Questions Worth Asking and Answering

[Annie]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...els_dilemma_opedcolumnists_john_podhoretz.htm

TOO NICE TO WIN?
ISRAEL'S DILEMMA

By JOHN PODHORETZ

July 25, 2006 -- WHAT if liberal democracies have now evolved to a point where they can no longer wage war effectively because they have achieved a level of humanitarian concern for others that dwarfs any really cold-eyed pursuit of their own national interests?

What if the universalist idea of liberal democracy - the idea that all people are created equal - has sunk in so deeply that we no longer assign special value to the lives and interests of our own people as opposed to those in other countries?

What if this triumph of universalism is demonstrated by the Left's insistence that American and Israeli military actions marked by an extraordinary concern for preventing civilian casualties are in fact unacceptably brutal? And is also apparent in the Right's claim that a war against a country has nothing to do with the people but only with that country's leaders?

Can any war be won when this is the nature of the discussion in the countries fighting the war? Can any war be won when one of the combatants voluntarily limits itself in this manner?

Could World War II have been won by Britain and the United States if the two countries did not have it in them to firebomb Dresden and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Didn't the willingness of their leaders to inflict mass casualties on civilians indicate a cold-eyed singleness of purpose that helped break the will and the back of their enemies? Didn't that singleness of purpose extend down to the populations in those countries in those days, who would have and did support almost any action at any time that would lead to the deaths of Germans and Japanese?

What if the tactical mistake we made in Iraq was that we didn't kill enough Sunnis in the early going to intimidate them and make them so afraid of us they would go along with anything? Wasn't the survival of Sunni men between the ages of 15 and 35 the reason there was an insurgency and the basic cause of the sectarian violence now?

If you can't imagine George W. Bush issuing such an order, is there any American leader you could imagine doing so?

And if America can't do it, can Israel? Could Israel - even hardy, strong, universally conscripted Israel - possibly stomach the bloodshed that would accompany the total destruction of Hezbollah?

If Lebanon's 300-plus civilian casualties are already rocking the world, what if it would take 10,000 civilian casualties to finish off Hezbollah? Could Israel inflict that kind of damage on Lebanon - not because of world opinion, but because of its own modern sensibilities and its understanding of the value of every human life?

Where do these questions lead us?

What if Israel's caution about casualties among its own soldiers and Lebanese civilians has demonstrated to Hezbollah and Hamas that as long as they can duck and cover when the missiles fly and the bombs fall, they can survive and possibly even thrive?

What if Israel has every capability of achieving its aim, but cannot unleash itself against a foe more dangerous, more unscrupulous, more unprincipled and more barbaric than even the monstrous leaders of the Intifada it managed to quell after years of suicide attacks?

And as for the United States, what if we have every tool at our disposal to win a war - every weapons system we could want manned by the most superbly trained military in history - except the ability to match or exceed our antagonists in ruthlessness?

Is this the horrifying paradox of 21st century warfare? If Israel and the United States cannot be defeated militarily in any conventional sense, have our foes discovered a new way to win? Are they seeking victory through demoralization alone - by daring us to match them in barbarity and knowing we will fail?

Are we becoming unwitting participants in their victory and our defeat? Can it be that the moral greatness of our civilization - its astonishing focus on the value of the individual above all - is endangering the future of our civilization as well?

 

[Gunny]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...els_dilemma_opedcolumnists_john_podhoretz.htm

I don't see where "what if ..." comes from. I've thought this to be reality for quite awhile. We've gone soft, and the pseudo-intellectual, leftist ideology that distorts the difference between us and them and/or right or wrong, has completely blurred the line for us when it comes to what we believe in.

We can't even wage war without putting concern for noncombatant casualties ahead of winning. It's bullshit, and it's no way to win or even fight a war.

Does the left wail and squeal in righteous indignation about an enemy that hides out among civilians, and/or targets them to instill fear? No. Does the left point out on a daily basis the number of attacks against civilians perpetrated by these terrorists? No. They even soften up the name from murdering scumbag terrorists; which, is what they are, to "insurgent."

SOmetimes I think we're fighting the wrong enemy first.

 

[Annie]

I don't see where "what if ..." comes from. I've thought this to be reality for quite awhile. We've gone soft, and the pseudo-intellectual, leftist ideology that distorts the difference between us and them and/or right or wrong, has completely blurred the line for us when it comes to what we believe in.

We can't even wage war without putting concern for noncombatant casualties ahead of winning. It's bullshit, and it's no way to win or even fight a war.

Does the left wail and squeal in righteous indignation about an enemy that hides out among civilians, and/or targets them to instill fear? No. Does the left point out on a daily basis the number of attacks against civilians perpetrated by these terrorists? No. They even soften up the name from murdering scumbag terrorists; which, is what they are, to "insurgent."

SOmetimes I think we're fighting the wrong enemy first.

I hear you, but if no 'IF' then we should just call everyone home and start building mosques, fast.

 

[dilloduck]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...els_dilemma_opedcolumnists_john_podhoretz.htm

YES -the answer is yes however the premise of the article that states:

What if the universalist idea of liberal democracy - the idea that all people are created equal

is in error.

