Qaeda suspects arrested; Terrorists getting more cowardly

[jimnyc]

Authorities in Turkey have already nabbed suspects in the most recent terror bombings.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm..._on_re_mi_ea/turkey_bombings&cid=540&ncid=716

I guess Operation Iron Hammer is making it harder for the terrorists to defend against our military, so they are increasing their attacks against innocent civilians. These are cowardly acts of desperation.

There has been ONE coalition death reported since my last post concerning the decline in deaths since the onset of the offensive. In fact, here's a quote from the article: "The U.S. commander in the capital, Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, said Thursday that the 12-day crackdown had contributed to a 70 percent decrease in rebel activity."

Iraq Oil Ministry, Hotels Hit by Rockets

BAGHDAD, Iraq - More than a dozen rockets fired from donkey carts slammed into Iraq's Oil Ministry and two downtown hotels on Friday morning — brazen coordinated strikes at some of Baghdad's most heavily protected civilian sites that defied a U.S. crackdown.

Two other rocket launchers mounted on donkey carts were found within hours — one 30 yards from the Italian Embassy and another near the Academy of Fine Arts, both in the Waziriya neighborhood north of downtown.

Iraqi police and U.S. troops were securing those weapons, which apparently had not been fired, and U.S. soldiers searched donkey carts on nearby streets.

One man was carried away bleeding from the Palestine Hotel, where many foreign journalists and U.S. workers are staying. No other casualties were reported at the Palestine or the Sheraton Hotel across the street.

"This is the work of terrorists," said Loay Yunis Khalil, manager of the Palestine Hotel.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

 

[SLClemens]

I sort of suspect the Turkey bombings were planned a little bit before Operation Eisenhammer. If there's any reason for why they happened now it would be Bush's visit to London.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by SLClemens
I sort of suspect the Turkey bombings were planned a little bit before Operation Eisenhammer. If there's any reason for why they happened now it would be Bush's visit to London.

Referring to the military operations as 'nazi like' doesn't lend any credibility to your arguments, nor does it refute anything I've stated. I'll gather you agree with me. Thank you.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I guess Operation Iron Hammer is making it harder for the terrorists to defend against our military, so they are increasing their attacks against innocent civilians. These are cowardly acts of desperation.

It's is a gesture, jim. They are telling the Iraqis that they are still there, still fighting the occupier while the most powerful military on earth is hammering empty ground with expensive ordinance and and tossing law abiding Iraqis houses. I have no data on what the Iraqis as a people think is going on and it is their opinion that is needed to shut down the resistance.

jimnyc
"the 12-day crackdown had contributed to a 70 percent decrease in rebel activity."

Over the 12 day period. You may feel we are iradicating the resistance, though the point of the rocket attack was to assure everyone that the resistance is still organized and strong. We'll find out in the next few months which message is correct.
Historicaly, the Iraqis will eventually turn against us if we can't quell the violence.
Attacking the hotels that cater to foriegners and the Oil ministry is another form of propaganda the resistance is trying to spread. It is playing off a growing sentiment in Iraq, which is the foriegners have come to steal the oil.

 

[jimnyc]

It's is a gesture, jim. They are telling the Iraqis that they are still there

How, by killing them? They have a rather odd way of speaking to their fellow citizens!

still fighting the occupier while the most powerful military on earth is hammering empty ground with expensive ordinance and and tossing law abiding Iraqis houses.

Where is the empty ground they are bombing? Every story I read talks about warehouses, terrorist camps & terrorist hideout locations - have you read something about them bombing open fields that I missed?

I have no data on what the Iraqis as a people think is going on and it is their opinion that is needed to shut down the resistance.

I know they aren't hoping for more terrorist attacks against their citizens.

Over the 12 day period. You may feel we are iradicating the resistance, though the point of the rocket attack was to assure everyone that the resistance is still organized and strong.

Not sure who's post you read, but it wasn't mine! I never said I felt we were eradicating them. I stated they were preventing them from properly defending themselves, so the terrorists were resorting to going after civilian population instead. In other words, they can no longer effectively go after our troops. And if they are "strong", why are they going after civilians instead of the military? Shoot, if they were strong they wouldn't need to perform suicide bombings! They use alternative methods to make up for their weakness.

