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Personal experience makes believing difficult.

SavannahMann

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As World War One ended, the German Veterans returned to their homes, and found essentially disaster. People were starving. People were wearing ragged clothing. They were cold, hungry, and miserable. The German Soldiers did not understand. They had won the battles. Their most recent push Operation Michael was a enormous success by their estimation. They won the battles but lost the war. It was inconceivable.

Hitler was among those who believed that Germany had been betrayed from within. The Germans would have won the war except for the Jews and their allies who betrayed Germany. Hitler was not alone. Many people believed this.

They believed that Germany had better technology, weapons, soldiers, Generals, and you name it. German was always superior. So the only way the superior could lose is betrayal. Communists and Jews were one in the same to Hitler and those like him. And they were responsible for Germany’s defeat.

Their experiences would not allow them to even consider the idea that the war was lost because of too many erroneous ideals that began it.

We Americans are no different. How many times have we all heard how the War in Vietnam could have been won if the Politicians were not opposed to Victory. And truthfully, the Troops in Vietnam won the battles. But they could never win the war. The Vietnamese had defeated the Japanese and then the French. Including some of the best soldiers in the world, The Foreign Legion. The Legion is legendary for a reason, they have performed miracles in history. But they couldn’t defeat Vietnam.

Right now, we are fleeing Afghanistan. We never stood a chance. Nobody in history has ever conquered Afghanistan. But we were going to be first. We weren’t going to conquer them, we were going to liberate them. If they didn’t know they wanted to be Liberated, we would explain it to them. Victory would go to our side because we had the technology, and the smarts to make it happen.

We “turned over” the Baghram Airbase to the Afghanis. We know they can’t hold it. We know the Taliban is taking over, and we don’t care. We’re like everyone else in History. We just want out.

In a year, Afghanistan will again be under control of the Taliban. Twenty years and thousands of lives and billions of dollars did nothing.

So why do people make this mistake? Well we like to think of ourselves as Normal. We’re one of the group, the crowd, the people. If we are one of them, we must think like them. Our experiences are not unusual. We may be smarter than those around us, or those around us may be smart as hell. But we’re normal.

We can’t imagine that others think differently. We can’t fathom the idea that we are a minority with our beliefs. We don’t want to believe it. It can’t be true. We’re normal. Most people, a vast majority believe as we do.

We are normal after all.

Then there is the internet. It presents a lot of opportunity for “Confirmation Bias”.


In Short. Let’s say you are driving to a stadium that you’ve never been to before. You are sure it is to the right. You see a bunch of cars ahead turning right. You follow them. The cars turning right are probably headed the same place you are. One has a bumper sticker showing they support the team.

You saw no signs, no directions, and didn’t want to use a map or ask directions of a local. You took the plethora of cars turning right to support your supposition that it was to the right.

Confirmation Bias is something you can battle. But with the modern internet, it takes effort. You have to seek out alternate sources of news. You have to consider what they are saying, and you have to search for the facts. Neither side in our political discussions have the truth cornered to their side alone.

If all you read is articles and news from people who share your beliefs, you start to believe that everyone thinks that way. So when faced with a result that doesn’t go your way, you start to figure out why it happened. The first and most obvious answer, you were wrong, doesn’t even get considered.

So like Hitler in Germany during the 1920’s, you start to find proofs, as you see them, of the betrayal or criminal. You read the articles, and you don’t question them. You have confirmation bias.

You are human, and making a very human mistake. A mistake made many times in history. And one we should have learned from before now.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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In a year, Afghanistan will again be under control of the Taliban. Twenty years and thousands of lives and billions of dollars did nothing.
More like less than six months.

The question is: has the Unites States finally learned its lesson.

When women are again being executed in soccer stadiums for adultery, will we have the strength and courage to not interfere.
 

Prof.Lunaphiles

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The United States State Department does not have a reliable government charter system to provide to developing nations - that is a real shame. You would think that all of these non-white social justice warriors and lawyers would do the Moon shot.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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In a year, Afghanistan will again be under control of the Taliban. Twenty years and thousands of lives and billions of dollars did nothing.
More like less than six months.

