Popular misrepresentations of the idea of heaven

[Billy_Kinetta]

I believe that most popular understandings of Heaven or hell are derived from non-biblical sources, primarily Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. The ideas in these works have become ingrained in our popular culture. This is true even in the Church.
The City of God described toward the end of the book of the Revelation is a cube 1500 miles on a side. It is an ark.

"We are the Borg."

The fact is, no one knows. Nor will we, until it happens.

 

[fncceo]

Pretty sure this is a more accurate description.

 

[shimon]

Pretty sure this is a more accurate description.

Depends on whether you like the beer or other things...Besides it could start off like heaven and you could find out you are in hell in a number of ways you never could have thought of..

 

[bluzman61]

Pretty sure this is a more accurate description.

YES!

 

[shimon]

In popular culture, "heaven" is erroneously described as a cloudy place full of angels. I'm not sure where such childish notions or ideas of it originated, and may have little specifically to do with Christianity to begin with, but I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on heaven in the context of the Bible or theology, thanks.

(The same in regards to popular depictions of "Satan", hell or the "Devil" as a red person with a pitchfork; I'm curious where those actually originated; as far as the Bible, I don't recall any physical description of Satan or the Devil, beyond the serpent in Eden, or the fallen angel Lucifer, who was supposedly very comely, rather than hidieous).

The kingdom of heaven is within you according Luke 17:21 if I recalled the proper verse offhand. I've noticed that same verse has been left out in some Bibles. In the Bible several levels of heaven are mentioned.

Per the serpent the origins of the work is to look or gaze intently. < A little more to it than that but that is the gest of it.

The comical version of satan red with little pointed horns a figment of someones imagination. I can say I saw a very nasty looking appearance of a spirit in a friend's face once for a brief moment who denied God. My husband wrote a brief story about the event. It was shortly after that the friend sat at our table with the Bible and us and pour his heart out in tears as he described how his faith had been shaken years earlier. I do not believe for one moment that our dear friend's soul was not saved even though he was given over here in this world. Jesus told us to keep that which is good as that is what is kept. He also said only God was good so that should give everyone an inclination to what part is kept.

The kingdom of God is in the midst of you. Many believers insist that when Christ told this audience of Pharisees that the kingdom was in their midst, the correct translation ought to be that the kingdom was within them, as some translations have led them to believe. That is, that the kingdom was in their hearts. To be fair to this interpretation, the Greek translates to the word within as well. But this would imply that the kingdom was available to the degenerate and unfaithful, as the crowd Jesus was addressing included Pharisees, a group of people he called a brood of vipers and children of the devil and who lacked the righteousness to enter the kingdom (Mt 5:20).

Literal translations such as the ESV and the NRSV render the Greek in context. The kingdom is in the midst of you (ESV) or among you (NRSV). The character of his audience aside, Jesus was addressing a crowd. The kingdom was in the midst of a group of people, or among it. It was not in the midst of an individual, which itself would be a nonsensical phrase, unless, as some translations may render it, it was within the individual’s grasp. The kingdom of God is in the midst of you, plural, not you, singular. The Greek you in this verse – ὑμῶν – is the genitive second-person plural. The kingdom was among the audience that Jesus was addressing.

I agree that the depictions of Satan are comical. So is the very idea of eternal torment, as if God punishes for the sake of punishing.

Because the "world to come" can be a paradise or a hell hole, the proper expression is to say heaven is "in you" as in "capabilities to progress and create that paradise". It's like we recently told
N. Korea and Iran, it's in them to make those right choices to choose progress that comes in peaceful approaches rather then destructive waring postures.
It's in them to chose tech and biz and trade over military and proxy wars.
It's in them to chose to be a Cyrus rather then a Belshazadar. Financial windfalls rather then financial collapse and unrest. Choose life and paradise rather then death and destruction liken to the description of Gehinnom (trash heap outside the kingdom walls)

Once one gets off the path which is narrow one can end up in a very unfavourable place... Ironically all the garbage and refuse being burned in the valley of Gehinnom is an apt description of how we could have hell on earth.. Too many people and countries and religious leaders as well as secular leaders wish to keep the status quo which keeps us from attaining a more balanced approach that will bring us to a more perfected earth or future heaven like state... Either it is from shear laziness or control issues or an assorted numbers of excuses but one thing is for sure and that is like a tree sluffs off a dead or dying branch or pushes the toxins into one area so that the whole tree stays healthy and disease free we must also decide whether to move forward and wall ourselves off from our own gehinnoms otherwise the tree of life will dictate for us who attains heaven and who doesn’t in this life....