We'll find out in the next few months which message is correct.

Yes, we will. As it stands right now though, they've been silent compared to their activity in the months prior to our military offensive. I'll concede that things can change, but right now it has changed in our favor.

Historicaly, the Iraqis will eventually turn against us if we can't quell the violence.

This is our first time occupying their country and helping them fight terrorism, there isn't much history of that. The Iraqi people just may surprise you and show that they too enjoy their freedom.

Attacking the hotels that cater to foriegners and the Oil ministry is another form of propaganda the resistance is trying to spread. It is playing off a growing sentiment in Iraq, which is the foriegners have come to steal the oil.

Agreed, and in theory it's a good plan. But, it's not very hard for the Iraqi's to figure out the truth. They have newspapers now, satellites, a government... Don't you think the citizens would want to hear it from them that the USA is stealing oil? I know if I was an Iraqi citizen I would take the word of the people over terrorists.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by jimnyc

This is our first time occupying their country and helping them fight terrorism, there isn't much history of that. The Iraqi people just may surprise you and show that they too enjoy their freedom.

Helping them fight terrorism against whom for the first time? This is teh first time in a while their country's seen this type of terrorism. There was some anti-Saddam terrorism and some Kurdish terrorism before this. I guess you're right, actually, in this being the first time they've had to face this sort and this level of terrorism, which was not known for at least quite a while before we arrived. Hopefully they'll see less state terrorism under us than what we replaced.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Where is the empty ground they are bombing? Every story I read talks about warehouses, terrorist camps & terrorist hideout locations - have you read something about them bombing open fields that I missed?

The oposition is not defending them, nor do they own them. For purposes of acheiving our goals the buildings and fields are empty of resistance, so for us they are empty ground.

I know they aren't hoping for more terrorist attacks against their citizens.

Nope, I think most of them hope the US can stop the resistance, but if we do not demonstrate that capability, they will loose faith in our program.

Not sure who's post you read, but it wasn't mine! I never said I felt we were eradicating them.

Sorry bud, I read your riff and went back and re-read your prior post, thanks for straightening that out for me, I took your quote from Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey as an endorsement of the beleif this is attriting the resistance at a higher rate than they can recruit.

I stated they were preventing them from properly defending themselves, so the terrorists were resorting to going after civilian population instead. In other words, they can no longer effectively go after our troops. And if they are "strong", why are they going after civilians instead of the military? Shoot, if they were strong they wouldn't need to perform suicide bombings! They use alternative methods to make up for their weakness.

They aren't "strong" when compared to the US army, though they do apparently have the ability to launch missile barrages at their discretion into the heart of American control in Baghdad. This portrays a strength which resonates with Iraqis, it certainly is not taken by them as a sign of desperation. This is a PR war for the hearts and minds of Iraq. We portray the resistance as a dying breed, a well heeled pack of dead enders. The resistance portrays itself as valiently resisting the occupation, which includes killing collaborators.

I'll concede that things can change, but right now it has changed in our favor.

I wont argue with you Jim, cause I'm pretty pleased about that too, I just wonder how long Iron hammer is set to run and what happens the day we go back to occupation as usual.

This is our first time occupying their country and helping them fight terrorism, there isn't much history of that. The Iraqi people just may surprise you and show that they too enjoy their freedom.

True, we've never occupied Iraq before, but our boon confidants, the British have (1920s'). They created Iraq because it fit their agenda for the middle east, we just inherited that agenda. A little known fact is that the first use of WMDs' inside Iraq was a british operation to quell the unrully bediouns. (They gassed them and straffed them from the air.). As for the Iraqis surprising me, I'm sure they will. I'm equally confident they will surprise you.

They have newspapers now, satellites, a government... Don't you think the citizens would want to hear it from them that the USA is stealing oil?