The question is: has the Unites States finally learned its lesson.

When women are again being executed in soccer stadiums for adultery, will we have the strength and courage to not interfere.

We went in to take the safe haven away from Terrorists. We wanted to stay until it was safe to leave without turning the country back over to those who provided the safe haven.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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The United States State Department does not have a reliable government charter system to provide to developing nations - that is a real shame. You would think that all of these non-white social justice warriors and lawyers would do the Moon shot.

Oh the State Department people can describe any number of Government Systems. The problem is that they all need something to work.

The Presidential system we have. Ripe for abuse by Dictators without a Strong Congress to counter. See how many President’s for life there have been in history as one example of this.

The Strictly Parliamentary system like Britain has. Good, doesn’t lend itself to abuse by Dictators. The Cabinet has to approve most things. But is unwieldy and difficult to make it work. In a nation in flux, you end up with a new Government every six months as alliances change and shift. Nothing ever gets done because someone is always forming a new Government.

In the end, what is best is determined by those who will be living with the system. They need to decide what they want to have.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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If we just kicked ass and left and gave up the whole nation building crap it would be a lot easier to declare victory.

Declaring Victory is fine. But remember why we went in. Afghanistan was the base of Operations for Al Queda. Osama bin Laden?

We wanted the Taliban to turn over the AQ members to us, and they refused. So we had to go in and root them out. Doing so with the Taliban behind us was suicide. So unseating them had to be the first step.

And the problems began there. Because the Village Leaders didn’t want to learn a new Government. They wanted things to keep operating the way they always had. With the Chief making the decisions with input from his fellow leaders, but the decision was his.

I watched a Documentary on Afghanistan, and one unit in the area doing outreach to the Villagers. The problem was the Village Chief only wanted to talk about the people who had been killed by Americans several years ago. The Americans wouldn’t even discuss it, instead wanting to talk about rooting out the Terrorists.

A stupid mistake years ago, killing someone who wasn’t a terrorist, had soured relations for the foreseeable future. Predictable, tragic, and from that moment on the Army was spinning it’s wheels in that Village.

Once we had rooted out AQ and that, we didn’t dare leave. Because if we did, we knew the Taliban would be back, and the next batch of Terrorists would be setting up shop. We would be in and out of Afghanistan for centuries that way.

We needed them to have a steady Government that would prevent the Terrorists from finding safe haven. And so we tried to drag Afghanistan out of the 7th Century, and we failed. Worse, by leaving pretty much all those people who had helped us behind, when we do have to go back, and we will, nobody will help us ever again. They know the Americans won’t keep their word about taking are of those who helped us.
 

justinacolmena

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Jews and their allies who betrayed Germany
I don't like that bloody vicious red light police state district the Jews were running downtown in every village, city and county throughout Europe.
Communists and Jews were one in the same to Hitler and those like him
They were businessmen and shopkeepers who constantly called the cops on their customers, and had blacks and other minorities jailed to appease wealthy whites.
“Confirmation Bias”
Yeah. We think "we" won the war because that's what we are led to believe by history books put out by the Jewish mainstream media publishing houses. But we lost. NSA can tell you that. There's a vicious Jewish health district downtown everywhere in America — bloody as hell and based on Doctors' lust for the carnage of human flesh.

Israel got too bold when they demolished that condo in Florida, beginning their evil work while it was still occupied, and killing many of the residents.
 