 

[hobelim]

otherwise the tree of life will dictate for us who attains heaven and who doesn’t in this life....

The firmament, (basis), of heaven is the law which stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Unless you conform to the instruction given in the law, in the way that was revealed by Jesus, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


No matter how far up hashevs ass you bury your nose.

 

[shimon]

otherwise the tree of life will dictate for us who attains heaven and who doesn’t in this life....

The firmament, (basis), of heaven is the law which stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Unless you conform to the instruction given in the law, in the way that was revealed by Jesus, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


No matter how far up hashevs ass you bury your nose.

Oh lookie here What “ Hobel” did you come out of Hobe ...Oh yes the one where you whose whole head is buried so deep up the Roman creation Jesus the double assed lord since he was riding a donkey( ass) coming in while sitting on it..So that makes two of you three if you include the donkey....But I digress and I apologies to any here that I offended by stooping as low as Hobe does... We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit heaven forbid which is too bad because if stooping close to the ground is always Hobe’s way of communicating then he can’t see above himself to see the law because he is spending too much time looking at the ground which is right in front of his face...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Well, let's see...
No hunger, but good food
No thirst, but good water
No scorching sun
No viruses
No disease
No death
No night
No marriage
Rivers as bright as crystal
Coronations and treasures
Absence of pain
No grief
No Temple


Gold streets
Mansions
Joy
Gates that never close
Jeweled walls
Joy
Music
An overwhelming sense of being loved
Dancing
Tables, chairs
Joy
Tree of life
Did I mention joy?

It has a city that is approximately 15,000 feet in length, width, and height.
That city is going to descend to earth. And will remain here.
Both God and Jesus will inhabit the city. God, Jesus and those saved by the blood of Christ, together as family.

I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”…

There ya go...

 

[Questioner]

I believe that most popular understandings of Heaven or hell are derived from non-biblical sources, primarily Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. The ideas in these works have become ingrained in our popular culture. This is true even in the Church.
The City of God described toward the end of the book of the Revelation is a cube 1500 miles on a side. It is an ark.

For what it's worth, in Revelation it mentions a "new Heaven" and "new Earth", rather than people "going to heaven".

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on the significance of this? Is the New Earth a paradise for humans, and New Heaven where God and his angels reside, possibly?

 

[RodISHI]

I believe that most popular understandings of Heaven or hell are derived from non-biblical sources, primarily Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. The ideas in these works have become ingrained in our popular culture. This is true even in the Church.
The City of God described toward the end of the book of the Revelation is a cube 1500 miles on a side. It is an ark.

For what it's worth, in Revelation it mentions a "new Heaven" and "new Earth", rather than people "going to heaven".

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on the significance of this? Is the New Earth a paradise for humans, and New Heaven where God and his angels reside, possibly?

What do you think it represents when it says New Earth?

If you turn that into earth being the person with a personal relationship with the Spirit of God what do you have? The Bible describes the hosts of heaven and earth, the lands, districts, chambers (cells), islands, seas, waterways, territories, etc. where these hosts reside, powers and principalities be they good ones or not so good ones.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In popular culture, "heaven" is erroneously described as a cloudy place full of angels. I'm not sure where such childish notions or ideas of it originated, and may have little specifically to do with Christianity to begin with, but I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on heaven in the context of the Bible or theology, thanks.

(The same in regards to popular depictions of "Satan", hell or the "Devil" as a red person with a pitchfork; I'm curious where those actually originated; as far as the Bible, I don't recall any physical description of Satan or the Devil, beyond the serpent in Eden, or the fallen angel Lucifer, who was supposedly very comely, rather than hidieous).

