Read the Stimulus ~ Senate "Compromise" 2/7

[Angel Heart]

Senate "Compromise" 2/7: Page 1

It's long and full of things we just can't afford. Writing checks on an empty account. Only a matter of time before NSF comes back on the checks.

 

[Care4all]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

 

[Gunny]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

 

[Annie]

Lots of money for the banks, but at what cost to those who''ve done nothing wrong?

Geithner's Cash For Trash - Forbes.com

eithner's Cash For Trash
Susan Lee, 02.10.09, 04:36 PM EST
Why no honest write-downs for bad debt?


He came. He spoke. The market tanked. He went. The market tanked some more. Such is the power of Treasury Secretary Geithner.

My spirits pretty much tanked, too. On the No. 1 problem--valuing toxic paper--no details were offered. Instead, Tim Geithner talked about some sort of vague public-private thingie from (or in) which the paper will appear having been miraculously priced. The cost of this mysterious process? Maybe $1 trillion, maybe more.....

 

[Care4all]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

While the value of my house, of which we paid cash for, continues to fall like humpty dumpty.....

if the housing market free fall is not stopped,

NONE OF US EVER will see this country pull out of this recession/depression.....at least none of us middle aged will live that long.

All of this, the trillion and a half and counting to the banks and this near trillion stimulus, does NOT address the housing crisis in any manner what so ever....which includes bringing the toxic assets in to the light of day....or regulation to prevent this from happening again.

I disagree with you on this being all the "people's" fault....you are blaming the victim, when whole sale FRAUD took place in a ponzi scheme that busted us all...while the fed regulation people turned a blind eye.

i do agree with you that we all spend too much and do not save enough....this has been the push of our gvt who supported the bankers and credit lenders instead of us....the past 3 decades.


so with the way things are going, i will help bail out the crooked banks, and pay for the stimulus that does not address the 1 in 6 homes foreclosing now, AND I WILL LOSE HALF THE VALUE of my house....

Wonderful isn't it?

care

 

[dilloduck]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

While the value of my house, of which we paid cash for, continues to fall like humpty dumpty.....

if the housing market free fall is not stopped,

NONE OF US EVER will see this country pull out of this recession/depression.....at least none of us middle aged will live that long.

All of this, the trillion and a half and counting to the banks and this near trillion stimulus, does NOT address the housing crisis in any manner what so ever....which includes bringing the toxic assets in to the light of day....or regulation to prevent this from happening again.

I disagree with you on this being all the "people's" fault....you are blaming the victim, when whole sale FRAUD took place in a ponzi scheme that busted us all...while the fed regulation people turned a blind eye.

i do agree with you that we all spend too much and do not save enough....this has been the push of our gvt who supported the bankers and credit lenders instead of us....the past 3 decades.


so with the way things are going, i will help bail out the crooked banks, and pay for the stimulus that does not address the 1 in 6 homes foreclosing now, AND I WILL LOSE HALF THE VALUE of my house....

Wonderful isn't it?

care

you could be grateful you still have one.

 

[DiamondDave]

Care

You are right that this stimulus does nothing to address housing prices dropping etc..

BUT... I fully believe that the government has no business doing anything about that anyway... your purchase, your house, your choice, your personal situation, your personal responsibility

This has a LOT of blame on the consumer... you sign the bottom line.. if there was fraudulent practices by a bank, mortgage broker, etc, you HAVE LEGAL RECOURSE TO SUE

 

[Lycurgus]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Personal accountability is a lost art in this nation! It's no wonder we do not demand it of Washington!

 

[Bern80]

Interesting/long read. As I said in another thread there are a lot of provisions in this bill that may seem worthy, but if this is as urgent as Obama says it is, one has to question the immediate need of may of the provisions in here. You have billions in here for climate reasearch. A few hundred million for ANOTHER digital converter box coupon program. Billions in research grants. Etc. And much, much more that I didn't get all the way through on.

 

[Zoom-boing]

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

Care

You are right that this stimulus does nothing to address housing prices dropping etc..

BUT... I fully believe that the government has no business doing anything about that anyway... your purchase, your house, your choice, your personal situation, your personal responsibility

This has a LOT of blame on the consumer... you sign the bottom line.. if there was fraudulent practices by a bank, mortgage broker, etc, you HAVE LEGAL RECOURSE TO SUE

without fixing the housing market, it all will be a waste...

again, too much focus on the banks in this bill.... the very people who were neglegent...

It wasn't just the banks that were negligent. Some of you folks need to quit letting the consumer off the hook for allowing their eyeballs to be bigger than their wallet. We as a Nation, not just the banks, have fostered this living beyond our means on credit mentality.

How you control your finances is NOT the responsibility of the US government, the banks, nor anyone else's but your own.

This stimulis is nothing but perpetuating more of the same at the national level and it is only going to put us further in debt; which, will take longer to pay. The US taxpayer should not be held responsible for bailing out financial institutions nor individual citizens because they aren't smart enough to manage their money. WE are the ones who are going to foot this bill by having to pay even more taxes in the future.

Our government is trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hear Democrats whining about capital gains taxes; which is little more than theft, but I don't see them doing a whole Hell of a lot to pass any legislation that would make it worth the while of these corporations to stay here and provide jobs here.