Tipsycatlover

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No country ever has a chance to conquer Afghanistan. Afghanistan cannot be conquered because it is not a country. The landmass is called Afghanistan as a matter of geographic expression. In reality, it is a collection of tribes presided over by warlords. Fighting is like punching balloons. Bring peace to one tribe, three more fall into war. The friendly leader is assassinated and an enemy takes his place.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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Jews and their allies who betrayed Germany
I don't like that bloody vicious red light police state district the Jews were running downtown in every village, city and county throughout Europe.
Communists and Jews were one in the same to Hitler and those like him
They were businessmen and shopkeepers who constantly called the cops on their customers, and had blacks and other minorities jailed to appease wealthy whites.
“Confirmation Bias”
Yeah. We think "we" won the war because that's what we are led to believe by history books put out by the Jewish mainstream media publishing houses. But we lost. NSA can tell you that. There's a vicious Jewish health district downtown everywhere in America — bloody as hell and based on Doctors' lust for the carnage of human flesh.

Israel got too bold when they demolished that condo in Florida, beginning their evil work while it was still occupied, and killing many of the residents.

Talk to your Doctor, your meds need adjusting.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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NewsVine_Mariyam

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If we just kicked ass and left and gave up the whole nation building crap it would be a lot easier to declare victory.

Declaring Victory is fine. But remember why we went in. Afghanistan was the base of Operations for Al Queda. Osama bin Laden?

We wanted the Taliban to turn over the AQ members to us, and they refused. So we had to go in and root them out. Doing so with the Taliban behind us was suicide. So unseating them had to be the first step.

And the problems began there. Because the Village Leaders didn’t want to learn a new Government. They wanted things to keep operating the way they always had. With the Chief making the decisions with input from his fellow leaders, but the decision was his.

I watched a Documentary on Afghanistan, and one unit in the area doing outreach to the Villagers. The problem was the Village Chief only wanted to talk about the people who had been killed by Americans several years ago. The Americans wouldn’t even discuss it, instead wanting to talk about rooting out the Terrorists.

A stupid mistake years ago, killing someone who wasn’t a terrorist, had soured relations for the foreseeable future. Predictable, tragic, and from that moment on the Army was spinning it’s wheels in that Village.

Once we had rooted out AQ and that, we didn’t dare leave. Because if we did, we knew the Taliban would be back, and the next batch of Terrorists would be setting up shop. We would be in and out of Afghanistan for centuries that way.

We needed them to have a steady Government that would prevent the Terrorists from finding safe haven. And so we tried to drag Afghanistan out of the 7th Century, and we failed. Worse, by leaving pretty much all those people who had helped us behind, when we do have to go back, and we will, nobody will help us ever again. They know the Americans won’t keep their word about taking are of those who helped us.
it goes back further than that:

How America Supported the Anti-Soviet Mujahideen Rebels in 1980s Afghanistan



At the end of 1979 the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in order to support the Communist-inspired Afghan government. This led to a decade-long conflict in which the anti-Soviet Islamic Mujahideen rebels were supported by the United States. Here, Daniel Boustead tells us about the conflict and some of the negative unintended consequences of American support for the rebels.
A Soviet military offensive against the Mujahideen.


A Soviet military offensive against the Mujahideen.​
From 1979 to 1989 the Americans supported the Mujahideen Islamic rebels in their fight against the Soviet Union’s invasion. The Americans supported the rebels as a means of inflicting their own “Vietnam” on the Soviet Union. The decision in sending weapons to the anti-Communist rebels helped turn the tide of the war in the rebels favor and doomed the Soviet Union - and later the USA. American support for rebels in Afghanistan, was one of a number of Carter and Reagan’s foreign policy blunders that hurt America and Israel. The U.S. decision to support the rebels in Afghanistan was a strategic miscalculation and the wrong way to overcome our defeat in Vietnam. This was known as “Vietnam Syndrome”, which haunts America to this day.​
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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If we just kicked ass and left and gave up the whole nation building crap it would be a lot easier to declare victory.

Declaring Victory is fine. But remember why we went in. Afghanistan was the base of Operations for Al Queda. Osama bin Laden?

We wanted the Taliban to turn over the AQ members to us, and they refused. So we had to go in and root them out. Doing so with the Taliban behind us was suicide. So unseating them had to be the first step.

And the problems began there. Because the Village Leaders didn’t want to learn a new Government. They wanted things to keep operating the way they always had. With the Chief making the decisions with input from his fellow leaders, but the decision was his.

