POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[Redfish]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

I think that is all Trump was trying to do, not scare the pants off people so that they refuse to go to work even though its relatively safe.

Cuomo had an upbeat presser today.
1. More people leaving the hospital each of the last 8-days.
2. Fewer people entering the hospitals the last few days. (a trend or a blip? we'll know next week)

Not to jinx us, but it looks from the last few days that the US curve is bending downward to a peak, like the EU appears to be doing. We'll know that in the next week or two.
View attachment 316848

I would say information like this is why the lockdowns must continue. We might, just might be starting to make some headway against this thing. Here is some other good information to report.

The percentage rate of increase in confirmed cases per day has been declining for a few days now:

March 24, 2020 - United States - 54,916
March 25, 2020 - United States - 68,489 - 24.7% increase
March 26, 2020 - United States - 85,594 - 24.97% increase
March 27, 2020 - United States - 104,256 - 21.8% increase
March 28, 2020 - United States - 123,776 - 18.7% increase
March 29, 2020 - United States - 142,224 - 14.9% increase

the trend seems to be going the right way. Trump's new date of 4/30 is looking possible.

And you're cool with that? What happened to "we must lift restrictions now!" ? Your lord and master changed his tune and you just dance merrily along?

He never said NOW, he said as soon as its safe. and yes, I am cool with it. We all hoped Easter was doable, but it appears that its not.

what did your lord and master Wolf Blitzer say about it? or was it your lordess and mistress Pelosi?

 

[Redfish]

So anyone can get a test in 15 minutes?

None of your bullshit is true...as usual redfish

What I posted is 100% true. Those tests are being administered at a drive thru testing facility in NOLA right now, as well as in many other places.

But not everyone should get tested, only those with symptoms that MAY be corona, most are not corona, most test results are negative. There is absolutely no logical or medical reason to test 330 million people.

There is if you want people back to work.

So if I test negative today, go to work tomorrow and get it, that's ok? Its a foolish waste to try to test every person in the country. Only those with symptoms need be tested.

 

[Seawytch]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

I think that is all Trump was trying to do, not scare the pants off people so that they refuse to go to work even though its relatively safe.

Cuomo had an upbeat presser today.
1. More people leaving the hospital each of the last 8-days.
2. Fewer people entering the hospitals the last few days. (a trend or a blip? we'll know next week)

Not to jinx us, but it looks from the last few days that the US curve is bending downward to a peak, like the EU appears to be doing. We'll know that in the next week or two.
View attachment 316848

I would say information like this is why the lockdowns must continue. We might, just might be starting to make some headway against this thing. Here is some other good information to report.

The percentage rate of increase in confirmed cases per day has been declining for a few days now:

March 24, 2020 - United States - 54,916
March 25, 2020 - United States - 68,489 - 24.7% increase
March 26, 2020 - United States - 85,594 - 24.97% increase
March 27, 2020 - United States - 104,256 - 21.8% increase
March 28, 2020 - United States - 123,776 - 18.7% increase
March 29, 2020 - United States - 142,224 - 14.9% increase

the trend seems to be going the right way. Trump's new date of 4/30 is looking possible.

And you're cool with that? What happened to "we must lift restrictions now!" ? Your lord and master changed his tune and you just dance merrily along?

He never said NOW, he said as soon as its safe. and yes, I am cool with it. We all hoped Easter was doable, but it appears that its not.

what did your lord and master Wolf Blitzer say about it? or was it your lordess and mistress Pelosi?

But just yesterday you said this virus was nothing compared to the seasonal flu and that we should just let old folks die so the economy can get going again. "Survival of the fittest" I believe you said. What changed your mind, drone?

 

[Seawytch]

So anyone can get a test in 15 minutes?

None of your bullshit is true...as usual redfish

What I posted is 100% true. Those tests are being administered at a drive thru testing facility in NOLA right now, as well as in many other places.

But not everyone should get tested, only those with symptoms that MAY be corona, most are not corona, most test results are negative. There is absolutely no logical or medical reason to test 330 million people.

There is if you want people back to work.

So if I test negative today, go to work tomorrow and get it, that's ok? Its a foolish waste to try to test every person in the country. Only those with symptoms need be tested.

Wrong again, as usual...

To End The Coronavirus Crisis We Need Widespread Testing, Experts Say

The Trump administration says not everyone needs a test, but experts say a strategy of broad testing and isolating the sick is our best way to solve this crisis.

www.npr.org

 

[colfax_m]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

Stats for the USA as of yesterday. From the CDC

142,000 cases of Corona virus
2500 deaths
4800 recoveries

mortality rate 1.75%


18,000,000 flu like illnesses
24.000 deaths
.13% mortality rate

So which one has the biggest impact on Americans and our medical system?