Only 144000 people go to Heaven anyway and it is a spirit place. As for Hell, that is Earth as God gave Lucifer dominion over earth till Jesus Returns to prove a point. Everyone else will live on a restored Earth under Jesus and God's dominion after the final battle.

 

[norwegen]

In popular culture, "heaven" is erroneously described as a cloudy place full of angels. I'm not sure where such childish notions or ideas of it originated, and may have little specifically to do with Christianity to begin with, but I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on heaven in the context of the Bible or theology, thanks.

(The same in regards to popular depictions of "Satan", hell or the "Devil" as a red person with a pitchfork; I'm curious where those actually originated; as far as the Bible, I don't recall any physical description of Satan or the Devil, beyond the serpent in Eden, or the fallen angel Lucifer, who was supposedly very comely, rather than hidieous).

Only 144000 people go to Heaven anyway and it is a spirit place. As for Hell, that is Earth as God gave Lucifer dominion over earth till Jesus Returns to prove a point. Everyone else will live on a restored Earth under Jesus and God's dominion after the final battle.

They're not the only ones; only the first ones; only the first generation of the resurrection. The 144,000 were the first fruits of the twelve tribes redeemed to God (Rv 14:4). Paul called Epaenetus a first fruit because he was the first in Asia to convert (Rm 16:5). Likewise, James refers to his brethren abroad as first fruits (Js 1:18).

Heaven is eternal.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

In popular culture, "heaven" is erroneously described as a cloudy place full of angels. I'm not sure where such childish notions or ideas of it originated, and may have little specifically to do with Christianity to begin with, but I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on heaven in the context of the Bible or theology, thanks.

(The same in regards to popular depictions of "Satan", hell or the "Devil" as a red person with a pitchfork; I'm curious where those actually originated; as far as the Bible, I don't recall any physical description of Satan or the Devil, beyond the serpent in Eden, or the fallen angel Lucifer, who was supposedly very comely, rather than hidieous).

The Bible speaks of 3 heavens.
1. The sky
2. Space
3. The third heaven where God dwells

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Everyone else will live on a restored Earth under Jesus and God's dominion after the final battle.

ALL will. No man goes to heaven.

In the end, even God the Father makes His home on the New Earth (after the earth becomes a molten Lake of Fire)

 

[Questioner]

Only extremely stupid or worthless people who don't read, or barely read at even 6th grade level, no matter their religious or philosophical affilation, would ever thought that silly, childish cartoonish images of a cloudy place with angels was "heaven", or that a red guy with a pitchfork was "satan" or the devil to begin with, whether in the context of anything akin to serious theology, contemporary philosophy of religion, or any other subject matter of a more intellectual and aesthetic variety.

Sadly, what many people were told, or taught to as naïve, and impressionable little children, in a way or vein likely have more in common with pre-literate pagan mythology than anything within the monotheistic realm or the philosophy and intellectual thought surrounding it as a subject of higher-level academic, theological, or philosophical cause, was taught to them... completely wrong... perhaps at worst, they were even lied to outright, as opposed to simply ill informed or misinformed...

 

[hobelim]

We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit

Of the two spirits in man.

This is for the man who would bring others to the inner vision, so that he may understand and teach to all the children of light the real nature of men, touching the different varieties of their temperaments with the distinguishing traits thereof, touching their actions throughout their generations, and touching the reason why they are now visited with afflictions and now enjoy periods of well-being.

All that is and ever was comes from a God of knowledge. Before things came into existence He determined the plan of them; and when they fill their appointed roles, it is in accordance with His glorious design that they discharge their functions. Nothing can be changed. In His hand lies the government of all things. God it is that sustains them in their needs.

Now, this God created man to rule the world, and appointed for him two spirits after whose direction he was to walk until the final Inquisition. They are the spirits of truth and perversity.

