The Constitution is plain enough in most instances, and they are presumably literate.

More specifically, it does not take a Constitutional scholar to recognize that Congress has no power to allocate money to a department of EDUCATION. To an environmental protection agency. To the small business administration. In fact, the Constitution grants no power for Congress to spend even one dime on INDIVIDUAL benefits, whether the subject matter be food, shelter, housing, or healthcare. They have no power to save the [fucking] planet, by whatever means. It is simply not there.

ALL of the unconstitutional spending alluded to in the preceding paragraph has been facilitated and approved by a compliant and illegitimate Supreme Court, which has expanded the expression "commerce among the several states" to mean "anything the Congress wants to do," and approved MASSIVE spending on the thin theory that Social Security and Medicare are not actually Congress spending money; they are Congress arranging for a quasi-trust fund, and spending money out of that fund. Which is preposterous.

As a result of this political cluster-fuck, there is not a single Congress-person who is not totally compromised from the moment s/he casts its first vote. Were they legitimately honoring their respective oaths of office, they would vote down any spending initiative that goes beyond the powers detailed in Article I, Section 8.

It is as though one hired a referree for professional sports contests, and they had to swear an oath to cheat in order to get the job.

"We" are beyond hope...and that's BEFORE the Leftists even started to destroy our "democracy."
 

Rigby5

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DGS49 is correct.
I am extremely far left, progressive, liberal, but legally there can be no federal gun, drug, medical, etc. laws.
Every budget should be balanced unless there is a temporary emergency.
People must never forget that they are the only source of legal authority, and the government, like the police and military, can not legally do anything average people can not also do, (with some certification)
 

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