I’m not going to let you crawfish away from this.

You said the CDC’s worst projections indicated this would be less severe than the influenza. Your own link proves you wrong.

If COVID ends tomorrow, then it’ll clearly have a much smaller impact on Americans than influenza. But that’s unfortunately not going to happen.

that link gave old projections, that have been proven incorrect. The current stats that I posted earlier today give a much more accurate projection.

If you can do basic math, run the numbers for corona and flu out for two more months and see what you get------------then report back and admit that you were wrong.

BTW, the crawfish season is doing quite well in spite of all the restaurants being closed. Take out is booming

Projections yesterday were for 100-200k deaths, by Fauci and the president himself. That’s higher than any recent year’s tally of deaths from influenza by a factor of 2 to 10.

The statistics you just gave were not projections at all but current tallies. Go ahead and provide an updated projection if you think you’re still correct.

They both said that those were worst case projections that Fauci and Brix emphasized were not expected because of what we are doing to reduce the infection rate.

but you are free to panic if it makes you feel good.

Again, I don’t know how many times I’ve explained this, I’m not panicking.

But you’re not having an honest conversation. You said that even the worst case projections from the CDC showed not as many people will die from COVID as influenza. Time and time again you’ve either retreated from that position without admitting it.

Fauci and Birx have a point though. Fewer people will die because of restrictions that we’ve put in place. If fewer people die because of the drastic restrictions put in place, can you really say it wasn’t as severe? I’d say obviously not.

Of course its severe, the only point I have been trying to make is that we have severe medical issues every year. This one is scary because its new and drugs to fight it are just now being created. but it does not warrant the massive panic and political bullshit that is being created.

Come on, a corona relief bill that includes raises for congress members, funding for abortion, funding for the Kennedy center, that is a perfect example of what is wrong in DC.

The point everyone in the medical community with any sense (including Dr Fauci and Dr Birx) is that this is far more severe than your typical flu season. It’s far worse than even bad influenza like H1N1 from 2009.

Your attempt to minimize the severity of it (by attempting to falsely claim it’s not worse than the flu even by worst CDC projections) does not correlate to the available evidence.

 

[colfax_m]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

The average seasonal flu death rate is .1%

The average coronavirus death rate in the United States is 1.77%

The average coronavirus death rate in Italy is 11.03%

So the coronavirus death is anywhere from 17 times to 110 times as deadly as season flu.

More importantly ask yourself this: If this is nothing more serious then seasonal flu, why are cities building new make shift hospitals and make shift morgues? Why are hospitals at capacity with their ICU Beds? Why are there not enough Ventilators?

If you take time to think about and answer those questions, you will realize that stating this is nothing more serious than seasonal flu is total rubbish.

Are you really comparing Italy's demographic to the United States? This is why we can't count on MSM or people to remain calm, and not spread propaganda.

Were at the start of this crises, and only a fool would ignore what is going on in Italy.

Just to support your point about Italy, at yesterday's presser Dr. Birx said that the EU countries are on average about 9-years older than the US. That could explain, at least in part, why they are getting creamed by COVID-19. The graph below divides the US number to make the populations equal. It looks like the Italy curve is starting to bend down toward a peak, before starting downward.
View attachment 317084

I swear, every time I see you post you’re claiming to see the curve bending downwards.

Like, I think you’ve been saying this every day for two weeks.

 

[kyzr]

June 30, 2020 is more realistic

Just in time to grill our dogs for the 4th.....

~S~

We better be back to work by May 30th or there won't be much of an economy.

 

[kyzr]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

The average seasonal flu death rate is .1%

The average coronavirus death rate in the United States is 1.77%

The average coronavirus death rate in Italy is 11.03%

So the coronavirus death is anywhere from 17 times to 110 times as deadly as season flu.

More importantly ask yourself this: If this is nothing more serious then seasonal flu, why are cities building new make shift hospitals and make shift morgues? Why are hospitals at capacity with their ICU Beds? Why are there not enough Ventilators?

If you take time to think about and answer those questions, you will realize that stating this is nothing more serious than seasonal flu is total rubbish.

Are you really comparing Italy's demographic to the United States? This is why we can't count on MSM or people to remain calm, and not spread propaganda.

