Zone1 RE "Joseph knew [Mary] not UNTIL she [gave birth to Jesus]" (doesn't mean she lost her virginity)

notmyfault2020

Platinum Member
Oct 7, 2022
6,542
3,200
893
This is from Matthew Chapter One. The footnote that appears in my Douay Rheims Bible is highlighted here in green.


[21] And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins. [22] Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: [23] Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. [24] And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. [25] And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (written in old-style language)

I believe this commentary was written by St Jerome, who translated the Bible from the original languages into Latin; then later the Latin was translated WITHOUT interpretations added into English (just as St Jerome did)



[25] "Till she brought forth her firstborn son": From these words Helvidius and other heretics most impiously inferred that the blessed Virgin Mary had other children besides Christ; but St. Jerome shews, by divers examples, that this expression of the Evangelist was a manner of speaking usual among the Hebrews, to denote by the word until, only what is done, without any regard to the future. Thus it is said, Genesis 8. 6 and 7, that Noe sent forth a raven, which went forth, and did not return till the waters were dried up on the earth. That is, did not return any more. Also Isaias 46. 4, God says: I am till you grow old. Who dare infer that God should then cease to be: Also in the first book of Machabees 5. 54, And they went up to mount Sion with joy and gladness, and offered holocausts, because not one of them was slain till they had returned in peace. That is, not one was slain before or after they had returned. God saith to his divine Son: Sit on my right hand till I make thy enemies thy footstool. Shall he sit no longer after his enemies are subdued? Yea and for all eternity. St. Jerome also proves by Scripture examples, that an only begotten son, was also called firstborn, or first begotten: because according to the law, the firstborn males were to be consecrated to God; Sanctify unto me, saith the Lord, every firstborn that openeth the womb among the children of Israel, etc. Ex. 13. 2.
 
Last edited:
This is from Matthew Chapter One. The footnote that appears in my Douay Rheims Bible is highlighted here in green.


[21] And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins. [22] Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: [23] Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. [24] And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. [25] And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (written in old-style language)

I believe this commentary was written by St Jerome, who translated the Bible from the original languages into Latin; then later the Latin was translated WITHOUT interpretations added into English (just as St Jerome did)



[25] "Till she brought forth her firstborn son": From these words Helvidius and other heretics most impiously inferred that the blessed Virgin Mary had other children besides Christ; but St. Jerome shews, by divers examples, that this expression of the Evangelist was a manner of speaking usual among the Hebrews, to denote by the word until, only what is done, without any regard to the future. Thus it is said, Genesis 8. 6 and 7, that Noe sent forth a raven, which went forth, and did not return till the waters were dried up on the earth. That is, did not return any more. Also Isaias 46. 4, God says: I am till you grow old. Who dare infer that God should then cease to be: Also in the first book of Machabees 5. 54, And they went up to mount Sion with joy and gladness, and offered holocausts, because not one of them was slain till they had returned in peace. That is, not one was slain before or after they had returned. God saith to his divine Son: Sit on my right hand till I make thy enemies thy footstool. Shall he sit no longer after his enemies are subdued? Yea and for all eternity. St. Jerome also proves by Scripture examples, that an only begotten son, was also called firstborn, or first begotten: because according to the law, the firstborn males were to be consecrated to God; Sanctify unto me, saith the Lord, every firstborn that openeth the womb among the children of Israel, etc. Ex. 13. 2.

This all reads like Harry Potter fans arguing about the true master of the Elder Wand.
 
The Gospels make reference to Jesus having brothers. Mark 6:3 (NRSV) lists them as James, Joses, Simon, and Judah.

The Apostles and Brothers of Jesus - dimacs

Rutgers University
http://home.dimacs.rutgers.edu › ~asills › Apostles...
Some Christians make a strong case on the bibles using the words, 'brothers' and 'sisters' in a rhetorical sense. This is a thread that has posed a question well worth exploring further!

And of course the word 'knew' as been used in the rhetorical sense of meaning having 'sexual intercourse' with her. Nobody need question that at least.
 
In former times the Normies used to argue about how many fairies could stand on a pin .

This is the same .

