Palestinians: 10,000 years ago, since Abraham or since the Mandate for Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

They were Canaanites from the Northwest Coast of Syria.. .. No different than all the other Canaanite tribes in the area.

And still.....AGAIN.....The Jewish Nation is the only one which has survived through history and time and continues ticking.

 

[surada]

And still.....AGAIN.....The Jewish Nation is the only one which has survived through history and time and continues ticking.

They returned after a 2000 year absence and somebody else picked up the tab.

In 1950 Chaim Weissman planned and sought forcible deportation of the rest of the Palestinians to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Indeependent]

They returned after a 2000 year absence and somebody else picked up the tab.

In 1950 Chaim Weissman planned and sought forcible deportation of the rest of the Palestinians to Saudi Arabia.

You’re leaving out all the nations whose borders and populations were moved post WWII and are still killing each other.

 

[surada]

You’re leaving out all the nations whose borders and populations were moved post WWII and are still killing each other.

Which countries are you speaking of.. In the OT its grievous sin to move boundary stones.

All those Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians and Iraqis have always lived there.. They didn't migrate from Russia or Poland.

 

[Indeependent]

Which countries are you speaking of.. In the OT its grievous sin to move boundary stones.

All those Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians and Iraqis have always lived there.. They didn't migrate from Russia or Poland.

Balkans, several Arab nations, Japan and a bunch of others.
Canaan conquered Shem and Sham came back and conquered Canaan.

 

[Sixties Fan]

( This is an interesting theory on the word Palestine )

Another interesting point- The Septuagint translators tended to translate place-names rather than transliterate them, especially where familiar Greek names existed. (In the transliteration, Grecisms would be substituted where appropriate, as Paris becomes Parigi in Italian or Beijing once became Peking in English). Thus, for example, the Septuagint translates Yam Suf (the Red Sea) as Erythra Thalassa, Greek words meaning “Red Sea.” Likewise, Mitzraim (Egypt) is rendered not with a transliteration of the Hebrew but with the Greek Aigyptos. That the Septuagint school of translators did not do the same in the case of the Hebrew Peleshet (the land) and Pelishtim (the people) is indicated by the fact that the term they used, Philistieim, has a Semitic, rather than a Greek, ending. In other words, Philistieim is a transliterated term from the Hebrew for the Philistine people. Palaistinê and Palaistinoi must therefore signify something else.

Startling as it may sound, I would argue that “Palestine” is the Greek equivalent of “Israel.”
The word Palaistinê is remarkably similar to the Greek palaistês, meaning “wrestler,” “rival” or “adversary.”12 This similarity in spelling was noticed over 60 years ago by the German Bible scholar Martin Noth.13 He saw this as a reflection of a practice of transliterating oriental words into Greek words that were easy to pronounce, like referring to Beijing as Peking in English. Noth failed to develop his argument any further. But the similarity between Palaistinê and palaistês would seem to have a significance deeper than a mere transliteration.

The name Israel arose from the incident in which Jacob wrestled with an angel (Genesis 32-25–27). Jacob received the name Israel (Yisra’el in Hebrew) because he “wrestled (sarita’) with the Lord (El).” In the Septuagint, the Greek verb epalaien (he wrestled) is used to describe Jacob’s struggle with the stranger.14 The etymological similarity between epalaien and Palaistinê raises the possibility that Palaistinê may somehow be linked to the name Israel through this Biblical episode.

Jacob’s wrestling with the angel, which explained the origin of the name of the people and of the Land of Israel, would have struck a chord among Greeks who came into direct contact with Jews in the Near East at least as early as the sixth century B.C.E.15 Greeks, well versed in the epics of their heroes, would have been intrigued by the Biblical explanation of the name Israel, as transmitted to them by Jews, probably in anecdotal form and almost certainly in Aramaic, the most widely spoken tongue in the Near East during the early classical period.16 The central event of a wrestling contest by the ancestor of this Semitic people against a divine adversary is likely to have made a deep impression on them.