Were at the start of this crises, and only a fool would ignore what is going on in Italy.

Just to support your point about Italy, at yesterday's presser Dr. Birx said that the EU countries are on average about 9-years older than the US. That could explain, at least in part, why they are getting creamed by COVID-19. The graph below divides the US number to make the populations equal. It looks like the Italy curve is starting to bend down toward a peak, before starting downward.
View attachment 317084

I swear, every time I see you post you’re claiming to see the curve bending downwards.

Like, I think you’ve been saying this every day for two weeks.

Here is a different graph from Johns Hopkins showing "new cases", and it looks like a peak is forming. The last bar is 3/28 at 19.4k new cases. Yesterday 3/29 was 19.9k new cases, so unless we break the 20k line I'm hoping we're at or very near the peak.

 

[DrLove]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

All of the lock down measures that I've seen, have not been effective, as near as I can tell.
The clear example of this, would be Italy, which is again as near as I can tell, has the most strict and harsh lock down measure of any country.

Yet virus infections are still rising.

So.... given there doesn't seem to be much value in lock down, then we are left with a pointless policy that damages the entire economy. Corona, no matter which way you look at it, will be short term. Damage to the economy will be long term.

Now I do understand the logic, of trying to flatten the curve, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Again... not seeing that this is working.

Italy has flattened their curve. Ours is off the chain. Even with current measures, we're minimally a few weeks off. Reopen everything TOO soon and we risk everything INCLUDING the economy for the longterm.

Israeli Doctor in Italy Says New, Innovative Treatments ‘Flattening the Curve’

Carmi Sheffer describes connecting patients to ventilators via scuba gear, placing them on stomachs, in battle with unpredictable virus which ‘spreads like wildfire’ among elderly.

atlantajewishtimes.timesofisrael.com

when is too soon? that is the question.

Now is too soon. Revisit in 2-4 weeks.

Four weeks please - May 30th works for me but ONLY if new cases and their curve flattens. The only way we'll know that is more spot testing even in areas that haven't reported many cases because there hasn't been any testing. I suspect we have millions of young people who are asymtamatic and running around giving it to the more vulnerable.

It was nice to hear that Donnie is finally listening to his pandemic experts as opposed to Larry Kudlow and Sean Hannity. But pretty shitty of him to accuse our brave frontline heroes of slipping out the backdoor with face masks.

And of course he was on Fox News this morning whining about Nancy Pelosi. Such a sad little man.

 

[colfax_m]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

The average seasonal flu death rate is .1%

The average coronavirus death rate in the United States is 1.77%

The average coronavirus death rate in Italy is 11.03%

So the coronavirus death is anywhere from 17 times to 110 times as deadly as season flu.

More importantly ask yourself this: If this is nothing more serious then seasonal flu, why are cities building new make shift hospitals and make shift morgues? Why are hospitals at capacity with their ICU Beds? Why are there not enough Ventilators?

If you take time to think about and answer those questions, you will realize that stating this is nothing more serious than seasonal flu is total rubbish.

Are you really comparing Italy's demographic to the United States? This is why we can't count on MSM or people to remain calm, and not spread propaganda.

Were at the start of this crises, and only a fool would ignore what is going on in Italy.

Just to support your point about Italy, at yesterday's presser Dr. Birx said that the EU countries are on average about 9-years older than the US. That could explain, at least in part, why they are getting creamed by COVID-19. The graph below divides the US number to make the populations equal. It looks like the Italy curve is starting to bend down toward a peak, before starting downward.
View attachment 317084

I swear, every time I see you post you’re claiming to see the curve bending downwards.

Like, I think you’ve been saying this every day for two weeks.

Here is a different graph from Johns Hopkins showing "new cases", and it looks like a peak is forming. The last bar is 3/28 at 19.4k new cases. Yesterday 3/29 was 19.9k new cases, so unless we break the 20k line I'm hoping we're at or very near the peak.
View attachment 317096

Hope is great.

But you’ve said this repeatedly and repeatedly been incorrect. How about a little patience?

 

[DrLove]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

Mortality is going to be a lagging indicator. The death rate will peak after the peak of new cases. Given the incubation period and the fact that most people with bad COVID have a more of a progressive deterioration rather than immediate decompensation, our data is always going to be several weeks behind.

How many of the people whose deaths have been attributed to the virus would have died anyway because of their underlying medical problems? Maybe the virus hastened their demise, maybe it didn't. We have no way of knowing. The stats are therefore misleading and meaningless.