I much prefer the hidden narrative that Gabriel was a Visitor and one of the Anunnaki . Though whether he popped back for repeats I will have to go back to the Book of Enoch to investigate .
 
If the Catholic Church is what it claims to be: the Church founded by Christ, then we can believe it teaching us that Mary was always a virgin.

Jesus was certainly always a virgin. Why wouldn't His mother be?
 
If the Catholic Church is what it claims to be: the Church founded by Christ, then we can believe it teaching us that Mary was always a virgin.

Jesus was certainly always a virgin. Why wouldn't His mother be?
Because there is no Sctipture evidence Mary remained a virgin and there is Scripture evidence Mary had other children. Scripture is the final authority.
 
Because there is no Sctipture evidence Mary remained a virgin and there is Scripture evidence Mary had other children. Scripture is the final authority.
To me the question of Mary’s virginity after Jesus was born is irrelevant. God doesn’t strike me as opposed to married people having sex.

Genesis 9:7

New King James Version

And as for you, be fruitful and multiply; Bring forth abundantly in the earth And multiply in it.”
 
Because there is no Sctipture evidence Mary remained a virgin and there is Scripture evidence Mary had other children. Scripture is the final authority.
No, scripture is not the final authority. The Church that put togehter the Bible is.

And you cannot find in Scripture any passage that SAYS it is the final authority. I know. I have read the entire Bible cover to cover.

But the Bible does say that Mary remained a virgin. When the angel told her she would have a child (this was before she was married), she said "How can this be, since I know not man?"

She was betrothed to Joseph so why would she say that to the angel? If she had been planning on having a conventional marriage, she would not have asked that Q of the angel.

She was planning on remaining a virgin all her life. She was what was called a temple virgin.

God would not go against she vow to remain a virgin.
 
No, scripture is not the final authority. The Church that put togehter the Bible is.

And you cannot find in Scripture any passage that SAYS it is the final authority. I know. I have read the entire Bible cover to cover.

But the Bible does say that Mary remained a virgin. When the angel told her she would have a child (this was before she was married), she said "How can this be, since I know not man?"

She was betrothed to Joseph so why would she say that to the angel? If she had been planning on having a conventional marriage, she would not have asked that Q of the angel.

She was planning on remaining a virgin all her life. She was what was called a temple virgin.

God would not go against she vow to remain a virgin.
I don't understand how you get the idea that because she was virgin before she was married that somehow means she remained a virgin. You have no Scripture to back that up. She didn't make a vow.
 
No, scripture is not the final authority. The Church that put togehter the Bible is.

And you cannot find in Scripture any passage that SAYS it is the final authority. I know. I have read the entire Bible cover to cover.

But the Bible does say that Mary remained a virgin. When the angel told her she would have a child (this was before she was married), she said "How can this be, since I know not man?"

She was betrothed to Joseph so why would she say that to the angel? If she had been planning on having a conventional marriage, she would not have asked that Q of the angel.

She was planning on remaining a virgin all her life. She was what was called a temple virgin.

God would not go against she vow to remain a virgin.

Good Lord.
 
No, scripture is not the final authority. The Church that put togehter the Bible is.

And you cannot find in Scripture any passage that SAYS it is the final authority. I know. I have read the entire Bible cover to cover.

But the Bible does say that Mary remained a virgin. When the angel told her she would have a child (this was before she was married), she said "How can this be, since I know not man?"

She was betrothed to Joseph so why would she say that to the angel? If she had been planning on having a conventional marriage, she would not have asked that Q of the angel.

She was planning on remaining a virgin all her life. She was what was called a temple virgin.

God would not go against she vow to remain a virgin.
The prophecy was about your apostate church: "and he shall think to change times and laws"

Your very post here explains exactly why you can never come to a true understanding of God.
 
the 1st century events were of their own uniqueness the crucifiers do all they can to supersede - marry, joseph, jesus and marry magdalene lived their lives without the legalities in reference to marriage or the corrupt christian concept as being a sacrament - those heavenly four would never ascribe to ...

joseph and marry believed in free love for all never were "married" as the legal document and lived happily ever after.
 
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge

so says the crucifier, death serpent -

1678754413218.png


how the heavens will punish them.
 

Forum List

Back
Top