The origin of truth lies in the Fountain of Light, and that of perversity in the Wellspring of Darkness. All who practice righteousness are under the domination of the Prince of Lights, and walk in ways of light; whereas all who practice perversity are under the domination of the Angel of Darkness, however, even those who practice righteousness are made liable to error. All their sin and their iniquities, all their guilt and their deeds of transgression are the result of his domination; and this, by God's inscrutable design, will continue until the time appointed by Him. Moreover, all men's afflictions and all their moments of tribulation are due to this being's malevolent sway. All of the spirits that attend upon him are bent on causing the sons of light to stumble. Howbeit, the God of Israel and the Angel of His truth are always there to help the sons of light. It is God that created these spirits of light and darkness and made them the basis of every act, the [instigators] of every deed and the direction and the directors of every thought. The one He loves for to all eternity, and is ever pleased with its deeds; but any association with the other He abhors, and He hates all its ways to the end of time.

This is the way those spirits operate in the world. The enlightenment of man's heart, the making straight before him all the ways of righteousness and truth, the implanting in his heart of fear for the judgments of God, of a spirit of humility, of patience, of abundant compassion, of perpetual goodness, of insight, of perception, of that sense of the Divine Power that is based at once on an apprehension of God's works and a reliance on His plenteous mercy, of a spirit of knowledge informing every plan of action, of a zeal for righteous government, of a hallowed mind in a controlled nature, of abounding love for all who follow the truth, of self-respecting purity which abhors all the taint of filth, of a modesty of behaviour coupled with a general prudence and an ability to hide within oneself the secrets of what one knows - these are the things that come to men in this world through communion with the spirit of truth. And the guerdon of all that walk in its ways is health and abundant well-being, with long life and fruition of seed along with eternal blessings and everlasting joy in the life everlasting, and a crown of glory and a robe of honor, amid light perpetual.

But to the spirit of perversity belong greed, remissness in right doing, wickedness and falsehood, pride and presumption, ruthless deception and guile, abundant insolence, shortness of temper and profusion of folly, arrogant passion, abominable acts in a spirit of lewdness, filthy ways in the thralldom of unchastity, a blasphemous tongue, blindness of eyes, dullness of ears, stiffness of neck and hardness of heart, to the end that a man walks entirely in ways of darkness and of evil cunning. The guerdon of all who walk in such ways is multitude of afflictions at the hands of all the angels of destruction, everlasting perdition through the angry wrath of an avenging God, eternal horror and perpetual reproach, the disgrace of final annihilation in the Fire, darkness throughout the vicissitudes of life in every generation, doleful sorrow, bitter misfortune and darkling ruin-ending in extinction without remnant of survival.

It is to these things that all men are born, and it is to these that all the host of them are heirs throughout their generations. It is in these ways that men needs must walk and it is in these two divisions, according as a man inherits something of each, that all human acts are divided throughout all the ages of eternity. For God has appointed these two things to obtain in equal measure until the final age.

Between the two categories He has set an eternal enmity. Deeds of perversity are an abomination to Truth, while all the ways of Truth are an abomination to perversity; and there is a constant jealous rivalry between their two regimes, for they do not march in accord. Howbeit, God in His inscrutable wisdom has appointed a term for existence of perversity, and when the time of Inquisition comes, He will destroy it for ever. Then truth will emerge triumphant for the world, albeit now until the time of the final judgment it go sullying itself in the ways of wickedness owing to the domination of perversity. Then, too, God will purge all the acts of man in the crucible of His Truth, and refine for Himself all the fabric of man, destroying every spirit of perversity from within his flesh and cleansing him by the holy spirit from all the effects of wickedness. Like waters of purification He will sprinkle upon the spirit of truth, to cleanse him of all the abominations of falsehood and of all pollution through the spirit of filth; to the end that, being made upright, men may have understanding of transcendental knowledge and of the lore of the sons of heaven, and that, being made blameless in their ways, they may be endowed with inner vision. For them has God chosen to be the partners of His eternal covenant, and theirs shall be all mortal glory. Perversity shall be no more, and all works of deceit shall be put to shame.

Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth. For God has appointed them in equal measure until the final age, until 'He makes all things new'. He foreknows the effect of their works in every epoch of the world, and He has made men heirs to them that they might know good and evil. But [when the time] of Inquisition [comes], He will determine the fate of every living being in accordance with which of the [two spirits he has chosen to follow].