Sone of you folk need to look at what the Hell you're voting for and/or supporting.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Personal accountability is a lost art in this nation! It's no wonder we do not demand it of Washington!

I agree very much with the fact that people have been living beyond their means for a long time and need to realize personal responsibility. But as much as I'd love to see Joe Househog have his house that he 'really couldn't afford because he was too stupid and greedy to be responsible' taken from him cause he can't pay for it now and have him learn the lesson and start over . . . . the bigger picture in all of this is the lack of responsibilty from the government - for putting into play the 'a chicken in every pot; a house on every lot' anthem without adding the all important 'lend only to those who can afford it' -; and the lenders following in step, one, two, one, two. Yes, Joe Househog needs to be responsible; but (and as much as I'm not for the government interferring), the government needs to help the banks in order for the banks to start to rectify this and help these people out so that the country can start to get back on it's feet. The government started this mess, they should be held responsible as well. And yet . . . . it will all fall back onto Joe Taxpayer one way or another, right? This whole thing is making my head hurt.

 

[sealybobo]

Care

You are right that this stimulus does nothing to address housing prices dropping etc..

BUT... I fully believe that the government has no business doing anything about that anyway... your purchase, your house, your choice, your personal situation, your personal responsibility

This has a LOT of blame on the consumer... you sign the bottom line.. if there was fraudulent practices by a bank, mortgage broker, etc, you HAVE LEGAL RECOURSE TO SUE

I didn't do anything wrong, yet I am still being punished. What do you mean it is "our" fault? I put 20% down. I make my payments. I bought in a good area. I even bought low.

Is it your fault your home value went down? Is it your fault your stocks are taking a dump?

Even if the GOP/Corporations/Robber Baron's purposely crashed the economy? Clearly you don't understand Disaster Capitalism.

So why is it my fault my home value went down $30K in value?

Or if I lost my job and eventually my home because I couldn't make the payments. If I lost my job because the GOP allowed too many Corporations to go overseas, isn't it their fault?

Preventing this crisis was the job of the government. Instead, they encouraged it!!! And they were warned this would happen. Who warned them? Us. Unions. Labor. Economists. Democrats.

Because this is happening to thousands of Americans, I disagree with you.

You want this to be an every man for himself society.

 

[sealybobo]

What if this was all done on purpose?

Disaster Capitalists Reap Profits

 

[Care4all]

Care

You are right that this stimulus does nothing to address housing prices dropping etc..

BUT... I fully believe that the government has no business doing anything about that anyway... your purchase, your house, your choice, your personal situation, your personal responsibility

This has a LOT of blame on the consumer... you sign the bottom line.. if there was fraudulent practices by a bank, mortgage broker, etc, you HAVE LEGAL RECOURSE TO SUE

it would be nice to believe that this was all my own personal responsibility and I am the reason for my own home purchase falling in price like a millstone from the empire state building...then i'd have no complaints.

But we were responsible, we paid CASH that we saved for our home back in 2006, the house was listed for $196, then reduced to $169 and the owner took our $156 offer....and it has dropped in value ever since.

This was our preparation for retirement and our nest egg to fall back on with a reverse mortgage if necessary to survive....going down in value was not part of the plan and anyone would not have expected this to be part of the plan....since housing was known for a near century of what actually gave people their wealth in old age from the investment in youth.

I do not understand why the $700 billion given to the banks did not have the requirement that this would all be used to keep people in their homes.....

Nor do I understand why this stimulus will work if they do not focus on keeping people in their own homes?

no one is going to "feel good" about this economy if all of their assets keep dropping in value.

1 in 6 people owning a home now are paying a mortgage worth more than their homes are worth....this will only lead to more people walking away from that mortgage and housing will continue to fall in price....the recession will continue until this hits bottom and it ain't hitting bottom because it is in a downward spin that can't be stopped UNTIL the foreclosures slow down....

we have wasted trillions in the guise of making things better while we never address the actual problem that is making things worse...imo.

if the $700 billion to the banks was used to help refinance people in to the homes they are in at fair market value of them, then the banks would be getting this money from the homeowners through them making their new mortgage payments....and the banks would have been better off, along with the home owner being allowed to refinance, and along with me...because my investment would not be experiencing the FREE FALL downwards....

Many people refinanced their homes to pay for their kids college or medical bills or that new car...that were not first time home buyers....now these homes are worth less than their mortgages....the banks did this refinancing, the banks used APPRAISERS to guarantee what they were loaning was a TRUE VALUE of the home and the borrower trusted the bank and appraisers.... what else should they have done Dave?

Mark my words, if the congress does the investigating that is needed to bring light to this whole ponzi scheme that everyone was in on....you will see the cases of fraud...patience, and a hope for the truth to be found....will show us more than we bargained for in the line of fraud, imho.

care

 

[Zoom-boing]

What if this was all done on purpose?

Disaster Capitalists Reap Profits

From the article:

"It's been ten months since the publication of my book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, in which I argue that today's preferred method of reshaping the world in the interest of multinational corporations is to systematically exploit the state of fear and disorientation that accompanies moments of great shock and crisis."

Substitute 'multinational corporations' with 'u.s. government' and this is exactly what Obama is doing.