Liberal democracy views Americans and Israelis as so far SUPERIOR, UNFAIRLY SUPERIOR, that we must fight with both hands behind our backs.

 

[Gunny]

I hear you, but if no 'IF' then we should just call everyone home and start building mosques, fast.

The people that can think beyond intellectualizing need to take control of this Nation back. THAT's the "if," IMO.

Yes, our enemy is human. Yes, our enemy believes he is as right as we do. Yes, our enemy thinks God is on his side. Big deal. So did Hitler.

The simple difference between us and our enemy is we aren't trying to murder any and eveything that doesn't agree with us, and for those that do agree, imprison them within a totalitarian theocracy.

They attacked us. Screw them. I feel sorry for noncombatants caught up in the crossfire, but such are the wages of war, and concern for them should be secondary to victory now as it ever has been in any war that has been won.

 

[Bonnie]

We are already there, and it will be our undoing and the terrorists triumph.....they are counting on it!!

 

[Gunny]

We are already there, and it will be our undoing and the terrorists triumph.....they are counting on it!!

I refer you to my signature.

Most of us know who and what our enemy is ..... most Americans just don't want to face up to it, or don't care.

 

[dilloduck]

I refer you to my signature.

Most of us know who and what our enemy is ..... most Americans just don't want to face up to it, or don't care.

Too scared IMHO.

 

[Gunny]

Too scared IMHO.

I agree, and I don't know why. What power does the PC, NWO, wannabe-intellectual, anti-US crowd ACTUALLY hold that it is their rules we adhere to? They are destroying our National Will as surely as if they dropped a nuke on every major city in the US simultaneously.

 

[dilloduck]

I agree, and I don't know why. What power does the PC, NWO, wannabe-intellectual, anti-US crowd ACTUALLY hold that it is their rules we adhere to? They are destroying our National Will as surely as if they dropped a nuke on every major city in the US simultaneously.

I think they've have bought the world of PC fantasy hook line and sinker and all the mantras are now starting to fail them--If they pull thier head of a the hole they have been so comfortable in for so long, it's just to damn scary and worst of all they would have to admit that they may have been wrong.

 

[Bonnie]

I refer you to my signature.

Most of us know who and what our enemy is ..... most Americans just don't want to face up to it, or don't care.

I wonder??

 

[Gunny]

I think they've have bought the world of PC fantasy hook line and sinker and all the mantras are now starting to fail them--If they pull thier head of a the hole they have been so comfortable in for so long, it's just to damn scary and worst of all they would have to admit that they may have been wrong.

Again, I agree, but my question is how long do we let this farce continue before backlash sets in? In this "forinstance," I'm READY for some backlash!

 

[dilloduck]

Again, I agree, but my question is how long do we let this farce continue before backlash sets in? In this "forinstance," I'm READY for some backlash!

Here here--order me a double backlash!

 

[T-Bor]

Does the left wail and squeal in righteous indignation about an enemy that hides out among civilians, and/or targets them to instill fear? No. Does the left point out on a daily basis the number of attacks against civilians perpetrated by these terrorists? "

SOmetimes I think we're fighting the wrong enemy first.

Does the right ? My god gunny all you do is whine about the left. Its all the lefts fault, everything that has ever been wrong with this country is the lefts fault. Give it a break. What color is the sky in your world anyway ?

 

[Gunny]

Does the right ? My god gunny all you do is whine about the left. Its all the lefts fault, everything that has ever been wrong with this country is the lefts fault. Give it a break. What color is the sky in your world anyway ?

Pointing out the lunacy of the extreme left is hardly whining. And since you wish to get into critiquing posts and posters instead of responding to them, are you EVER going to post a legitimate argument concerning anything? Or just continue to prove that you are a troll with absolutely nothing to add to a discussion?

 

[Mr.Conley]

Good point, is anything ever not the left's fault?

 

[CSM]

Good point, is anything ever not the left's fault?

No.

 

[Gunny]

Good point, is anything ever not the left's fault?

Actually, it's a dumb question since the answer is obviously no when it comes to destroying the morals and laws that have served us well for over 200 years. Conservatives want to preserve them, the left wants to exchange them for morals and/or laws of lesser value on a continuing basis until there are none left.

Fairly simple math.

 

[Rico]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...els_dilemma_opedcolumnists_john_podhoretz.htm

The left is only a small portion of the country. They control all the media, which, of course, magnifies their influence. Here in the middle of the country we know who the enemy is and realize what must be done. Unfortunately we have a lack of leadership nationally on this problem. Bush is like his pappy; a bit too wishy washy and concerned about world opinion.

"Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Train even your weaklings to be warriors." Joel 3:10

 

[Gunny]

The left is only a small portion of the country. They control all the media, which, of course, magnifies their influence. Here in the middle of the country we know who the enemy is and realize what must be done. Unfortunately we have a lack of leadership nationally on this problem. Bush is like his pappy; a bit too wishy washy and concerned about world opinion.

"Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Train even your weaklings to be warriors." Joel 3:10

I disagree with your last sentence. Bush is too concerned, needlessly, with what the LEFT thinks. We didn't put a majority of conservatives in Congress, and vote for a Republican President for THAT. They're blowing their mandate out their asses because they aren't doing what we voted them in to do.