Manual of Discipline

 

[hobelim]

We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit

Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth. For God has appointed them in equal measure until the final age, until 'He makes all things new'



You are fully supporting a false messiah, a delusional egomaniac who thinks that he is the highest living being closest to God, yet he would mislead the entire nation of Israel to defile themselves yet again with a temple, the work of human hands, which proves that you understand neither the words or subjects about which you are so dogmatic.

The sanctuary of God is reserved for those who live within the boundaries and stand on the instructions in the divine commands whoever and wherever they are.

It is not about real estate, a temple, or anything made by human hands whether Jew or Gentile.

Schmuck.

Your mind has been defiled and contaminated by gobbling up the flesh of a multitude of unclean beasts and birds, barbecued on human dung.


This is not kosher.

 

[ding]

We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit

Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth. For God has appointed them in equal measure until the final age, until 'He makes all things new'



You are fully supporting a false messiah, a delusional egomaniac who thinks that he is the highest living being closest to God, yet he would mislead the entire nation of Israel to defile themselves yet again with a temple, the work of human hands, which proves that you understand neither the words or subjects about which you are so dogmatic.

The sanctuary of God is reserved for those who live within the boundaries and stand on the instructions in the divine commands whoever and wherever they are.

It is not about real estate, a temple, or anything made by human hands whether Jew or Gentile.

Schmuck.

Your mind has been defiled and contaminated by gobbling up the flesh of a multitude of unclean beasts and birds, barbecued on human dung.


This is not kosher.

You don't speak for God.

 

[hobelim]

We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit

Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth. For God has appointed them in equal measure until the final age, until 'He makes all things new'



You are fully supporting a false messiah, a delusional egomaniac who thinks that he is the highest living being closest to God, yet he would mislead the entire nation of Israel to defile themselves yet again with a temple, the work of human hands, which proves that you understand neither the words or subjects about which you are so dogmatic.

The sanctuary of God is reserved for those who live within the boundaries and stand on the instructions in the divine commands whoever and wherever they are.

It is not about real estate, a temple, or anything made by human hands whether Jew or Gentile.

Schmuck.

Your mind has been defiled and contaminated by gobbling up the flesh of a multitude of unclean beasts and birds, barbecued on human dung.


This is not kosher.

You don't speak for God.

I see and hear the words of the living God.

I speak the truth. Not for me and not for my God but for the benefit of all those who hunger for it.

anyone else like you who only feed on and are full of lies delusions and perversity can go fuck themselves.


Anyone who does not stand on the law and receive its blessings is under the law and will remain accursed, even if you mutilated your penis, never ate bacon, got down on your hands and kness 5 times a day, meditated on nothingness for decades, or munched on a god made man made matzo made by human hands every sunday for the rest of your pathetic life..

 

[ding]

We haven’t talked or conversed in sometime but unfortunately I see his manners or disposition haven’t changed a bit

Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth. For God has appointed them in equal measure until the final age, until 'He makes all things new'



You are fully supporting a false messiah, a delusional egomaniac who thinks that he is the highest living being closest to God, yet he would mislead the entire nation of Israel to defile themselves yet again with a temple, the work of human hands, which proves that you understand neither the words or subjects about which you are so dogmatic.

The sanctuary of God is reserved for those who live within the boundaries and stand on the instructions in the divine commands whoever and wherever they are.

It is not about real estate, a temple, or anything made by human hands whether Jew or Gentile.

Schmuck.

Your mind has been defiled and contaminated by gobbling up the flesh of a multitude of unclean beasts and birds, barbecued on human dung.


This is not kosher.

You don't speak for God.

I see and hear the words of the living God.

I speak the truth. Not for me and not for my God but for the benefit of all those who hunger for it.

anyone else like you who only feed on and are full of lies delusions and perversity can go fuck themselves.


Anyone who does not stand on the law and receive its blessings is under the law and will remain accursed, even if you mutilated your penis, never ate bacon, got down on your hands and kness 5 times a day, meditated on nothingness for decades, or munched on a god made man made matzo made by human hands every sunday for the rest of your pathetic life..

Horse shit. You don’t speak for God.