It’s an odd argument to make. Everyone is going to die sometime anyway so why attempt to prevent it?

More to the point, statistics is very good at determining things like standard mortality ratios to determine what the attributable mortality of a particular issue would be.

Simply acting like this is the seasonal flu or chicken pox is not going to end well.

So when an 85 year old with diabetes, heart disease, and COPD dies and tests positive for corona, what killed him? There is no way to know, that's my point.

As to the number killed, this is no where near as deadly as the annual flu and we never shut the country down for the flu.

If the 85 year old tests positive for COVID, develops fever, pulmonary infiltrates and respiratory distress requiring mechanical ventilation and codes due to hypoxemic cardiac arrest, then yes COVID killed them.

Just as a common cold kills thousands every year.

The common cold does not kill thousands each year, the flu does. It does not, however mean COVID 19 is the same as the flu.

Differences: COVID-19 and the Flu
Cause
COVID-19: Caused by one virus, the novel 2019 coronavirus, now called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2.

Flu: Caused by any of several different types and strains of influenza viruses.

Transmission
While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near.

Antiviral Medications
COVID-19: Antiviral medications and other therapies are currently being tested to see if they can address symptoms.

Flu: Antiviral medications can address symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.

Vaccine
COVID-19: No vaccine is available at this time, though it is in progress.

Flu: A vaccine is available and effective to prevent some of the most dangerous types or to reduce the severity of the flu.

COVID-19 vs. the Flu

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Not one person has said that flu and covid 19 are "the same". What has been pointed out many times, that you refuse to acknowledge, is that the flu kills more people every year than this virus ever will.

we will have a covid vaccine for next season, we have flu vaccines that work very well but we still have many flu deaths, maybe because of the fake news about vaccines and autism and the allegations that the govt is "putting something in the vaccines". both are untrue and based on ignorance and political bullshit.

The flu does not hit all of the populace at once as this virus is doing. The flu does not terrify ER doctors and nurses as this virus does. Hospitals are not overwhelmed with patients. Make shift morgues are not set up outside hospitals in a normal flu season.

Stay home, flatten the curve.

Nope. 250,000-500,000 deaths a year from the flu. 5 million serious cases.

Return of pandemic H1N1 influenza virus

Influenza pandemics are usually caused by the re-assortment of several influenza viruses, results in the emergence of new influenza virus strains that can infect the entire population. These pandemic strains, as well as seasonal influenza viruses, are ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What's your stupid point?

This is on TOP of that...is more contagious and more lethal

No vaccine either. That's 12-18 months off. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who don't get a basic flu shot every fall. But sure do for those who caught this baby - easily 15 times more deadly. Also WAY more contagious partly due to the fact that nobody's been vaccinated.

 

[kyzr]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

The average seasonal flu death rate is .1%

The average coronavirus death rate in the United States is 1.77%

The average coronavirus death rate in Italy is 11.03%

So the coronavirus death is anywhere from 17 times to 110 times as deadly as season flu.

More importantly ask yourself this: If this is nothing more serious then seasonal flu, why are cities building new make shift hospitals and make shift morgues? Why are hospitals at capacity with their ICU Beds? Why are there not enough Ventilators?

If you take time to think about and answer those questions, you will realize that stating this is nothing more serious than seasonal flu is total rubbish.

Are you really comparing Italy's demographic to the United States? This is why we can't count on MSM or people to remain calm, and not spread propaganda.

Were at the start of this crises, and only a fool would ignore what is going on in Italy.

Just to support your point about Italy, at yesterday's presser Dr. Birx said that the EU countries are on average about 9-years older than the US. That could explain, at least in part, why they are getting creamed by COVID-19. The graph below divides the US number to make the populations equal. It looks like the Italy curve is starting to bend down toward a peak, before starting downward.
View attachment 317084

I swear, every time I see you post you’re claiming to see the curve bending downwards.

Like, I think you’ve been saying this every day for two weeks.

Here is a different graph from Johns Hopkins showing "new cases", and it looks like a peak is forming. The last bar is 3/28 at 19.4k new cases. Yesterday 3/29 was 19.9k new cases, so unless we break the 20k line I'm hoping we're at or very near the peak.
View attachment 317096

Hope is great.

But you’ve said this repeatedly and repeatedly been incorrect. How about a little patience?

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

 

[DrLove]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

The USA is becoming the new epicenter. Look at what is happening in Europe and do not be stupid. Trump will not save you.

it only appears that way because we are doing more testing than anyone else. And, the majority of those who get it (80%) will have no symptoms, and 98+% of those who get it will survive.