...The striking similarity between the Greek word for “wrestler” (palaistês) and the name Palaistinê—which share seven letters in a row, including a diphthong—is strong evidence of a connection between them. Adding to this the resemblance of Palaistinê to Peleshet, it would appear that the name Palestine was coined as a pun on Israel and the Land of the Philistines. In Greek eyes, the people of Israel were descendants of an eponymous hero who was a god wrestler (a palaistês); the name wrestler also puns on the name of a similar-sounding people of the area known locally as Peleshet.

Apparently, the Greeks made a habit of translating place names rather than transliterating them. So this is a very compelling theory.

And if true, it proves again that the only indigenous Palestinians are Jews.

The name "Palestine" may be a literal Greek translation of Israel - and not so much derived from Philistines

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[surada]

It is understandable that some posters may confuse or deny the use of the word Palestinians, for a people, with the word Palestine, for a region in Ancient Canaan.

Which is it? Has a Palestinian identity and culture existed since a mass migration to Canaan 10,000 years ago, (was there such a mass migration?) or were they there since the time of Abraham, or are they a more modern creation after the Balfour Declaration, Mandate for PALESTINE, and Israel's Independence in 1948?

Was the identity created by Nasser in 1964 in Moscow with the help of the Soviet KGB? For what reason?

This is the thread to show Palestinian History before the Mandate for Palestine. The Palestinian Museum is rather silent about it.

The Palestinian Museum | The Palestinian Museum

www.palmuseum.org

Palestine, the region:

The word Palestine derives from the Greek word, Philistia, which dates to Ancient Greek writers' descriptions of the region in the 12th century B.C. Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I to 1948, Palestine typically referred to the geographic region located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. Arab people who call this territory home have been known as Palestinians since the early 20th century. Much of this land is now considered present-day Israel.

Scholars believe the name “Palestine” originally comes from the word “Philistia,” which refers to the Philistines who occupied part of the region in the 12th century B.C.

Throughout history, Palestine has been ruled by numerous groups, including the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Fatimids, Seljuk Turks, Crusaders, Egyptians and Mamelukes.

From about 1517 to 1917, the Ottoman Empire ruled much of the region.

Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY

Palestine is a small region of land in the eastern Mediterranean region that includes parts of modern Israel and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. It has played a prominent role in the ancient and modern history of the Middle East and has been marked by frequent...

www.history.com

Palestinians, the People:

The Formation of Palestinian Collective Identities: The Ottoman and Mandatory Periods on JSTOR

Baruch Kimmerling, The Formation of Palestinian Collective Identities: The Ottoman and Mandatory Periods, Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2 (Apr., 2000), pp. 48-81

www.jstor.org

PIJ.ORG: Reflections on Writing the History of Palestinian Identity By Issam Nassar

An independent publication, with an often critical voice, the Palestine-Israel Journal provides background material and in-depth analysis of various aspects of the conflict from the perspective of both sides, thus helping to shed light on the complex issues dividing Israelis and Palestinians and...

pij.org

Palestinians: Invented People

Both historically and in contemporary times, the Arabs living in the area now known as Palestine were regarded both by outsiders and by their own spokespeople as members of the greater Arab population

besacenter.org

Was there a Palestinian “national identity” prior to 1964?

From the blog of Alan Meyer at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

I cannot find one invader or visitor to the area who identified any of the population present as Palestinian. Any Arabs, Bedouin or Druze who might have called themselves or would be identified by that national identity by any of those invaders, visitors or inhabitants.

The Ottoman Census of 1831 to 1917 divides the population of the region as such:

https://psi424.cankaya.edu.tr/uploads/files/Shaw,%20Ott%20Census%20System%20and%20Pop,%201831-1914%20(1978).pdf

Thanks to all who join this conversation

Palestine has NOTHING to do with Philistia... That shows your author is ignorant. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC and known as Syria-Palestine by the Greek historian Herodotus.

