Pelosi Tries, But Cheney Beats Her

[Annie]

on message:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070222/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq

Cheney slams Iraq plan advocated by Dems

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent 49 minutes ago

Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday harshly criticized Democrats' attempts to thwart President Bush's troop buildup in Iraq, saying their approach would "validate the al-Qaida strategy." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record) fired back that Cheney was questioning critics' patriotism.

"I hope the president will repudiate and distance himself from the vice president's remarks," Pelosi said. She said she tried to complain about Cheney to President Bush but could not reach him.

"You cannot say as the president of the United States, 'I welcome disagreement in a time of war,' and then have the vice president of the United States go out of the country and mischaracterize a position of the speaker of the House and in a manner that says that person in that position of authority is acting against the national security of our country," the speaker said.

The quarrel began in Tokyo, where Cheney used an interview to criticize Pelosi and Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), D-Pa., over their plan to place restrictions on Bush's request for an additional $93 billion for the Iraq war to make it difficult or impossible to send 21,500 extra troops to Iraq.

"I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we will do is validate the al-Qaida strategy," the vice president told ABC News. "The al-Qaida strategy is to break the will of the American people ... try to persuade us to throw in the towel and come home, and then they win because we quit."

In the interview, Cheney also said Britain's plans to withdraw about 1,600 troops from Iraq — while the United States adds more troops — was a positive step. "I look at it and see it is actually an affirmation that there are parts of Iraq where things are going pretty well," the vice president said.

Pelosi, at a news conference in San Francisco, said Cheney's criticism of Democrats was "beneath the dignity of the debate we're engaged in and a disservice to our men and women in uniform, whom we all support."

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[Avatar4321]

I think Pelosi is too quick to defend the patriotism that no one has mentioned.

The fact is her plan will help Al Qaida. Everyone who has have a brain realizes it. One doesnt have to mention her patriotism to point out the stupidity of her actions.

 

[maineman]

I think Pelosi is too quick to defend the patriotism that no one has mentioned.

The fact is her plan will help Al Qaida. Everyone who has have a brain realizes it. One doesnt have to mention her patriotism to point out the stupidity of her actions.

statements such as that denigrating anyone who disagrees with you certainly are presumptuous and inflammatory and do little if anything to further the course of the debate. I have a brain and I believe that Al Qaeda wins when arabs and muslims are angry with their current situation. Our departure from the mean streets of Baghdad removes an irritant that angers both sunnis and shiites alike.

 

[90K]

I have a brain and I believe that Al Qaeda wins when arabs and muslims are angry with their current situation. Our departure from the mean streets of Baghdad removes an irritant that angers both sunnis and shiites alike.

I'll agree on this comment because it is the Arabs alone who if they really care will stand up against al qaeda. When we leave that area it will turn into a civil war and that was going to happen when saddam was removed from power even if that was all we did in this war. That region is using our presense as an excuse they have hated each other for generations and once we leave it will be game on.

 

[maineman]

I'll agree on this comment because it is the Arabs alone who if they really care will stand up against al qaeda. When we leave that area it will turn into a civil war and that was going to happen when saddam was removed from power even if that was all we did in this war. That region is using our presense as an excuse they have hated each other for generations and once we leave it will be game on.

precisely...and the only thing we "gain" by prolonging our departure is more red blood spilled and more red ink.... the sunnis and shiites in Iraq were forced to coexist by a strong tyrant. In his absence, they will kill one another until they get a bellyful of it and can stomach no more. Then and only then will they sit down at the table and divvy up the resources and territory of Iraq - which was cobbled together by a bunch of Europeans at the end of the FIRST world war who hadn't a clue about the animosities between the people they were forcing together. This war has been a century in the making. Given the fact that America should be focusing on the very real threat of islamic extremism right now, this unnecessary war in Iraq is siphoning off resources, and evaporating goodwill that we could use much more effectively elsewhere.

 

[Merlin]

statements such as that denigrating anyone who disagrees with you certainly are presumptuous and inflammatory and do little if anything to further the course of the debate. I have a brain and I believe that Al Qaeda wins when arabs and muslims are angry with their current situation. Our departure from the mean streets of Baghdad removes an irritant that angers both sunnis and shiites alike.

You're spewing poppycock, pure and simple. Pelosi is the stupidest, most arrogant, self centered enemy that we have today.

 

[maineman]

You're spewing poppycock, pure and simple. Pelosi is the stupidest, most arrogant, self centered enemy that we have today.

whatever.... you're a f***king troll.

 

[maineman]

You're spewing poppycock, pure and simple. Pelosi is the stupidest, most arrogant, self centered enemy that we have today.

and while you're at it, what specifically did I say above that you consider "poppycock"?

I'll wait.

 

[90K]

precisely...and the only thing we "gain" by prolonging our departure is more red blood spilled and more red ink.... the sunnis and shiites in Iraq were forced to coexist by a strong tyrant. In his absence, they will kill one another until they get a bellyful of it and can stomach no more. Then and only then will they sit down at the table and divvy up the resources and territory of Iraq - which was cobbled together by a bunch of Europeans at the end of the FIRST world war who hadn't a clue about the animosities between the people they were forcing together. This war has been a century in the making. Given the fact that America should be focusing on the very real threat of islamic extremism right now, this unnecessary war in Iraq is siphoning off resources, and evaporating goodwill that we could use much more effectively elsewhere.

Well the other thing would have been splitting Iraq into 3 states with 3 leaders and agendas. But as we've seen in the world these people won't be happy even when they kill each other and the world whomever they are, will have to go in and try and get these crazed race in order.
I agree we need to focus on the threats that are real and the ones that put us in danger at home.