I watched a Documentary on Afghanistan, and one unit in the area doing outreach to the Villagers. The problem was the Village Chief only wanted to talk about the people who had been killed by Americans several years ago. The Americans wouldn’t even discuss it, instead wanting to talk about rooting out the Terrorists.

A stupid mistake years ago, killing someone who wasn’t a terrorist, had soured relations for the foreseeable future. Predictable, tragic, and from that moment on the Army was spinning it’s wheels in that Village.

Once we had rooted out AQ and that, we didn’t dare leave. Because if we did, we knew the Taliban would be back, and the next batch of Terrorists would be setting up shop. We would be in and out of Afghanistan for centuries that way.

We needed them to have a steady Government that would prevent the Terrorists from finding safe haven. And so we tried to drag Afghanistan out of the 7th Century, and we failed. Worse, by leaving pretty much all those people who had helped us behind, when we do have to go back, and we will, nobody will help us ever again. They know the Americans won’t keep their word about taking are of those who helped us.
it goes back further than that:

How America Supported the Anti-Soviet Mujahideen Rebels in 1980s Afghanistan



At the end of 1979 the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in order to support the Communist-inspired Afghan government. This led to a decade-long conflict in which the anti-Soviet Islamic Mujahideen rebels were supported by the United States. Here, Daniel Boustead tells us about the conflict and some of the negative unintended consequences of American support for the rebels.
A Soviet military offensive against the Mujahideen.


A Soviet military offensive against the Mujahideen.​
From 1979 to 1989 the Americans supported the Mujahideen Islamic rebels in their fight against the Soviet Union’s invasion. The Americans supported the rebels as a means of inflicting their own “Vietnam” on the Soviet Union. The decision in sending weapons to the anti-Communist rebels helped turn the tide of the war in the rebels favor and doomed the Soviet Union - and later the USA. American support for rebels in Afghanistan, was one of a number of Carter and Reagan’s foreign policy blunders that hurt America and Israel. The U.S. decision to support the rebels in Afghanistan was a strategic miscalculation and the wrong way to overcome our defeat in Vietnam. This was known as “Vietnam Syndrome”, which haunts America to this day.​

First we need to deal in reality. Regardless of us providing weapons to the various groups with one objective, drive the infidels out. They were going to win. The idea was simple.

The enemy of my enemy may be my friend.

The Russians had done it to us twice. In Korea and in Vietnam. So we knew from first hand experience that it did work.

In Korea Russian Pilots flew as North Koreans shooting down our planes.

Weapons flowed across the border to keep the Communist North Koreans and Chinese equipped to fight.

In Vietnam the Russians were able to test our their advanced anti aircraft systems on our planes. As one example of the actions of the Soviets.

The Mujahideen wanted to fight. And they would not quit. So the weapons were the sticking point.

Now the strategy was sound. Based on accepted philosophy. And the old men we talked to in the 00’s were the young men we had supplied two decades before. The problem was that some were always going to see us as just more infidels.

Like Vietnam. We tested our weapons in actual combat conditions. The Stingers worked very well indeed.

Now. The Soviets pulled out a decade before the famed attacks on 9-11. Our mistake was one that was less than obvious. What if there were people who didn’t want to end the war?

When the war is over our soldiers are happy to go home. Most of the Mujhideen felt the same way. But not all.

The Russians invaded. But we were the great Satan. We were the enemy now.

Here we are. With the common mistake in studying history. We know how it turned out. The people involved didn’t know. If they had a CIA agent would have shot bin Laden in the head multiple times.

It is easy to criticize mistakes from the future. It is much harder to do so from the present.

Remember Syria. When people objected to arming the rebels. Pointing to Afghanistan as a historical warning. How we were told that these were Moderate Jihadists?

I called bullshit. I’ve said before Syria and Libya were two of the reasons I voted for Trump over Hillary.

Taking an action that you don’t know will end badly is forgivable. Taking an action history says will end badly is not.
 

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