They do hear it, from Al-Jezira as well as other sources. The people who will profit from the oil are the oil companies, the Iraqis will see much less of the money than they did when you had to buy the oil from the Iraqi government. This is a big deal in the arab world, as you might imagine, so it is reported on the news and in the papers. Here it's ignored or sniffed at as the "Blood for Oil Hoax" but it is, from the point of view of the Iraqis, true that we are giving our corporations free range over thier only natural rescource and allowing them to keep the lions share of the profits.

 

[jimnyc]

You actually didn't sound like you hoped the US fails in that post.

I agree with almost everything you said. It's nice to see optimism and hope in your posts, even if you think it might not come to fruition.

I think things are slowly starting to move in the right direction. Time will tell if the Iraqi's adapt. They have freedom in their sights, whether they choose to take it or not is another question.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by jimnyc
You actually didn't sound like you hoped the US fails in that post.

I agree with almost everything you said. It's nice to see optimism and hope in your posts, even if you think it might not come to fruition.

I think things are slowly starting to move in the right direction. Time will tell if the Iraqi's adapt. They have freedom in their sights, whether they choose to take it or not is another question.

When, oh when, will imperialists learn that nations do not like to live under martial law of an occupying army? So far seven months have seen more and more dislike for the occupation. What makes you think this will change?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by SLClemens
When, oh when, will imperialists learn that nations do not like to live under martial law of an occupying army? So far seven months have seen more and more dislike for the occupation. What makes you think this will change?

What would you prefer if you were in their shoes: Occupation while terrorists are removed and a government structure built and an endless amount of freedoms you never had before on the horizon OR Have a leader who limits your freedom, orders the death of his citizens and having terrorists have free reign over the country?

This is just common sense. They might not like temporary occupation, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by jimnyc
What would you prefer if you were in their shoes: Occupation while terrorists are removed and a government structure built and an endless amount of freedoms you never had before on the horizon OR Have a leader who limits your freedom, orders the death of his citizens and having terrorists have free reign over the country?

This is just common sense. They might not like temporary occupation, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

More like occupation while terrorists (and guerrillas) are created and brought in.

How well have past US occupations worked? Panama worked to a point - you'd think we could have learnt something about the problems of looting following an invasion, however. Apart from that I can't think of many post-WWII.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by SLClemens
More like occupation while terrorists (and guerrillas) are created and brought in.

How well have past US occupations worked? Panama worked to a point - you'd think we could have learnt something about the problems of looting following an invasion, however. Apart from that I can't think of many post-WWII.

Yes, guerillas and terrorists created by the terrorists. Any normal thinking citizen will realize who is fighting in their best interest.

Past occupations have nothing to do with Iraq. How many were done so to eradicate terrorism and done so to change the oppressed people into free people?

 

[Sevendogs]

This would not help much and it cannot, because it is like trying to kill a fly with hammer on another person's forehead... Real weapons of mass destrucion are schools where youngsters are indoctrinated to become suicide bombers. There are many of them in Pakistan, Indonesia and other countries, but we are tied up well in Iraq and there is no more money for war where real terrorism is sprouting.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by Sevendogs
This would not help much and it cannot, because it is like trying to kill a fly with hammer on another person's forehead... Real weapons of mass destrucion are schools where youngsters are indoctrinated to become suicide bombers. There are many of them in Pakistan, Indonesia and other countries, but we are tied up well in Iraq and there is no more money for war where real terrorism is sprouting.

To use a bad pun this really hits the nail on the head. Iraq was no terrorist threat to us, no matter how dispicable Saddam was. Now we have to invent excuses for why our soldiers are dying and killing in vain.

 

[jimnyc]

How funny!

You 2 agree that WMD are where terrorists train and learn for future activity. Yet Iraq and their training grounds are somehow different? At least the other countries that are breeding terrorists aren't systematically maiming and killing their citizens while the training continues.

 

[Sevendogs]

Iron Hammer is designed to show at home that something is being done in Iraq. They hit empty buildings and occasionally kill Iraquis who did not fight. Iraq remains a can of worms and a money pit. Bush missed his goal in the war against terror. Iraquis like our dollars. All their police force and government would run away as soon as we live them alone. They must buy their freedom with their own blood. This is the price of freedom.

 

[jimnyc]