 

[maineman]

Well the other thing would have been splitting Iraq into 3 states with 3 leaders and agendas. But as we've seen in the world these people won't be happy even when they kill each other and the world whomever they are, will have to go in and try and get these crazed race in order.
I agree we need to focus on the threats that are real and the ones that put us in danger at home.

in the aftermath of the ottoman empire, Europe just drew arbitrary lines around stuff...they had no clue who lived there or what issues the folks had with one another...from the perspective of Europe, they were all rag headed brown skinned little monkeys anyway... sunni..shiite...kurd... who cared?

 

[Avatar4321]

statements such as that denigrating anyone who disagrees with you certainly are presumptuous and inflammatory and do little if anything to further the course of the debate. I have a brain and I believe that Al Qaeda wins when arabs and muslims are angry with their current situation. Our departure from the mean streets of Baghdad removes an irritant that angers both sunnis and shiites alike.

So explain to me how turning the Muslims in Iraq over to Al qaida members to oppress is going to make them less angry at us?

 

[maineman]

So explain to me how turning the Muslims in Iraq over to Al qaida members to oppress is going to make them less angry at us?

So explain to me your assertion that the sunnis and the shiites - or the kurds, for that matter - of Iraq would allow their country to be taken over by foreigners from Al Qaeda and allow themselves to be oppressed if we were to leave. Do you think 28 million Iraqis would just roll over for some band of outsiders? Do tell!

I'll wait.

 

[maineman]

and wait...

 

[90K]

My perception here is that the country as a whole is very dependant on being controlled. I don't see the Iraqis as able to control there own country. If they were so eager to control it I believe we'd seen more willingness to control and to remove these foreign fighters. To me this is the question? What will these people do in a country that doesn't have the will power to stand up against terror? You mass enough people at a target and two things will happen: 1 they'll all die in the process or 2 they'll defeat the terror because the terrorist won't have any bullets left.

 

[maineman]

My perception here is that the country as a whole is very dependant on being controlled. I don't see the Iraqis as able to control there own country. If they were so eager to control it I believe we'd seen more willingness to control and to remove these foreign fighters. To me this is the question? What will these people do in a country that doesn't have the will power to stand up against terror? You mass enough people at a target and two things will happen: 1 they'll all die in the process or 2 they'll defeat the terror because the terrorist won't have any bullets left.

I think that even today, the "foreign fighters" make up a miniscule portion of the combatants. The carnage in Iraq is overwhelmingly because sunnis and shiites are killing one another.... al qaeda is a bit player, but the administration needs to keep the illusion that they are the driving force behind the insurgency so that they can always make the 9/11 connection and tap into the american wellspring of fear and revenge.

 

[90K]

If we has the Anglo race and really as a nation could pull together like the arabs have, hear me out on this idea then we could be a very powerful force. See they may hate each other to some extent but through language and writing they have become very powerful with the use of al qaeda, hezbolla, and other factions in this war of terror. They are everywhere and they hold a certain power and the whole lot of Middle Eastern folk can identify and know who everyone is.
If you recall Iraq didn't even have cell phones before the war, a country after my heart

 

[maineman]

If we has the Anglo race and really as a nation could pull together like the arabs have, hear me out on this idea then we could be a very powerful force. See they may hate each other to some extent but through language and writing they have become very powerful with the use of al qaeda, hezbolla, and other factions in this war of terror. They are everywhere and they hold a certain power and the whole lot of Middle Eastern folk can identify and know who everyone is.
If you recall Iraq didn't even have cell phones before the war, a country after my heart

there are lots of different ideologies in the islamic world.... there is no unified allstar team of hezbollah/al qaeda/hamas/et.al. getting together to fight us in the war on terror. That is a false construct. And muslims may know who all the players are, but, trust me, they only identify with their own team.

 

[90K]

there are lots of different ideologies in the islamic world.... there is no unified allstar team of hezbollah/al qaeda/hamas/et.al. getting together to fight us in the war on terror. That is a false construct. And muslims may know who all the players are, but, trust me, they only identify with their own team.

And that would be the right and logical thing to do. 30% is about what the radical muslims make up over the billions in the world. But that is a pretty sugnificant amount when using terror as the great motivator.

 

[Avatar4321]

So explain to me your assertion that the sunnis and the shiites - or the kurds, for that matter - of Iraq would allow their country to be taken over by foreigners from Al Qaeda and allow themselves to be oppressed if we were to leave. Do you think 28 million Iraqis would just roll over for some band of outsiders? Do tell!

I'll wait.

They have control over their nation. Did you miss the elections. If we pull out now the terrorist will begin oppressing the people with violence. We will see the killing fields again. How many times does this have to occur before you people understand the consequences of not beating evil is widespread death and destruction?

 

[maineman]

They have control over their nation. Did you miss the elections. If we pull out now the terrorist will begin oppressing the people with violence. We will see the killing fields again. How many times does this have to occur before you people understand the consequences of not beating evil is widespread death and destruction?

you didn't answer my question. Why would a country of 28 million Iraqis allow themselves to be oppressed by outsiders? Do the Al Qaeda terrorists have superpowers? Iraqis are killing Iraqis right now because they have wanted to kill one another to varying degrees for a millenium... and they have wanted to kill one another since Britain took its prize from the Ottomans and split one chunk of it up and called it Iraq,,, and they have REALLY wanted to kill each other since Saddam kept them all under his thumb and wouldn't allow them to rampantly kill each other, and now, that we removed Saddam, they are finally getting their chance. This has little to nothing to do withAl Qaeda and terrorists oppressing the indiginous population....it has to do with one segment of the population being hellbent on killing another segment of the population and vice versa.