China has lied from the beginning about its numbers and mortality rates, the rate of new infections in Europe seems to be coming down, and thats a good trend.

Stop the Trump-hate and try to look at this realistically. but you won't because you are a sheep of your masters at CNN

Oh Sweet Jesus. We are doing a TENTH or TWENTIETH the amount of testing as a lot of other countries. Doing more testing? Freaking LEARN SOMETHING.

 

[colfax_m]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

The average seasonal flu death rate is .1%

The average coronavirus death rate in the United States is 1.77%

The average coronavirus death rate in Italy is 11.03%

So the coronavirus death is anywhere from 17 times to 110 times as deadly as season flu.

More importantly ask yourself this: If this is nothing more serious then seasonal flu, why are cities building new make shift hospitals and make shift morgues? Why are hospitals at capacity with their ICU Beds? Why are there not enough Ventilators?

If you take time to think about and answer those questions, you will realize that stating this is nothing more serious than seasonal flu is total rubbish.

Are you really comparing Italy's demographic to the United States? This is why we can't count on MSM or people to remain calm, and not spread propaganda.

Were at the start of this crises, and only a fool would ignore what is going on in Italy.

Just to support your point about Italy, at yesterday's presser Dr. Birx said that the EU countries are on average about 9-years older than the US. That could explain, at least in part, why they are getting creamed by COVID-19. The graph below divides the US number to make the populations equal. It looks like the Italy curve is starting to bend down toward a peak, before starting downward.
View attachment 317084

I swear, every time I see you post you’re claiming to see the curve bending downwards.

Like, I think you’ve been saying this every day for two weeks.

Here is a different graph from Johns Hopkins showing "new cases", and it looks like a peak is forming. The last bar is 3/28 at 19.4k new cases. Yesterday 3/29 was 19.9k new cases, so unless we break the 20k line I'm hoping we're at or very near the peak.
View attachment 317096

Hope is great.

But you’ve said this repeatedly and repeatedly been incorrect. How about a little patience?

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Yeah. That’s what I mean. It doesn’t serve any purpose.

 

[DrLove]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

Stats for the USA as of yesterday. From the CDC

142,000 cases of Corona virus
2500 deaths
4800 recoveries

mortality rate 1.75%


18,000,000 flu like illnesses
24.000 deaths
.13% mortality rate

So which one has the biggest impact on Americans and our medical system?

I’m not going to let you crawfish away from this.

You said the CDC’s worst projections indicated this would be less severe than the influenza. Your own link proves you wrong.

If COVID ends tomorrow, then it’ll clearly have a much smaller impact on Americans than influenza. But that’s unfortunately not going to happen.

that link gave old projections, that have been proven incorrect. The current stats that I posted earlier today give a much more accurate projection.

If you can do basic math, run the numbers for corona and flu out for two more months and see what you get------------then report back and admit that you were wrong.

BTW, the crawfish season is doing quite well in spite of all the restaurants being closed. Take out is booming

Projections yesterday were for 100-200k deaths, by Fauci and the president himself. That’s higher than any recent year’s tally of deaths from influenza by a factor of 2 to 10.

The statistics you just gave were not projections at all but current tallies. Go ahead and provide an updated projection if you think you’re still correct.

They both said that those were worst case projections that Fauci and Brix emphasized were not expected because of what we are doing to reduce the infection rate.

but you are free to panic if it makes you feel good.

No, that is NOT what either Fauci, Birx OR Donald said. 100-200k is the BEST case scenario assuming we do everything PERFECTLY from here on out.

The worst is 1-2 MILLION.

Sure would be nice if Donnie hadn't dithered for over two months y'think?

 

[DrLove]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

I think that is all Trump was trying to do, not scare the pants off people so that they refuse to go to work even though its relatively safe.

Cuomo had an upbeat presser today.
1. More people leaving the hospital each of the last 8-days.
2. Fewer people entering the hospitals the last few days. (a trend or a blip? we'll know next week)

Not to jinx us, but it looks from the last few days that the US curve is bending downward to a peak, like the EU appears to be doing. We'll know that in the next week or two.
View attachment 316848

I would say information like this is why the lockdowns must continue. We might, just might be starting to make some headway against this thing. Here is some other good information to report.