Abraham was born in Urfa near Haran.. He was a Canaanite. There were Arabs in Palestine by the time of Abraham. The Akkadians had migrated to Palestine and Mesopotamia from Arabia 2,000 years before there were any Jews.

 

[surada]

Balkans, several Arab nations, Japan and a bunch of others.
Canaan conquered Shem and Sham came back and conquered Canaan.

The Jews were Canaanites from the northcoast of Syria. See Ras Shamra.

 

[Indeependent]

The Jews were Canaanites from the northcoast of Syria. See Ras Shamra.

Read Genesis, Chapter 10 and stop winging it with your bullshit.

 

[surada]

You’re leaving out all the nations whose borders and populations were moved post WWII and are still killing each other.

Nope.. They were moved after WW1 NOT WW2.. and the same people still live there. They didn't migrate from Europe and Russia.

 

[surada]

Read Genesis, Chapter 10 and stop winging it with your bullshit.

Genesis is a creation myth NOT history.

 

[Indeependent]

Nope.. They were moved after WW1 NOT WW2.. and the same people still live there. They didn't migrate from Europe and Russia.

Both WWI and WWII, moron.

 

[Indeependent]

Genesis is a creation myth NOT history.

Which is why you tried to use it as proof.
It's too late to delete that post you made.

 

[surada]

Which is why you tried to use it as proof.
It's too late to delete that post you made.

Do you believe in Genesis 10? Its not proof of anything.

 

[surada]

Indeependent

The Bible stories are terrific.. They just aren't history.

In the Bible, King Solomon is said to have been rich in precious metals, and to have used vast quantities of copper for features of his Jerusalem temple, such as the “molten sea,” a giant basin that rested on the backs of 12 metal oxen. But the phrase “King Solomon’s mines” actually appears nowhere in the Bible.
Is the Old Testament Historically Accurate? | History ...

An Archaeological Dig Reignites the Debate Over the Old Testament's Historical Accuracy

Beneath a desert in Israel, a scholar and his team are unearthing astonishing new evidence of an advanced society in the time of the biblical Solomon

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[surada]

Which is why you tried to use it as proof.
It's too late to delete that post you made.

Its proof of a silly myth..

 

[Sixties Fan]

Its proof of a silly myth..

Shall we spend any time dismantling any and all the myths from all of the tribes in Arabia?

Those are their Myths, THEIR history.

Are you ready to delegitimize any and all of them?

How about all the other tribes and nations of the world?

Their myths. Their history.

Let me know when we can start going one by one.

 

[surada]

Shall we spend any time dismantling any and all the myths from all of the tribes in Arabia?

Those are their Myths, THEIR history.

Are you ready to delegitimize any and all of them?

How about all the other tribes and nations of the world?

Their myths. Their history.

Let me know when we can start going one by one.

They have their myths as well.. like Eve being buried in Jedda.. But they don't take them seriously or use them to steal land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

They have their myths as well.. like Eve being buried in Jedda.. But they don't take them seriously or use them to steal land.

Mohammad and the angel Gabriel is a Myth.
That Mohammad was "chosen" to lead the third religion over the other two, is a myth.

He created a religion/ideology in order that Christianity would not take a hold of Arabia.

Those mythological beliefs of superiority, named Islam, led to the stealing of all of the land in Arabia, Mesopotamia, Ancient Canaan, North Africa, Southern Spain, Vienna, and anywhere else Islam went to and conquered.

Muslims take the myth of Islam and Allah very seriously.

Deadly seriously .

 

[Sixties Fan]

They have their myths as well.. like Eve being buried in Jedda.. But they don't take them seriously or use them to steal land.

It is a Myth.....that Arabs went on mass towards Ancient Canaan. You have shown no proof of it to this day. 10,000 years or 3800 years.

Nothing but a myth designed to steal the 20% left of the Jewish Homeland.