The percentage rate of increase in confirmed cases per day has been declining for a few days now:

March 24, 2020 - United States - 54,916
March 25, 2020 - United States - 68,489 - 24.7% increase
March 26, 2020 - United States - 85,594 - 24.97% increase
March 27, 2020 - United States - 104,256 - 21.8% increase
March 28, 2020 - United States - 123,776 - 18.7% increase
March 29, 2020 - United States - 142,224 - 14.9% increase

the trend seems to be going the right way. Trump's new date of 4/30 is looking possible.

June 30, 2020 is more realistic. You can't take any chances with this. Its so easy to transmit among people. A choir met for practice in Washington State on March 10, 2020. 60 people came in. They had hand sanitizer, no handshakes or hugs and practice social distancing keeping several feet between each person. No one who came were showing any symptoms.

45 out of the 60 choir members were infected with coronavirus. Of those 5 were hospitalized and two died.

This shows that despite hand cleaning and social distancing, just a couple of people not showing symptoms can infect a large group of people in a building.

No one should be allowed to go back to work at a non-essential service until they have tested NEGATIVE for coronavirus. Thanks to Trump, we don't have the capability to do that yet.

you had a good post going until you added the political bullshit. thanks to Trump and his team, we have more testing capacity than any other country in the world and we are doing more testing than any country in the world.

STFU with the politics and we can beat this thing.

Please stop lying about the testing. You are FOS

Infographic: COVID-19: Has The U.S. Closed The Testing Gap?

This chart shows the number of COVID-19 tests performed per million of the population (April 06, 2020).

www.statista.com

 

[kyzr]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

The USA is becoming the new epicenter. Look at what is happening in Europe and do not be stupid. Trump will not save you.

it only appears that way because we are doing more testing than anyone else. And, the majority of those who get it (80%) will have no symptoms, and 98+% of those who get it will survive.

China has lied from the beginning about its numbers and mortality rates, the rate of new infections in Europe seems to be coming down, and thats a good trend.

Stop the Trump-hate and try to look at this realistically. but you won't because you are a sheep of your masters at CNN

Oh Sweet Jesus. We are doing a TENTH or TWENTIETH the amount of testing as a lot of other countries. Doing more testing? Freaking LEARN SOMETHING.

That was right last month but not now. Right now the US is doing more testing than the rest of the world combined. Our new tests can be done in 15-minutes and 5-minutes, with better accuracy.

 

[DrLove]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

The USA is becoming the new epicenter. Look at what is happening in Europe and do not be stupid. Trump will not save you.

it only appears that way because we are doing more testing than anyone else. And, the majority of those who get it (80%) will have no symptoms, and 98+% of those who get it will survive.

China has lied from the beginning about its numbers and mortality rates, the rate of new infections in Europe seems to be coming down, and thats a good trend.

Stop the Trump-hate and try to look at this realistically. but you won't because you are a sheep of your masters at CNN

Oh Sweet Jesus. We are doing a TENTH or TWENTIETH the amount of testing as a lot of other countries. Doing more testing? Freaking LEARN SOMETHING.

That was right last month but not now. Right now the US is doing more testing than the rest of the world combined. Our new tests can be done in 15-minutes and 5-minutes, with better accuracy.

Nonsense ^

Infographic: COVID-19: Has The U.S. Closed The Testing Gap?

This chart shows the number of COVID-19 tests performed per million of the population (April 06, 2020).

www.statista.com

 

[Richard-H]

Perhaps they should lower the social security retirement age down to 60 years old.

Let the young people go back to work and the older people continue self-isolation.

 

[colfax_m]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

you missed "in more than a year" compare that to 2 years of flu deaths. Those projections are not recent, they are several weeks old and the current ones are significantly lower.

I am not saying we should ignore it, just that the panic is unnecessary.

The USA is becoming the new epicenter. Look at what is happening in Europe and do not be stupid. Trump will not save you.

it only appears that way because we are doing more testing than anyone else. And, the majority of those who get it (80%) will have no symptoms, and 98+% of those who get it will survive.

China has lied from the beginning about its numbers and mortality rates, the rate of new infections in Europe seems to be coming down, and thats a good trend.

Stop the Trump-hate and try to look at this realistically. but you won't because you are a sheep of your masters at CNN

Oh Sweet Jesus. We are doing a TENTH or TWENTIETH the amount of testing as a lot of other countries. Doing more testing? Freaking LEARN SOMETHING.

That was right last month but not now. Right now the US is doing more testing than the rest of the world combined. Our new tests can be done in 15-minutes and 5-minutes, with better accuracy.

What is your source for this? I am having a hard time locating the number of tests run daily in the EU as it’s not reported on the ECDC website (as far as I can tell).